Is a sensible debate possible

[said]

This topic is REAL and the intention is to put it forward for a sensible debate. Sensible debates on this site receive mixed responses because many people do not understand the issues involved in serious issues. I will try just once more - if anyone feels that the topic is beyond them or that they believe it injures their sensibilities in any way - then request the topic be removed. Fair enough?

In the Middle East etc., where there are a large number of continuous conflicts, the majority of which are concerned with the three main branches of Islam, Sunni, Shia and Ibadi, and have been occurring since Mohammed, their leader died. Each branch believes that their ways are superior to the other main branches and each believe that they should become the leading branch of Islam. As you know, Islam is more than a religious belief, it is also combined as a political way of life.

Not long ago, I was talking to some young Muslims here in the UK. We talked about many things in general, but one thing they all agreed upon was that here in the UK there is a growing situation among the Muslim people. I thought little of it, until I read an article in the BBC on line news, relating to growing unrest between the different branches of Muslims in the UK who have grown in confidence in a foreign land by virtue of their increased numbers. There are around 3 million Muslims in the UK. BEAR WITH ME - THIS IS NOT RACIST!!

In the UK, we have no Jewish Schools, no Sikh Schools, no Chinese/Japanese/Indian schools - but we do have a large number of Muslim Schools. This is the same with Community Centres. Most foreign people to our country are happy to enjoy the country as it is.

There are 15,000 Mosques/Masjidas in the UK according to the New Statesmen, many of which are never full, but would mean that on distribution average would number about 200 Muslims per establishment. There are 421,000 Sikhs in the UK, and 352 Gurdwaras (Sikh Temples) - on distribution would number around 1,200 Sikhs per establishment. There are 817,000 Hindus in the UK and 150 Hindu Temples, on distribution would mean 5446 Hindus to each establishment. There are 40,300 Christian Churches in the UK, among a population of 70 million people, again on distribution the number per establishment is 1,700 people.

Most of the specialised places are not just for Muslims - but the majority are for Sunni Muslims, one of the leading branches of Islam. At present, in almost every county in England, councils are being swamped for planning permission for more Mosques. A huge Mosque has just been granted permission in Blackburn. In Preston, plans have been submitted to build one of the largest Mosques. It is to overlook the Major motorways and would stand high on a hill overlooking the whole of the surrounding area, becoming a focus of Preston. The City of Preston, has recently in 2016 had a church converted to the level of a Cathedral - this mosque would dwarf that church. The name of Preston is derived from 'Priest's Settlement' or Priest's Town in British history and tradition. An oversized Mosque does not quite do it right.

So, in conclusion, we have a huge number of Mosques, some schools and many Community Centres for Muslim people - but - which are majorly for the Sunni Muslims, in the UK. Imagine if you belong to one of the other leading Muslim groups ........Is the BBC right in saying we should be concerned?

[seivad]

In the UK, we have no Jewish Schools, no Sikh Schools, no Chinese/Japanese/Indian schools - but we do have a large number of Muslim Schools. This is the same with Community Centres. Most foreign people to our country are happy to enjoy the country as it is

If you want a sensible debate, it would be helpful if you presented your chosen topic using accurate information. I've neither the time nor the inclination to check out your other 'facts', but the 'fact' that I've quoted above immediately jumped out at me as being unlikely to be true. A quick Google confirmed my suspicions.

In 2018 there were:

* Seven Hindu schools, according to the Avanti Schools Trust, which runs them. They educate 3,000 students across five primary schools, one secondary school and one “all through” school. All are state-funded academies.

* 14 Sikh schools in England solely, says the Sikh Press Association.

* 120 Jewish schools. Currently 37,000 Jewish children attend 120 Jewish schools throughout the UK, according to the Partnership for Jewish Schools. These schools range from the ultra-orthodox same-sex schools to the more secular mixed schools. There are both primary and secondary schools and state and fee-paying schools. Although predominantly in London, there are Jewish schools in Glasgow, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds and Manchester. Many of the pupils attending the Jewish schools in Glasgow, Birmingham, Liverpool and Leeds are not Jewish. There are none in Wales or Northern Ireland.

* 184 Muslim Schools: one academy, 16 free schools, 12 voluntary aided, and 155 independent schools. These figures come from the Association of Muslim Schools.

* There are no state-funded Muslim schools in Northern Ireland or Scotland. Wales has been included in the English central region.

Source: https://religionmediacentre.org.uk/f...ols-in-the-uk/

When people have little faith in the accuracy of your information, it's too time consuming for them to check your facts and figures. If you want more member participation, fact check yourself, or provide a link to the source of your information. Maybe then you'll stand a chance of getting a sensible debate.

[The PNP]

Fyi, in addition to the above, there is a 'Maharishi' school on the far side of Skem.....
I pass it whenever I ride that stage of the Lancashire Cycleway.

[local]

Just being helpful with this "balanced" debate;


https://www.findajewishschool.org.uk/


To give some balance I would be happy to see all places of worship used for something less divisive than religious indoctrination.


Just out of interest Said, do you ask all people you speak to their religion?

I don't, it's like their sexuality for them, not me.

[Hamble]

And a anomaly too.

https://www.jta.org/2018/04/30/globa...uslim-students

[Little Londoner]

If Said wants a Massdebate then let him/her get on with it.


Please note A debate about the make up of the Islamic faith has had BIKES introduced into it by GUESS WHO? Troll or what.

[Hamble]

[QUOTE=Little Londoner;6767582]If Said wants a Massdebate then let him/her get on with it.




Call me when he has finished fgs.

[seivad]

There are 15,000 Mosques/Masjidas in the UK according to the New Statesmen, many of which are never full, but would mean that on distribution average would number about 200 Muslims per establishment.

More inaccuracies and flawed reasoning.

Your comment begs the question: 'how do you know that they are never full?'
A quick fact check reveals that, if every Muslim attended a mosque, quite the opposite would be true.

From your source (New Statesman) there are around 1,500 mosques. It's obviously a typing error on your part, but that extra zero makes a mockery of your '200 Muslims per establishment'

There are 421,000 Sikhs in the UK, and 352 Gurdwaras (Sikh Temples) - on distribution would number around 1,200 Sikhs per establishment. There are 817,000 Hindus in the UK and 150 Hindu Temples, on distribution would mean 5446 Hindus to each establishment. There are 40,300 Christian Churches in the UK, among a population of 70 million people, again on distribution the number per establishment is 1,700 people.

As is the case with your statement on the number of Muslims attending mosques, you are assuming that every person attends their place of worship. This is no more true for other faiths, than it is for those who were born into the Christian faith.

You have also double counted Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs by including them again in the total UK population. You can't take the 70 million population and designate them all as Christians to calculate the number of Christians per church. To arrive at a correct figure, you have to deduct all of the non Christian faiths and the large number of atheists in the UK.

[The PNP]

Please note A debate about the make up of the Islamic faith has had BIKES introduced into it by GUESS WHO? Troll or what.

Had I said I regularly drive past there (which I don't), would that be introducing CARS into the debate?

Btw, Islamists ride bikes as well - don't they?

[joan ofarc]

If Said wants a Massdebate then let him/her get on with it.


Please note A debate about the make up of the Islamic faith has had BIKES introduced into it by GUESS WHO? Troll or what.

And you have reintroduced your pathetic feud,,,,,,blah,blah,blah.

[joan ofarc]

Thanks for all that counter research Seivad. I was going to mention King David school in Liverpool but you beat me to it. Also there are many other denominations who have churches that are not Christian, Hindu etc that Said has not taken into account.

I don't think we can have a serious debate with someone who bangs on about the same mis-facts no matter how many times they are refuted. Debate implies that minds are flexible enough to change a stance based on new information or a different interpretation of a fact.

[salus.populi]

Is a sensible debate possible?

Not with a pathological liar, no.

Each branch believes that their ways are superior to the other main branches and each believe that they should become the leading branch of Islam.

So, just like Christianity then, which has far more different branches.

[silver fox]

The problems with all religions is religion, so many religions each with their own assorted branches, each one believing that they and they alone are the right way.

That in itself doesn’t trouble me, but certain factions within most religions take this to extremes.

[Little Londoner]

And you have reintroduced your pathetic feud,.

No feud sweets I just can't stand the fool, if you posted about the Burns Unit at Orleans Hospital he'd bring bikes into that too BLAH BLAH

[Little Londoner]

The problems with all religions is religion, so many religions each with their own assorted branches, each one believing that they and they alone are the right way.

That in itself doesn’t trouble me, but certain factions within most religions take this to extremes.

If Religion was forbidden what band wagon would us Atheists jump on.