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Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY
How many of these young men are terrorists or terrorists cells infiltrating our borders under the guise of migrants fleeing from tyranny.
I guess if we put them in the army and give em a machine gun we will find out.
Ha!Ha! That would settle the matter fast, one way or another.
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Originally Posted by Alikado
I would guess that very few are terrorists as most of the perpetrators of terrorist incidents are home grown.
Not necessarily. I am given to understand that among the different factions of certain types of people who have been allowed entry into Europe, there are several who are disaffected. Their confidence among each faction has grown with an increase in numbers. As reflected from their home countries - we are most likely sitting on a time bomb.
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Originally Posted by said
The UK has a large number of people who come to the UK for safety from the conflicts in their own country. The UK houses and feeds these people who are almost entirely young men.
These young men spend many months waiting around in confined spaces to hear if they have been granted asylum or not. Even when they are granted asylum they are not allowed to work, not allowed to travel and they are paid welfare benefits.
Do you think it would be far more beneficial to these people if they were conscripted into the British Army and trained to fight so that they could help their families back in their own country - or even fight for the UK if the case was to be? They would still have housing and food. Considering that the countries that these people come from are always in conflict - I think it would give them great pride and help them enormously.
Where did you get the idea that when asylum is granted, refugees can't work or travel? As soon as asylum is granted, they can work. They can also travel using a Refugee Convention Travel Document.
Your scenario depicts thousands of asylum seekers, who, due to being banned from working, live on benefits forever. Once asylum is granted, they are given leave to remain in the UK for 5 years, which means they can now work. After this period they can apply to settle in the UK.
Many refugees who have been granted asylum will have difficulty finding employment straight away. I've no idea how long it might take them, but there's no way the majority will live on benefits forever.
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Originally Posted by said
Someone mentioned in response to this thread - that many of the Asylum seekers are here in the UK to ESCAPE conscription in their home country where it is law. That is the reason why so many of them are young men, and if they return to their own country, they will be punished for going AWOL.
In which case - surely it would be better if conscription was brought in for them in the UK.
Maybe I'm going blind, I can't see a response suggesting that on this thread.
I do recall that many young men fleeing Syria were doing so to escape conscription. Understandably so when you consider that fighting for their country meant killing their own people. In addition to which they were also in danger of being taken by ISIL. I can't say that I blame them.
I don't understand your logic in saying that it would be better if conscription was brought in for them in the UK. Why would it be better?
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We have plenty of young men and women of our own if conscription is your bag but most in the forces are underemployed as it is.
The work they now do has moved from the cannon fodder days and for the most part requires a reasonable level of competence.
There are plenty of jobs that need doing, if they should be here then let them work for their corn, if not send them back after slapping a bill on their parasitic lawyers backs.
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Originally Posted by said
Not necessarily. I am given to understand that among the different factions of certain types of people who have been allowed entry into Europe, there are several who are disaffected. Their confidence among each faction has grown with an increase in numbers. As reflected from their home countries - we are most likely sitting on a time bomb.
I would imagine that all would be disaffected or they wouldn't be wanting to migrate.
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Originally Posted by salus.populi
Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants.
Correct they are illegal immigrants who claim asylum when caught.
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Originally Posted by Little Londoner
Correct they are illegal immigrants who claim asylum when caught.
I don't dispute that some of them will be economic migrants who should be given short shrift and returned from whence they came. However many of them are genuine and, apart from Syrians who were given special dispensation, there's no way to apply for asylum beforehand. You can only claim asylum when you're on the country's soil, which means entering illegally, or overstaying.
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Originally Posted by seivad
Maybe I'm going blind, I can't see a response suggesting that on this thread.
I do recall that many young men fleeing Syria were doing so to escape conscription. Understandably so when you consider that fighting for their country meant killing their own people. In addition to which they were also in danger of being taken by ISIL. I can't say that I blame them.
I don't understand your logic in saying that it would be better if conscription was brought in for them in the UK. Why would it be better?
Isn't that a bit like saying - they would be tortured for their political views in (say Iraq), so we should torture them.
They wouldn't want a fading oldie like me, but conscription for the wrong sort of war would have me packing my case.
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If they were genuinely trying to escape conflict or persecution in their own country then wouldn’t settling in the first “safe” country be enough ?
No, they would probably be kept in camps etc as in France, the “Holy Grail” is obviously the UK were many are being housed in hotels and with allowances and free movement.
Until such times as we take a firm stance and start turning them back or putting them into detention centres for assessment they will keep on coming.
The problem with putting them up in hotels, as well as encouraging more to come here, it is easy for them to “disappear” into the community if they so desire, rather worrying as we know so little about them or their motives for wanting to come to the UK.
It may sound harsh but there is a huge difference between illegal immigrants and those genuinely seeking asylum.
Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
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Talk of conscription is proposing an unwanted burden for our armed forces. Britain's military leaders know that conscription does not provide suitably motivated and skilled manpower for modern warfare.
[Perhaps some anticipate Britain requiring a conscripted 'foreign legion' — cannon fodder in future total wars wrought by the dissolution of international order. Anarchic struggles for essential resources seems a not improbable result of climate change.]
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Originally Posted by Rigsby
If they were genuinely trying to escape conflict or persecution in their own country then wouldn’t settling in the first “safe” country be enough ?
No, they would probably be kept in camps etc as in France, the “Holy Grail” is obviously the UK were many are being housed in hotels and with allowances and free movement.
Until such times as we take a firm stance and start turning them back or putting them into detention centres for assessment they will keep on coming.
The problem with putting them up in hotels, as well as encouraging more to come here, it is easy for them to “disappear” into the community if they so desire, rather worrying as we know so little about them or their motives for wanting to come to the UK.
It may sound harsh but there is a huge difference between illegal immigrants and those genuinely seeking asylum.
It is all in our hands but successive Governments have not done it, if anything it is quite the reverse with all the cuts. We have and always had have the ability to secure our Borders but the Government have chosen not to.
Build MODERN Prisons to sort the problems out in the prisons and refurbish the old ones to be used as accommodation for for illegals awaiting deportation and asylum seekers awaiting decisions.
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Originally Posted by Alikado
It is all in our hands but successive Governments have not done it, if anything it is quite the reverse with all the cuts. We have and always had have the ability to secure our Borders but the Government have chosen not to.
Build MODERN Prisons to sort the problems out in the prisons and refurbish the old ones to be used as accommodation for for illegals awaiting deportation and asylum seekers awaiting decisions.
I saw a report by Nigel Farage (not everyone’s cup of tea, I know) about them using hotels to house illegal immigrants, I pricked my ears up when he mentioned 2 hotels in the NW, both of which I have stayed at for business meetings, and both very, very nice.
The Chimney House Hotel and the Daresbury Park Hotel both in Cheshire, the latter having a fantastic spa, leisure club, pool etc. Out of interest I have just tried to book at room at both of them and there are no rooms at all available in the future.
Well worth a watch https://youtu.be/4VvzKM9q95w
Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
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Originally Posted by Rigsby
I saw a report by Nigel Farage (not everyone’s cup of tea, I know) about them using hotels to house illegal immigrants, I pricked my ears up when he mentioned 2 hotels in the NW, both of which I have stayed at for business meetings, and both very, very nice.
The Chimney House Hotel and the Daresbury Park Hotel both in Cheshire, the latter having a fantastic spa, leisure club, pool etc. Out of interest I have just tried to book at room at both of them and there are no rooms at all available in the future.
Well worth a watch https://youtu.be/4VvzKM9q95w
I think it must have been sometime ago you visited, I don't know who owns the Chimney but according to Tripadvisor it is one to avoid, the Daresbury is in the hands of Brittania - enough said.
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Apparently illegal immigrants have helped to save the hotel industry, now they can help to save the airline industry when they are ALL flown back.
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