Signal North & the Hollie Grieg case: Opinions?

[sallycinnamon]

Singal North posted the following in another thread.

You try to expose sex offences committed by elites (inc Police Judiciary and Politicians) in Scottish Society against a girl with learning difficulties and you end up dead or in prison on a trumped up charges - google 'Hollie Grieg' for the story of the century that the media are too afraid to touch..

They think this story is going to go away but in fact it's going to go off like a political bomb

I had read about this case previously, as it is a few years old now, but has been prodded by the incarceration of Robert Green last week, for breach of the peace and harrasment. Robert Green has been a vociferous campaigner, not specifically for Hollie's case alone, but generally against what he sees as the acceptance/facilitation of paedophilia by high profile legal figures in Scotland.

Hollie Grieg was paid £13,500 by the Criminal Injuries Board. The CIB are unique in that they are able to make payments without a conviction, and even without anyone accused of a crime. They pay out based on injuries - emotional or physical - after an alleged crime.

The basic facts of the case are that 29 year old Hollie (who has Downs Syndrome) told her mother in 2000 that she had been sexually abused from the age of 6, for 14 years. Since then her mother has been campaigning for justice.

Her mother claims the abuse was carried out by an Aberdeen paedophile ring which included a senior police officer and a leading Scottish sheriff.

No charges have ever been brought: the reasons being "the decision was based on the lack of independent corroboration" as stated by Andrew McIntyre from the Scottish CPS.

There are a number of google pages, but if you read them in depth, they are either the official Hollie website, or linked to conspiracy websites such as aliens or Maddie McCann, rather than any actual reporting on the case.

So, if anyone is familiar with the case, what are your thoughts? Is there an enormous paedophile ring in Scotland that is influential enough to be able to impose a news blackout as such and prevent anyone being brought to justice? Or have these influential figures been targeted after Hollie was abused by members of her family? Or is it all a load of rubbish?

[signalnorth]

Sally even if it turns out that we don't agree on this I salute you for at least addressing the subject area. That is commendable.

[Hamble]

It more likely that CPS would not proceed with a prosecution as the victim has a mental incapacity.

Apart from very distressing to any child, proving historic sexual abuse on the word of a minor with a mental incapacity and no corrobative witness
is very difficult to secure a conviction.

[sallycinnamon]

Sally even if it turns out that we don't agree on this I salute you for at least addressing the subject area. That is commendable.

I think it's an interesting situation. Ive tried to keep my post impartial, rather than give an opinion, but often on Q you need to give an opinion so others have something to argue or play Devil's Advocate against. There's not a lot of free thinking here on subjects other than what people had for dinner - oops sorry - I mean tea

you were interested in the case enough to make your initial post, what made you want to comment about it: is it something you have been following?

[Albion102]

I have now wiled away more hours than I should have looking into the various claims and counter claims in this case.

It is very definitely placed (rightly or wrongly) in the weird part of the internet. It does not help Anne Greig's case that so many wacko websites seem associated with the cause. You are literally two clicks away from the "Jewish music industry reptiles killed Whitney, Michael Jackson, Alexander McQueen" websites. I kid you not.

Fascinating how many threads in recent days all seem to have the same sets of conspiracies running through them MMR/Autism, Iran. Whitney Houston, Hollie Grieg.

What did it for me was Robert Green claiming that whilst in session during one of his closed hearings, the judges were passing around documents covered in Freemasonary symbols.

For me - I'm afraid its nothing but a wacko conspiracy theory.

[signalnorth]

It more likely that CPS would not proceed with a prosecution as the victim has a mental incapacity.

Apart from very distressing to any child, proving historic sexual abuse on the word of a minor with a mental incapacity and no corrobative witness
is very difficult to secure a conviction.

The child had an STD, surely that at least says something about what has been done to her by somebody, whoever that may be.

And of course alarm bells go off to the fact that Anne's brother who we were told committed suicide by setting his car alight had been heavily beaten up beforehand - a fact that the Police tried to keep from everyone involved! When full disclosure isn't taking place you have to assume that it is for reasons of self interest

[Justlookin]

She had thrush. Thrush is a condition that can be transmitted sexually but is also a very common condition that anyone can get. babies are very often born with oral thrush, and people - mainly women - can develop it at any time whether they are sexually active or not. You can get it in your genital area, your mouth and even your armpit!

The brother's injuries were consistent with resucitation.

It's one of those cases where all of the basics of it can be looked at objectively or emotionally. Which option you choose results in what you believe. Albion's point about the Freemasons is a good one: once I read Robert Green's claims about that I realised he wasn't exactly a reliable source. Trouble with the internet is that anyone can start a website and say what they want about whatever subject they like, and if it looks professional enough, there's always people who will believe it.

I put Robert Green in the same sort of league of journalism as Roger Blaxall to be honest.

[Nomad]

Interesting to see that the official site has links to David Icke's, and his campaign against satanism in childcare. I noted particularly his advice for those wanting to find a nest of paedophiles and satanism to look no further than everywhere. On past form, he presumably isn't restricting the search just to this planet.

The old chestnut about satanism in childcare has caused more harm than good. Anyone who follows the Eye will be aware of the activities of the self proclaimed experts of the Committee on Ritual Abuse. Many will recall the Orkney scandal of the 1990s.

I don't know all the facts of the case, so my opinion is based on the balance of probability, rather than beyond reasonable doubt. With that caveat, I would suggest that anyone who presents links to a variety of dubious websites and unsubstantiated allegations rather than supporting hard facts probably has an unbalanced case.

[signalnorth]

Some relevant info....


http://holliedemandsjustice.org/faq/

Quote:
"A. After years of Hollie’s medical notes being withheld from her, when finally Anne laid hands on them in October 2009 she found amongst them two important items of evidence, both dating back to the early ‘90s, when Hollie was a pupil at Beechwood Special School in Aberdeen:

Memo from Dr Paul Carter, Beechwood School Doctor, to Dr S J Wilson, Grampian Health Board Community Services, 5 July 1990, indicating that Hollie then aged 10 had contracted perianal warts, a sexually-transmitted condition, and referring to her as an ‘at risk’ child;
Letter from Dr Paul Carter, then Senior Clinical Medical Officer at Grampian Health Board Priority Services Unit, Community/Acute Services Division, to Dr James Maitland, Hollie’s GP, 3 February 1992, “giving a little background on Hollie”, eg., Hollie had been suffering from pain on passing water and lower abdominal discomfort for 2 or 3 years and had been exhibiting signs of having had sexual experience. However she had never disclosed to him, Dr Carter, any details of this. [This was because she had been terrorised into silence about the abuse she was suffering].
It should be noted that neither of the above doctors were named by Hollie as abusers but her head teacher was, and Dr Maitland is certainly implicated in the cover-up. Dr Carter (now retired) when questioned recently about what had gone on at Beechwood School and in particular with Hollie expressed mortification that his attempts to alert the school and family had failed.

Anne suspects that the medical records are not complete and that even more damning (to the paedophiles) evidence could have been removed.

As well as this ‘historic’ evidence, there is forensic evidence dating from an examination carried out on Hollie on 20th May 2000, shortly after Hollie and Anne first began reporting the abuse at Bucksburn Police Station. The examination took the form of an internal examination conducted by Dr Frances Kelly, forensic medical examiner to Grampian police (semi-retired) who found “evidence of previous penetration of Hollie’s private parts”. At the time Hollie had only so far mentioned her father and brother as the perpetrators of the abuse. The examination by Dr Kelly is referred to in a letter from DI Iain Alley, Criminal Investigation Division, Aberdeen Police to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, 24 September 2003.

There are also 2 reports dating from 2001 and 2003 respectively written by well-known and eminent experts in the field of clinical psychology, both of whom interviewed Hollie and came to the same conclusions that a) she was a truthful girl and not making anything up and b) she had indeed been abused and that in their professional opinion it was plausible and probable that her abusers had been multiple."



As for the injuries to Anne's brother, I think I'm correct in saying he had a broken sternum and broken ribs, it is claimed these were caused during attempts to resuscitate him. It is possible but highly unlikely.

[Nomad]

Some relevant info....


http://holliedemandsjustice.org/faq/


As for the injuries to Anne's brother, I think I'm correct in saying he had a broken sternum and broken ribs, it is claimed these were caused during attempts to resuscitate him. It is possible but highly unlikely.

I've deleted the quote from the website for space reasons.

In following the link, I noticed that the website lists qualifications held by both persons who are said to have performed physical examinations. Curiously, neither of them seem to hold medical qualifications.

On the plus side, I chalked up two more googlewhacks with their names and listed qualifications.

[Justlookin]

So, there is medical evidence (from non-qualified examiners) that Hollie did have sexual intercourse. Whether that was abuse or not, it (likely) occured.

Hollie was only naming her own family members as the abusers. My dilemma is working out where these High ranking Scottish officials came into the picture and when.

[tinseltoes]

i cant help thinking this Sounds like the new title for the next Harry Potter film.....thats just my humble opinion! As you were! x

[terrie]

i cant help thinking this Sounds like the new title for the next Harry Potter film.....thats just my humble opinion! As you were! x

Not much thought gone into this
Stick to other threads?
Sorry if that sounds pompous but this thread material is serious, not something that warrants throw away remarks.

[sallycinnamon]

Not much thought gone into this
Stick to other threads?
Sorry if that sounds pompous but this thread material is serious, not something that warrants throw away remarks.

It happens a lot on here when people don't have anything to contribute but don't like to be left out of any thread. It's like trolling but at it's most basic level. That's not aimed at TT specifically before she starts.

[Nomad]

So, there is medical evidence (from non-qualified examiners) that Hollie did have sexual intercourse. Whether that was abuse or not, it (likely) occured.

If the examiners aren't medically qualified, their evidence isn't medical but a matter of uninformed opinion. Dr Carter's qualifications identify him as a psychologist, whilst the letters after "Dr" Kelly's name indicate no formal qualifications whatsoever.

Are we to believe that Grampian Police would use an unqualified layperson as a forensic examiner? I'm quite old fashioned in lots of ways, including a judgement on whether a crime has been committed relying on more than the statement that "it (likely) occurred."

[Albion102]

The bit I don't get - and I do realise that people with Downs have greatly varying capacity. Hollie was able name 20 high ranking Scottish officials. How did she do this, did she already know them in another capacity, or did they formally introduce themselves because abusing her. Could they have been other abusers pretending to be those officials. Or were they suggested to her by her mother who has serious mental health problems.

These are all questions that the court would be asking

[signalnorth]

The bit I don't get - and I do realise that people with Downs have greatly varying capacity. Hollie was able name 20 high ranking Scottish officials. How did she do this, did she already know them in another capacity, or did they formally introduce themselves because abusing her. Could they have been other abusers pretending to be those officials. Or were they suggested to her by her mother who has serious mental health problems.

These are all questions that the court would be asking

Her Mother has no mental health problems and has never had any mental health problems.

[signalnorth]

If the examiners aren't medically qualified,.........

.....Are we to believe that Grampian Police would use an unqualified layperson as a forensic examiner? I'm quite old fashioned in lots of ways, including a judgement on whether a crime has been committed relying on more than the statement that "it (likely) occurred."

DR Kelly is a GP - I think that rates as qualified in anyones books!