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  1. Published on: 12/01/2018 07:41 AMReported by: roving-eye


    Sefton Council’s 50 highest paid officers could be in line for bumper pay rises following Labour councillors agreeing a controversial provision in the Council’s draft new Pay Policy at a meeting on Thursday. The officers affected are on salaries of between £46,700 and £139,900 a year.

    The proposal came under attack from senior Lib Dem councillor Simon Shaw who attended the meeting concerned. He opposed the Labour-supported move to give a role on deciding pay rises for top council officers to the private sector Hay Group, a global management consulting firm.

    The controversial proposal is clause 20 in the draft Sefton Council Pay Policy http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/moderngo...amendments.pdf

    This relates to “Senior Officers Pay” (defined as those earning £50,000 and above) and states: ‘Each year the HAY Group are consulted as to what is an appropriate pay rise. The HAY Group advise based on predicted awards in the general market (Public and Private Sector), the amount of inflation, and the Retail Prices Index. This is also balanced against the National Joint Council Pay award and the ability of the Council to meet the pay bill.’

    Cllr Shaw expressed his concern, saying “I am at a loss to understand why this Labour-controlled council feels it should pay a multi-national consultancy firm to tell it how much extra it should pay its most senior officers each year. Labour claim to be opposed to galloping pay increases among private sector bosses, but now want to emulate them for its own senior officers.”

    “I’ve checked the Pay Policies for neighbouring councils and none of them has any provision like this. That’s why I proposed that the clause should be revised so that Sefton Council should simply follow the National Joint Council line on pay – that’s agreed nationally between local government employers and the unions.”

    “That seemed totally logical and correct to me, but bizarrely, it was opposed by the Labour members of the Committee.”

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  3. Username2016 says:12/01/2018 11:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by roving-eye View Post
    [
    The controversial proposal is clause 20 in the draft Sefton Council Pay Policy http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/moderngo...amendments.pdf

    This relates to “Senior Officers Pay” (defined as those earning £50,000 and above) and states: ‘Each year the HAY Group are consulted as to what is an appropriate pay rise. The HAY Group advise based on predicted awards in the general market (Public and Private Sector), the amount of inflation, and the Retail Prices Index. This is also balanced against the National Joint Council Pay award and the ability of the Council to meet the pay bill.’
    The HAY method (via the Hay Group) is an internationally known method of deciding job pay structures based on a point system of the roles and responsibilities.....Cllr Shaw is locally known <>

    I hope Cllr Shaw knows that Sefton Council has been working with the HAY method (as have other councils since at least 2012): e.g.:

    http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/document...0-%20Annex.pdf

    It's odd that he's upset that the council are using external factors and metrics to decide pay, does he want to have the councillors themselves dictating pay. They also only "consult" rather than dictate pay.

    I don't get what's controversial this year about it and he seems to overlook:

    In addition, local authorities must provide a list of responsibilities (for example, the services and functions the postholder is responsible for and details of bonuses and ‘benefits-in-kind’, for all employees whose salary exceeds £50,000.
    and

    The Employment Procedure Committee will decide on the remuneration packages for Senior Officer in cases where the proposed remuneration is over £100,000. This will be debated at the point when the decision to fill the post is made. A recommendation will then be made to the Full Council who will have the opportunity to vote on the remuneration proposed. The remuneration must be agreed prior to an appointment offer being made.
    Definitely far too much wastage in local council (including the constant mudslinging) but just feels like more divisive politics from the Libs as none of the statements say why it's linked to a bumper rise and why consulting an internationally recognised method who even the NJC consult means they’ve handed the decisions over, wonder what Prasnee thinks.
    Last edited by Username2016; 12/01/2018 at 11:35 AM.

  4. nosobored says:12/01/2018 01:20 PM
    Sefton parasites,,Look at the real face of socialism and its gravy train or corruption ..

  5. Seashells&sand says:12/01/2018 05:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Username2016 View Post
    The HAY method (via the Hay Group) is an internationally known method of deciding job pay structures based on a point system of the roles and responsibilities.....Cllr Shaw is locally known <>

    I hope Cllr Shaw knows that Sefton Council has been working with the HAY method (as have other councils since at least 2012): e.g.:

    http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/document...0-%20Annex.pdf

    It's odd that he's upset that the council are using external factors and metrics to decide pay, does he want to have the councillors themselves dictating pay. They also only "consult" rather than dictate pay.

    I don't get what's controversial this year about it and he seems to overlook:



    and



    Definitely far too much wastage in local council (including the constant mudslinging) but just feels like more divisive politics from the Libs as none of the statements say why it's linked to a bumper rise and why consulting an internationally recognised method who even the NJC consult means they’ve handed the decisions over, wonder what Prasnee thinks.
    I dont think most residents care WHO decides pay, only that its an obscene amount of money. Particularly sickening when Labour constantly refer to the low paid, food banks and unfairness in the distribution of wealth. I'm sick of all this bickering between parties, its amateurish.

  6. Username2016 says:12/01/2018 05:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Seashells&sand View Post
    I dont think most residents care WHO decides pay, only that its an obscene amount of money. Particularly sickening when Labour constantly refer to the low paid, food banks and unfairness in the distribution of wealth. I'm sick of all this bickering between parties, its amateurish.
    Agreed, this article is a fine example of a petty local councillor stirring up trouble as in the report it does not once state the pay will increase and I don't get his issue with asking independent industry experts to put in an internationally recognised framework, the same consultants who work with his beloved NJC and happen to work with Bristol, Leicester, Blackpool, Southwark as an example so it's hardly a conspiracy to use renegade consultants to advise on salary benchmarks, they've actually been doing this since at least 2012 so why has he only decided to raise this now as surely the "bumper rises" would have come in then too?

    http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/document...0-%20Annex.pdf

    Cllr Shaw comes across as a bitter amateur politician and his measures along with his colleagues/exiled colleagues of the Libs against the world on our behalf will only continue to be a bitter race to the bottom, my disappointment is that their supplemented party leaders and the council leaders haven't reigned this in as it cannot be in the best interest of the people.

    You also have to look how they operate with the locals, for example this lovely way of debating an argument:



    Or the whole debacle with the Kew Playground....Or the constant jumping on Barton threads to try and undermine him (when he probably does a lot of that himself)

    Shows how effective and interested they are in the town's best interests versus rosettes/egos.

    It will be interesting to see who they nominate as their next PCC....

  7. salus.populi says:12/01/2018 07:27 PM
    At the same time as bragging about his long career in local politics he's basically admitted he's been unaware that this has been in the pay policy for years.

  8. Username2016 says:12/01/2018 07:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by salus.populi View Post
    At the same time as bragging about his long career in local politics he's basically admitted he's been unaware that this has been in the pay policy for years.
    Worrying for a man representing on the "Pay and Grading Committee" you'd have thought he'd read up on the policies and pay methods before launching another divisive Lib Press release, have to question whether he's being a bit complacent there:

    http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/moderngo...o.aspx?UID=242

    Launching this now, regardless of using "could" feels like bitter and divisive politics but we don't really expect much more.

    Interesting whether the Libs have told Prasnee to keep it down for becoming an embarrassment to the party or not though.

  9. local says:12/01/2018 08:37 PM
    So council appoints pay review body who are they likely to appoint ?

    a. Someone who will question their efficiency, pay levels and recommend reductions ?



    b. Someone who will waffle but give you what you want ?

  10. salus.populi says:12/01/2018 08:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Username2016 View Post

    Interesting whether the Libs have told Prasnee to keep it down for becoming an embarrassment to the party or not though.
    I don't think it's a coincidence that Prasnee's disappearance from here has coincided with a marked increase in Simon Shaw's comments on the other site's Facebook page.
    The writing style and tone are very familiar.

  11. Username2016 says:12/01/2018 10:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by salus.populi View Post
    I don't think it's a coincidence that Prasnee's disappearance from here has coincided with a marked increase in Simon Shaw's comments on the other site's Facebook page.
    The writing style and tone are very familiar.
    Wonder if he’s lining himself to be their next candidate for MP given Tony is in exile for his selfish politics.

    Do wonder if we’ll see an article from the Labour Party saying “Senior Lib Dem Councillor sits on a committee but could be not aware of the policies”. It’s almost like the self styled “health watchdog” Tony Dawson giving NHS advice on the WannaCry virus (which when challenged later on trawling the Kew Playground campaigners Facebook said he wasn’t “techy” enough)
    Last edited by Username2016; 12/01/2018 at 10:22 PM.


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