The EU Army.

[Hamble]

Glad the UK will be out of this.
It is enough stress watching The Eurovision Song Contest Voting loyalty's in battle.


Quote

.23 EU countries, including Germany and France, have agreed to integrate their defense forces. The pact will be made legally binding when it is signed in December.
• Combined armed forces were first proposed 70 years ago but the UK, who is now leaving the bloc, resisted the move.
• Many governments say Russia’s seizure of Ukraine’s Crimea in 2014 was a turning point.
• The UK, Ireland, Portugal and Malta have not agreed to the deal.



BRUSSELS (Reuters) - France and Germany edged toward achieving a 70-year-old ambition to integrate European defenses on Monday, signing a pact with 21 other EU governments to fund, develop and deploy armed forces after Britain’s decision to quit the bloc.

First proposed in the 1950s and long resisted by Britain, European defense planning, operations and weapons development now stands its best chance in years as London steps aside and the United States pushes Europe to pay more for its security.

Foreign and defense ministers gathered at a signing ceremony in Brussels to represent 23 EU governments joining the pact, paving the way for EU leaders to sign it in December.

Those governments will for the first time legally bind themselves into joint projects as well as pledging to increase defense spending and contribute to rapid deployments.

“Today we are taking a historic step,” Germany’s Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel told reporters. “We are agreeing on the future cooperation on security and defense issues ... it’s really a milestone in European development,” he said.

The pact includes all EU governments except Britain, which is leaving the bloc, Denmark, which has opted out of defense matters, Ireland, Portugal and Malta. Traditionally neutral Austria was a late addition to the pact."



http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-cou...7-11?r=US&IR=T

[Albion102]

Even as a remainer, I would say that continental Europe has a different sort of defence and internal security priorities to the UK.

[The PNP]

A logical next step for Europe, which Russia will certainly have foreseen.....Hence their 'assistance' last year towards achieving a divide and conquer result via Brexit.

N.B. With U.K. outside the E.U., our defence industry can kiss goodbye to any thoughts of supplying systems/hardware to mainland Europe. Expect France and Germany will be picking up all those lucrative defence contracts now.

[Ceam]

Even as a remainer, I would say that continental Europe has a different sort of defence and internal security priorities to the UK.

Seconded, Not a great move IMHO.

Only thing is if it does go ahead, Is it good that we are out of it and have no influence over it?

[Hamble]

It will not work politically or religiously in multi cultural Continental Europe.

In fact I could see it ending up as a mostly white Christian army asking for a German dictator.

[rare-pepe999]

Glad the UK will be out of this.
It is enough stress watching The Eurovision Song Contest Voting loyalty's in battle.


Quote

.23 EU countries, including Germany and France, have agreed to integrate their defense forces. The pact will be made legally binding when it is signed in December.
• Combined armed forces were first proposed 70 years ago but the UK, who is now leaving the bloc, resisted the move.
• Many governments say Russia’s seizure of Ukraine’s Crimea in 2014 was a turning point.
• The UK, Ireland, Portugal and Malta have not agreed to the deal.



BRUSSELS (Reuters) - France and Germany edged toward achieving a 70-year-old ambition to integrate European defenses on Monday, signing a pact with 21 other EU governments to fund, develop and deploy armed forces after Britain’s decision to quit the bloc.

First proposed in the 1950s and long resisted by Britain, European defense planning, operations and weapons development now stands its best chance in years as London steps aside and the United States pushes Europe to pay more for its security.

Foreign and defense ministers gathered at a signing ceremony in Brussels to represent 23 EU governments joining the pact, paving the way for EU leaders to sign it in December.

Those governments will for the first time legally bind themselves into joint projects as well as pledging to increase defense spending and contribute to rapid deployments.

“Today we are taking a historic step,” Germany’s Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel told reporters. “We are agreeing on the future cooperation on security and defense issues ... it’s really a milestone in European development,” he said.

The pact includes all EU governments except Britain, which is leaving the bloc, Denmark, which has opted out of defense matters, Ireland, Portugal and Malta. Traditionally neutral Austria was a late addition to the pact."



http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-cou...7-11?r=US&IR=T

Its a dangerous fantasy

[Toodles McGinty]

As with most things regarding the EU, I'm split on this one.

I'm not sure that we are secure enough as a member of NATO that the USA, and it's current leader, would have our back should push come to shove. So being part of a larger military force would be to our advantage, particularly with Russia's interference in, basically, everything.

Without the 'EU army', with Russia's current policy of divide and conquer, are we vulnerable out in the cold? Or are we better off not being involved in Russia's assault on the west? Not sure we can avoid that, in or out of the EU.

I suppose whichever one would stop our troops being dragged into America's next oil grab in the middle east would be the one I'd choose. The situation with Iran is becoming more and more ominous. As I've mentioned before, the Saudis and Israel are bizarrely unified in their determination to push the USA into conflict with Iran. I don't fancy our boys and girls being killed in another illegal war.

It seems we are under potential threat from many sides at a time when nobody really has a clue what kind of country we'll be after Brexit.

[Hamble]

[QUOTE=Toodles McGinty;6618994]

As I've mentioned before, the Saudis and Israel are bizarrely unified in their determination to push the USA into conflict with Iran. I don't fancy our boys and girls being killed in another illegal war.


Iran has stated her intentions to annihilate Israel.

USA under Obama has put a faith and trust in Iran far more than Russia the Saudi's and Israel can equal or tolerate.


In all scenario's of war Britain would ally with any country but Iran?

[rare-pepe999]

Russia's interference in, basically, everything.

This is a fabrication by the liberal media

[said]

This is a fabrication by the liberal media

Of course it is!

[said]

As with most things regarding the EU, I'm split on this one.

I'm not sure that we are secure enough as a member of NATO that the USA, and it's current leader, would have our back should push come to shove. So being part of a larger military force would be to our advantage, particularly with Russia's interference in, basically, everything.

Without the 'EU army', with Russia's current policy of divide and conquer, are we vulnerable out in the cold? Or are we better off not being involved in Russia's assault on the west? Not sure we can avoid that, in or out of the EU.

I suppose whichever one would stop our troops being dragged into America's next oil grab in the middle east would be the one I'd choose. The situation with Iran is becoming more and more ominous. As I've mentioned before, the Saudis and Israel are bizarrely unified in their determination to push the USA into conflict with Iran. I don't fancy our boys and girls being killed in another illegal war.

It seems we are under potential threat from many sides at a time when nobody really has a clue what kind of country we'll be after Brexit.

The American people did not want America involved in WW2, they had to be conned by Roosevelt to persuade them to do so. Since the Americans have a poor history of success in war, it may be better if they were not around. NATO is simply another arm of the USA and funded by the USA. It is not independent. Israel is also funded by the USA - in the form of overseas aid, of which it receives a high percentage from the states. The Arab states although not totally friendly to Iran, would stick by Iran in preference to being allied to the USA. The Arab states have always been in conflict for hundreds of years - America only became involved in the late 1970's, when their oil supplies began running short. The Arabs may be living behind the times, but they are far from stupid - they take advantage of an 'ally' while its suits them to do so. Germany has been gathering elitist troops from several countries for the past year or more. Other EU countries have signed over the loan of their best troops to Germany - but in that agreement, it is stated that German troops can never be loaned to any other country. In addition to that - German troops have certain advantages drafted in their employment in which they can choose to opt out if they disagreed with any involvement in any particular war. The other member troops could not do that. It is considered that such an army is being gathered for one purpose only - it would be impossible to expect i.e. such an army to go in to say, Algeria if it had to - because there are French soldiers involved in the EU army. Who would be the overall General of this army? Would the other countries agree to one particular General? One guess is that this general would be of German origin. How would each particular army manage in an emergency situation - with each speaking different languages? This point was made by a British soldier who has experience of working with overseas army personnel - he said it was a complete disaster. Today's leaders of any of the EU members are not strong. Most of the previous decisions made by them while we have been in the EU have been ill advised to say the least - how would they fare in a war situation? Russia, on the other hand has a much stronger leader and a far stronger cabinet - the huge majority of them are experienced fighting personnel and their success in war is well documented. The UK has signed up to three different treaties - meaning that in the unlikely event of a war - there are several countries who would support the UK.

[said]

It will not work politically or religiously in multi cultural Continental Europe.

In fact I could see it ending up as a mostly white Christian army asking for a German dictator.

That is what the EU is - it is a libertarian dictatorship.

[rolling-thunder]

One of the scenarios for a future War involved France & Germany teaming up & invading the UK. Had we stayed in & reached the point of a integrated Army, it is entirely possible that this figment of imagination might have happened had we then voted to leave the EU?
While I wasn't against being part of the EU, I voted to leave because I could see where we were going. Once you start to integrate, it makes it all but impossible to leave. We would end up as part of a Federal Europe using the same voting system as the Eurovision Song contest. While Europe was for the mutual benefit of each Country involved under a Common market with in the European economic Community, I tolerated the rules made by Brussels.
I understand difficult times are ahead for the UK due to not being prepared for the result of the vote, I understand people are frustrated with the seeming lack of progress but the very same organisations who are telling us a unified Armed Force is a bad idea are the same people who are telling us that Europe is a good idea. We receive no impartial advice from our media so all I could use in making my decision is what has happened in the past & what is currently happening thanks to Europe & it's imposed rules. A unified Armed force would make the security of the UK even weaker. If our boarders or interests were threatened would we be allowed to use our Armed Forces without the permission of a European Parliament? I see some difficulties

[Toodles McGinty]

This is a fabrication by the liberal media

Really? You refute the Russian involvement in the US election, in our election, even though Theresa May just built a speech around it? Facebook admitted it?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/87...utin-cyber-BBC

https://news.sky.com/story/fake-twit...ussia-11126843

You call the Prime Minister, the Express and Sky 'Liberal Media'?

What do you call an unbiased publication, 'Britain First Daily'?