Brexit Leavers left behind?

**seivad** · 07/04/2019 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by said

Fast back peddling there I see.

Yes, unlike you when I make an error I concede and apologise if necessary.

Accounting has little to do with Mathematics, apart from the ability to add, subtract and apply simple formulas.

I have no idea how you know that I am an accountant, but your comment demonstrates a very limited understanding of what accounting involves. It also ignores the educational requirements, which incidentally does include statistics. You also have no idea what my post secondary education is, the qualifications I have, the sector I was employed in, or what my job title/responsibilities were.

**local** · 07/04/2019 01:05 PM

Caroline Lucas and others falls into the trap of alienating the older or dare I say more experienced voter.

She is 58 years old I believe yet clearly thinks her experience of being in the UK trumps people older than her or who don't agree with her.

In the latest by-election the Greens were soundly beaten by amongst others UKIP's ghastly candidate, I would suggest she hasn't got her finger on the pulse of what people want.

We are told by the green camp to extend the vote down to 16 year old's as its "their future"

I am more of the opinion that we should raise the voting age so that the voters have had a chance to gain some experience of what their voting for rather than what their parents are paying for.

This might help at least some of them avoid looking stupid by saying they didn't know what they were voting for when asked to vote in or out despite the biggest campaign in our countries life.

Maybe just maybe they will take the time to understand that a big red bus saying lets mean't it is being used in the imperative, as in I have won the lottery "lets"
buy a house, go out for dinner,buy a dog.

**seivad** · 07/04/2019 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by local

Caroline Lucas and others falls into the trap of alienating the older or dare I say more experienced voter.

She is 58 years old I believe yet clearly thinks her experience of being in the UK trumps people older than her or who don't agree with her.

Yes, it's a big mistake to discount potential voters based on age, or any other demographic. On the basis of age, they are a demographic with a high voter turnout. Their numbers may be small, but election majorities can also be small... ignore the oldies at your peril!

We are told by the green camp to extend the vote down to 16 year old's as its "their future"

I am more of the opinion that we should raise the voting age so that the voters have had a chance to gain some experience of what their voting for rather than what their parents are paying for.

I agree that 16 is too young to be given the vote. I'm not sure about raising the age though.

**local** · 07/04/2019 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by seivad

Yes, it's a big mistake to discount potential voters based on age, or any other demographic. On the basis of age, they are a demographic with a high voter turnout. Their numbers may be small, but election majorities can also be small... ignore the oldies at your peril!

I agree that 16 is too young to be given the vote. I'm not sure about raising the age though.

Bring forward 5 erudite and worldly 18 year olds and I will find you ten still in bed, too busy with A-levels or simply not interested.

(Although on second thought you might well find me some clueless older voters as well)

Our vote is valuable or at least used to be and is our most important asset in a democratic country.

I personally think you should have to pass a basic understanding of the issue test before using it.

**Desert Region** · 07/04/2019 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by seivad

Yes, unlike you when I make an error I concede and apologise if necessary.

Which doesn't often happen, in these times.

See:

The Metric System

https://www.qlocal.co.uk/southport/f...m-55032005.htm

**seivad** · 07/04/2019 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by local

Our vote is valuable or at least used to be and is our most important asset in a democratic country.

Agree, a vote is a precious thing and should not be wasted. It annoys me to no end to see how voter turnout has decreased. Yet, at least in my experience, those who CBA voting because "they're all the same/I hate them all/what difference will it make? etc.etc., still complain at election results.

I imagine that in the future voter apathy could be at an all time high in the UK. In the referendum people voted in good faith, and their elected representatives have not delivered. They are as split as the people who voted, and are ripping the country apart. If I lived in the UK I would not have voted to leave. However, despite my personal viewpoint, I believe that the government has a moral obligation to carry out the result... preferably with a deal that satisfies the electorate.

I personally think you should have to pass a basic understanding of the issue test before using it.

There goes the electorate

**Toodles McGinty** · 07/04/2019 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Desert Region

Which doesn't often happen, in these times.

See:

The Metric System

https://www.qlocal.co.uk/southport/f...m-55032005.htm

Lordy, how did I miss that thread? It's priceless! Best thing I've read all day.

He's a gift that just keeps giving.

**The PNP** · 07/04/2019 04:57 PM

I believe polls may have an unfortunate side effect on the results of elections/referendums.....E.g polls showed 'remain' had a majority before the referendum. Therefore some remainers won't bother voting, because they've taken comfort from the polls, thinking their side is (according to the polls) bound to win.

STOP BREXIT!

**local** · 07/04/2019 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by seivad

Agree, a vote is a precious thing and should not be wasted. It annoys me to no end to see how voter turnout has decreased. Yet, at least in my experience, those who CBA voting because "they're all the same/I hate them all/what difference will it make? etc.etc., still complain at election results.

I imagine that in the future voter apathy could be at an all time high in the UK. In the referendum people voted in good faith, and their elected representatives have not delivered. They are as split as the people who voted, and are ripping the country apart. If I lived in the UK I would not have voted to leave. However, despite my personal viewpoint, I believe that the government has a moral obligation to carry out the result... preferably with a deal that satisfies the electorate.

There goes the electorate

If your moral obligation is to respect the outcome then its out with no deal if the MP's can't agree on Ms Mays Governments deal.

If your moral obligation is to frustrate the outcome or manoeuvre along a wavy fence its Labours position (depending what way their facing on the day you ask)

Bringing the country together is pious nonsense opined by hypocrites in a first past the post system.

Otherwise we have rule by losers a great political oxymoron rendering elections pointless.

**Alikado** · 07/04/2019 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by local

If your moral obligation is to respect the outcome then its out with no deal if the MP's can't agree on Ms Mays Governments deal.

Article 50 is to negotiate leaving, the negotiations are complete so the deal should go through.
The ones trying to frustrate leaving are Jacob and his half witted cronies shouting from the back, Parliament should never have been given a vote, that is the problem.

**Desert Region** · 07/04/2019 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by The PNP

I believe polls may have an unfortunate side effect on the results of elections/referendums.....E.g polls showed 'remain' had a majority before the referendum. Therefore some remainers won't bother voting, because they've taken comfort from the polls, thinking their side is (according to the polls) bound to win.

STOP BREXIT!

The side-effect can work either way or both ways.

A lead in the polls can foster (potential) voter complacency; being behind in the polls can foster (potential) voter futility.

Probably neither influencing factor was at work in the 2016 EU Referendum.

Originally Posted by The PNP

E.g polls showed 'remain' had a majority before the referendum.

Did they really, though? Was it actually that clear cut?

EU referendum poll tracker

22 June 2016: Still no consistent picture

18 June 2016: New batch of polls suggest result is in the balance

16 June 2016: Leave trend continues

14 June 2016: TNS and ComRes continue pattern

14 June 2016: Clear shift to leave

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...endum-36271589

Or there is this EU Referendum 2016 poll tracker post-event analysis, based on poll data [a poll of polls] put together [collated] by that man again, Professor John Curtice.

This article still points to the result being a close-run thing:

How right or wrong were the polls about the EU referendum?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-right-or-wrong-were-the-polls/

Which is why I say that probably neither influencing factor was at work in the 2016 EU Referendum.

By the way, the article also mentions this:

"But following the tragic death of Labour MP Jo Cox and a controversial Ukip migration poster, the polls became closer again."

Indeed, one of the side effects of the gruesome murder of Jo Cox, by a right-wing extremist and white supremacist, who shouted "This is for Britain. Britain will always come first" - will have been to dampen the leave vote.

**thediscovolante** · 07/04/2019 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by jonboi

It is becoming increasingly clear to me from the chaotic shenanigans going on in our Government that those people who voted to leave the EU in the referendum of 2016 are not going to get what they voted for. Any “deal” will be a compromise and tie the UK to the EU in some way or another. Equally those who voted in the 2016 referendum to remain are not going to get what they wanted either. Both sides will have been stitched up!
Leave voters have often derided the remainers push to have a second referendum, but this is beginning to look like the solution for leavers as well, a second chance to once and for all confirm their position that they want to leave the EU and will not accept any compromise on this issue and tell the Government this in no uncertain terms. I would urge those who voted to leave the EU to seriously consider supporting the campaign for a People’s Vote, or as it being termed now by some government ministers a “Confirmatory vote”. It’s not just about remainers now, a second vote on this issue is a democratic process to clearly demonstrate to the Government the express will of the people today, and as such must include every one of us whatever our position on Brexit.
You can join the campaign here:
https://www.peoples-vote.uk/
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so if leavers win again,,,we all know what will happen....nothing...the remainer elites in parliment will just put another road block to stop it...parliment does does not represent the man in the street....they have directorships in industry that rely on basic wage immigrants...the elites make their money from immigrant labour...try and get a job in a certain large companies in our town if your a brit..you have no chance..i dont want to name them but they dont want british workers...your are not welcome in your own country

**Desert Region** · 07/04/2019 07:05 PM

Theresa May gives video update on Brexit

https://www.independent.ie/videos/wo...-37990758.html

Shades of Tony Blair style presentation techniques, with the "you know" conservational filler rate noticeably high, as Theresa sits on the cosy sofa.

A remainer delivering remain.

No surprise there, then.

I think she views the seismic brand damage to the Conservatives as collateral damage.

Passion for the EU or for Europe trumps all.

It may transpire, in time, that this approach is the right way for the UK.

Who really knows or can definitely predict?

**Toodles McGinty** · 07/04/2019 08:20 PM

She shared another today:

**Desert Region** · 07/04/2019 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty

She shared another today:

Startling, in that the performer looks more like someone I know than Theresa May! Never would have recognised that was "Jon Snow" as Churchill.

ABBA's Waterloo would have perhaps been too obvious a music choice (although American sketchwriters (?) may have overlooked that). Still, the sad and bittersweet low-tempo music choice worked a treat for the tone, mood and of course the message.

I did laugh out loud when it appeared the scene was going to take a full-on lurch towards Maddie Ziegler's performance in Chandeliar

.

The guy playing Corbyn was pretty good but Tracey Ullman's turn is still superior.

Two difficulties with rolling with it are:

She doesn't come across as someone who admired Churchill.
Again, that brave-face victim narrative - the pity invitation.

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