Originally Posted by ausard2

The warden has total support from me and like it's been said
attitude of culprit was not good.
I believe this now should be a case of public put up
and shut .
This guy runs a motor cycle school , definitely give that place amiss.
Funny how there just happened to be someone to video it.

I'm with you on this - a large part of driver/rider training involves remaining calm and in control in stressful situations.
This chap could learn a lot from the Enforcement Officer.

However, that being said, once the circumstances of the situation had been explained and, crucially, evidence of there still being cigarettes in the pack shown then the Officer should have left it there.
The behaviour of the person dropping the pack is of no relevance to the offence of littering. It can't be seen that behaviour, whatever form it takes, has a bearing on deciding whether or not the evidential hurdle has been cleared.
In that respect the Officer did not behave correctly and therefore was not 'doing his job'.

Originally Posted by gazaprop

I'm with you on this - a large part of driver/rider training involves remaining calm and in control in stressful situations.
This chap could learn a lot from the Enforcement Officer.

However, that being said, once the circumstances of the situation had been explained and, crucially, evidence of there still being cigarettes in the pack shown then the Officer should have left it there.
The behaviour of the person dropping the pack is of no relevance to the offence of littering. It can't be seen that behaviour, whatever form it takes, has a bearing on deciding whether or not the evidential hurdle has been cleared.
In that respect the Officer did not behave correctly and therefore was not 'doing his job'.

Presumably the alleged evidence of cigarettes in pack was shown off camera, or shown before the camera suddenly turned on, half way through the argument. I know had I been the accused, I would be flashing the packet in FULL view of the camera continually. Often it is the lack of evidence that is the most valuable evidence.
I strongly doubt there were any cigarettes in the packet, only due to knowing I would have shown of them if they existed, and I know most people I know would too.

It should be the case that whenever one of these litter wardens sees someone dropping something they should politely ask them to pick it up and dispose of it correctly. The object of the exercise is surely to reduce litter after all so asking someone to pick their litter up fulfils the object of the exercise.

But when services like this are outsourced to the lowest bidder what you get is any opportunity for them to increase revenue being taken. The warden is probably on low pay with a target to reach which will trigger a bonus. His boss will also probably be on a bonus if all his staff hit their targets meaning each warden will be put under presure to achieve those targets. The bosses boss will also probably be on a bonus if everyone under him hits their targets. It's a glorified pyramid scheme where common sense in dealing with the public goes out of the window. That said there is no need to be abusive to anyone that's simply doing their job.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rette-box.html


no news is good news ?

For goodness sake its the ground not the floor !!!!

Originally Posted by ainsdale local

For goodness sake its the ground not the floor !!!!

It was a DECK of cigarettes that hit ground zero.....

Council officials are easy targets but people should think more, nobody spends their childhood dreaming of being a council worker.
They aren't there for the money and would surely work elsewhere if they could so give them a break.
It must be hard waking up each day knowing your going to get wet and cold doing a thankless task for little money.

Originally Posted by local

Council officials are easy targets but people should think more, nobody spends their childhood dreaming of being a council worker.
They aren't there for the money and would surely work elsewhere if they could so give them a break.
It must be hard waking up each day knowing your going to get wet and cold doing a thankless task for little money.

I think it's a perfectly good job, Certainly not thankless.

Abide by the rules and you'll never have an issue with them.

I see it like this.

The chap drops his fags, the warden comes over to try and suggest an obvious accident is a conscious action of littering, the victim is dumbfounded into slightly raising his voice and tone out of sheer disbelief knowing full well that the objective of the warden is to twist the situation into a ticketable offence.
The victim now in a higher state of anxiety with his slightly raised voice attempts to explain clearly his mistake showing good reasoning why it occurred and made it obvious to the warden that he would be at a loss if he had chosen to discard his expensive cigarettes.

THEN AFTER THAT

That wasn't good enough for the warden as he would not have been able to issue a ticket as if the ticket and fine could have easily been overturned once the chap had appealed to someone that would with good reason accept the truth of the matter.

So the warden accused him of abuse which I believe is another tactic to secure a conviction... then the chap in TOTAL disbelief let his calm slip... as anyone would do after being goaded.
Once the warden had manipulated the mood to be sure of a conviction he then reported as such to the boss stating that he would of walked away if no abuse had occurred...( suggesting he had been reasonable) after he had instigated the abuse by suggesting the chap was abusing him when at that point he was not.

I just think the warden thought he had found an easy target out of a blatant mistake and its lucky that warden chose a reasonable biker that trains people and saves lives other than an outlaw one that would have had him sat in the marine lake spitting his teeth out.

Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY

I see it like this.

The chap drops his fags, the warden comes over to try and suggest an obvious accident is a conscious action of littering, the victim is dumbfounded into slightly raising his voice and tone out of sheer disbelief knowing full well that the objective of the warden is to twist the situation into a ticketable offence.
The victim now in a higher state of anxiety with his slightly raised voice attempts to explain clearly his mistake showing good reasoning why it occurred and made it obvious to the warden that he would be at a loss if he had chosen to discard his expensive cigarettes.

THEN AFTER THAT

That wasn't good enough for the warden as he would not have been able to issue a ticket as if the ticket and fine could have easily been overturned once the chap had appealed to someone that would with good reason accept the truth of the matter.

So the warden accused him of abuse which I believe is another tactic to secure a conviction... then the chap in TOTAL disbelief let his calm slip... as anyone would do after being goaded.
Once the warden had manipulated the mood to be sure of a conviction he then reported as such to the boss stating that he would of walked away if no abuse had occurred...( suggesting he had been reasonable) after he had instigated the abuse by suggesting the chap was abusing him when at that point he was not.

I just think the warden thought he had found an easy target out of a blatant mistake and its lucky that warden chose a reasonable biker that trains people and saves lives other than an outlaw one that would have had him sat in the marine lake spitting his teeth out.

Think you watched a different video to me.

Originally Posted by Ceam

I think it's a perfectly good job, Certainly not thankless.

Abide by the rules and you'll never have an issue with them.

Its the sort of thing you do when you can't get anything else surely ?

I never have an issue with them, more feel sorry for them.

Originally Posted by local

Its the sort of thing you do when you can't get anything else surely ?

I never have an issue with them, more feel sorry for them.

So because it's a job you wouldn't like to do it's Something you would only do if you could get nothing else?

Strange concept. But I guess we are all entitled to our opinions.

I struggle to believe anyone would want to do the job it is truly a dead end job, poor pay,poor working conditions,little room for advancement,very low esteem, the list is long.
Without them chaos would reign pretty quickly in some areas no doubt.
I do genuinely feel for them it is a rather public demonstration of failure in career and life.
People should remember this whilst getting agitated about a ticket levied because of a system implemented by Liberal Democrat Councillors.
Don't kick a person while their down.

Originally Posted by local

I struggle to believe anyone would want to do the job it is truly a dead end job, poor pay,poor working conditions,little room for advancement,very low esteem, the list is long.
Without them chaos would reign pretty quickly in some areas no doubt.
I do genuinely feel for them it is a rather public demonstration of failure in career and life.
People should remember this whilst getting agitated about a ticket levied because of a system implemented by Liberal Democrat Councillors.
Don't kick a person while their down.

Any other jobs you feel the same way about? I can think of plenty that full fill your criteria. All needed to make a social structure we want to live in.

Originally Posted by Ceam

Any other jobs you feel the same way about? I can think of plenty that full fill your criteria. All needed to make a social structure we want to live in.

Yes I have already put that above;

"Without them chaos would reign pretty quickly in some areas no doubt"