Originally Posted by cotton man

Because dogs bite, they will bite people and other dogs.

Not too long ago a lady doctor was walking her dog in a park off Liverpool Road Ainsdale when she and her dog sustained serious bite injuries by a three dogs with a male owner who was unable to control his dogs. As usual the male "responsible owner" left the area as soon as the serious injuries were seen and people came to the lady doctors aid. As I understand she had to go to hospital and very expensive vets bills had to be paid.

None of this would have happened if all dogs were muzzled. Incidentally all dogs in public places in Poland have to be on a lead and muzzled.

I hope this answers your question.

Agreed, should be law! I once faced an Agentinian DogoSimo (classified as one of the most dangerous dogs in the world, banned in the UK). Dragged me fifty yards in an instant and took a second 9mm to drop it.....

Originally Posted by Ruler!1

High energy working dogs are not suitable for home life - i would imagine the ones you are talking about are gun dogs and cattle dogs - both of which gain exercise from their working life on the farms !

The law is not to never let your dog have exercise - just to keep them on the lead in public areas !! The beach already has a restriction on it as does Victoria park - although dog owners ignore this !

Freedom from fear and distress - many dogs are fearful of their own kind or have been attacked by others ! If dogs were kept on a lead around others - dog attacks would be reduced !! As to the RSPCA freedoms - you will find most of those are broken by dog owners anyway. How many owners have just one dog ? How many live in a tiny flat or house ? How many owners treat their dogs like children and not dogs and therefore don't like it when they actually act like dogs ??

You don't see the problem of letting your dog off the lead at Kew ? It is a playing field where children and adults play - not a dog walking field !! There is also waterfowl on that field due to the nearby waterways.

As for the dunes - how many dogs have gone missing over there because they have run from their owners sight or have chased a rabbit !

You strike me as a very arrogant and inconsiderate dog owner !

Many dog owners are lazy and take their dogs for a walk on the nearest green space regardless of its use ! They can't be bothered taking them far. Many also can't be bothered training their dogs and assume a dog will behave without any training ! It is why you see so many 2 year old + dogs in kennels - because they reach the troublesome age and owners wonder why they are mis-behaving after being left to their own devices !!

A dog is a dog and not a child !!

You don't know me at all so how you can class me as an arrogant and inconsiderate dog owner I don't know. You strike me as a very shouty person. Not EVERY sentence has to end with an exclamation mark.

Dog owners should have to pass their Kennel Club Good Citizen test and pet owners should have to have their male dogs castrated. It is these dogs who are still entire that cause problems, no doubt owned by "macho" men who think it will cause themselves to become less masculine if their dog is castrated.

I am not being penalised because of inconsiderate dog owners. My dog is well behaved and under control and I have pockets stuffed with poo bags to pick up after him whilst out on a walk, therefore negating any risk to co-users of playing fields and other green spaces.

People can have any breed of dog they wish to have. So you are saying that people shouldn't keep Jack Russells, Labradors, Spaniels, Poodles, German Shepherds, Collies etc as pets. These are all working breeds and also good family pets and happen to have a high tolerance for exercise including running free, not just plodding around the streets on the end of a lead. If dogs being off lead in public places becomes the law then police dogs, farm dogs and gun dogs won't be able to do their jobs!

I do not treat my dog like a child, he is a dog and is allowed to act like a dog and interact with other dogs whilst he is off lead on a walk. Yes, he has been "attacked" by other dogs during his life but this had not made him anxious or fearful. It is the reaction of the owner that makes the dog fearful.

Anyway, I am off for a nice, long, off lead walk with my dog to the field now and hope those inconsiderate footballers are not on there. You should see the state they leave the field in when they have finished playing their ridiculous game. Empty bottles, carrier bags, long strands of sticky tape, old socks, bandages, food wrappers and other detritus. So, they are far from perfect but you seem to support their actions.

Originally Posted by Dutchgirl

You are clearly in the minority in my experience. I take exception to running dogs free when one finds pleasure in running up and humping my leg!

Stop wearing your Dutch Cap and they won't bother.

Originally Posted by aqua31

You don't know me at all so how you can class me as an arrogant and inconsiderate dog owner I don't know. You strike me as a very shouty person. Not EVERY sentence has to end with an exclamation mark.

Dog owners should have to pass their Kennel Club Good Citizen test and pet owners should have to have their male dogs castrated. It is these dogs who are still entire that cause problems, no doubt owned by "macho" men who think it will cause themselves to become less masculine if their dog is castrated.

I am not being penalised because of inconsiderate dog owners. My dog is well behaved and under control and I have pockets stuffed with poo bags to pick up after him whilst out on a walk, therefore negating any risk to co-users of playing fields and other green spaces.

People can have any breed of dog they wish to have. So you are saying that people shouldn't keep Jack Russells, Labradors, Spaniels, Poodles, German Shepherds, Collies etc as pets. These are all working breeds and also good family pets and happen to have a high tolerance for exercise including running free, not just plodding around the streets on the end of a lead. If dogs being off lead in public places becomes the law then police dogs, farm dogs and gun dogs won't be able to do their jobs!

I do not treat my dog like a child, he is a dog and is allowed to act like a dog and interact with other dogs whilst he is off lead on a walk. Yes, he has been "attacked" by other dogs during his life but this had not made him anxious or fearful. It is the reaction of the owner that makes the dog fearful.

Anyway, I am off for a nice, long, off lead walk with my dog to the field now and hope those inconsiderate footballers are not on there. You should see the state they leave the field in when they have finished playing their ridiculous game. Empty bottles, carrier bags, long strands of sticky tape, old socks, bandages, food wrappers and other detritus. So, they are far from perfect but you seem to support their actions.

You make some valid point but on playing fields you are way of beam, these fields are for recreation and sport purposes for people, they are not dog walking or toilet areas, I know you will return with YOU always pick up after your dog etc;etc; the sad but simple fact is that far too many don't, if there is anyone to blame for increased restrictions on dogs, look no further than your fellow dog owners, you may also find that these "inconsiderate" footballers pay fees in order to use these fields, do you?

Originally Posted by silver fox

You make some valid point but on playing fields you are way of beam, these fields are for recreation and sport purposes for people, they are not dog walking or toilet areas

Which Sefton Council By Law states you cannot walk a dog on a recreational field ?

Originally Posted by silver fox

you may also find that these "inconsiderate" footballers pay fees in order to use these fields, do you?

All residents who pay Council Tax contribute to the upkeep of recreational areas owned by Sefton Council and currently, anyone, resident or not, can use them subject to the By Laws. The footballers fees are to cover the additional cost of formal pitch marking and maintaining the grass length suitable for a football match, not litter collection after matches, unless you know something we don't ?

Originally Posted by Coastal99

Which Sefton Council By Law states you cannot walk a dog on a recreational field ?



All residents who pay Council Tax contribute to the upkeep of recreational areas owned by Sefton Council and currently, anyone, resident or not, can use them subject to the By Laws. The footballers fees are to cover the additional cost of formal pitch marking and maintaining the grass length suitable for a football match, not litter collection after matches, unless you know something we don't ?

Correct - those who deposit their drinks bottles etc are littering and could be issued with a Fixed Penalty.

Originally Posted by Coastal99

Which Sefton Council By Law states you cannot walk a dog on a recreational field ?



All residents who pay Council Tax contribute to the upkeep of recreational areas owned by Sefton Council and currently, anyone, resident or not, can use them subject to the By Laws. The footballers fees are to cover the additional cost of formal pitch marking and maintaining the grass length suitable for a football match, not litter collection after matches, unless you know something we don't ?

The thing is dog walkers don't want to walk their dog on playing fields, they want to let it run lose, free to do as it pleases irrespective of any-one or anything else.

As yet there is no bye-law banning dogs from playing fields, but dog walkers do not have priority or special privilege, treat the area with due regard for others and it would not be a problem, unfortunately too many dog owners do create a problem.

As far as litter left by anyone that is just as bad and must be dealt with, agree that playing fields are open to all but those who abuse that use are wrong in every way.

Another child ripped to bits and dog lovers want the rest of us to accept these animals running loose in parks, football pitches and on the beach. I vote NO.

Originally Posted by cotton man

Another child ripped to bits and dog lovers want the rest of us to accept these animals running loose in parks, football pitches and on the beach. I vote NO.

Yet these dog came from a neighbouring garden, this child playing in what was thought to be a safe place, then gets attacked by dogs getting into the garden, another responsible dog owner? I think not.

To be healthy, a dog must have regular exercise - both for cardiovascular function and muscle maintenance but also for its mental state. However, the level and type of exercise depends on the breed, natural activity level, age and any health issues. Many dogs, especially the more active and intelligent breeds, also require substantial training and mental stimulation, otherwise behavioural problems will result.

I've been a happy, responsible dog owner for 10 years. I've met some lovely fellow dog walkers along the way. My negative experiences have been with another species..aggression, disorder in the pack, bad behaviour etc. So I suggest 'the owners' of the plague of feral youths that have blighted our communifty for some time now are dealt with first! Their parents are probably also the owners of that minority group of 'out of control' dogs!

I was asked to support the petition by a dog owning friend, I refused. Dogs should be on a lead in all public places. For once I agree withe Sefton.

Originally Posted by aqua31

Here is a better idea. All parents should be made to keep their offspring on a child safety harness and under their control at all times until they are 18 years old. That would solve the problem of gangs of youths hanging around causing trouble and intimidating innocent members of the public which is a far greater problem but no, pick on law abiding people trying to have a pleasant walk with their dog.

Now obviously I don't have children but I do have a dog and he is not a threat to anyone and has been brought up properly to have manners and to obey commands. This stupid law will just create more dangerous and out of control dogs dancing around at the end of a lead, especially high energy working breeds. Not to mention the cruelty aspect of it - NEVER being able to let your dog have proper exercise. Number 4 of the RSPCA Five Freedoms is: Freedom to express normal behaviour: by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal’s own kind and Number 5: Freedom from fear and distress: by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering. So therefore, by bringing in this law, every dog owner will be breaking the 2006 Animal Welfare Act. I know which law I will be breaking, it won't be a difficult choice.

I do agree that in places like Botanic Gardens/Hesketh Park dogs should be on leads and I have never let my dog off there as there is a higher concentration of families, children and elderly people enjoying the parks and the ponds with the waterfowl. However, the beach or the sand dunes or the big playing field at Kew or the other playing fields around town I don't see a problem. For much of the week these are empty and the only people on there are dog walkers!

You quote the RSPCA advisory conditions for owning a dog - this is not a Law and the RSPCA would not prosecute anyone failing to follow their guidelines. I have owned many dogs when I was living in the countryside, and walked for many miles with them without meeting one person. Unfortunately, I now live in a town, where it is highly unsuitable for dogs for many reasons - the volume of traffic is distressing to dogs, the electric railways which are a source of a high pitched sound, inaudible to human hearing but distressing to dogs, many areas with heavy footfall including that of owners of other dogs - the majority of which are untrained animals that become highly excitable when meeting other dogs - a town is not a place for an animal! Most dog owners own dogs for THEIR own satisfaction - they neither know nor understand the needs of the animal. People own dogs for a variety of reasons - as a substitute for a child, as a companion, to give satisfaction that one has control over - but there are no happier dogs than the trained working dogs with the life the species were intended for. Those who are complaining about having to keep a dog on a lead - is this because of your OWN inconvenience in having to do so? For if you were sincere about the dog, you would choose to live in an area which is more suited to such an animal.