Is a sensible debate possible

[said]

If you want a sensible debate, it would be helpful if you presented your chosen topic using accurate information. I've neither the time nor the inclination to check out your other 'facts', but the 'fact' that I've quoted above immediately jumped out at me as being unlikely to be true. A quick Google confirmed my suspicions.

In 2018 there were:

* Seven Hindu schools, according to the Avanti Schools Trust, which runs them. They educate 3,000 students across five primary schools, one secondary school and one “all through” school. All are state-funded academies.

* 14 Sikh schools in England solely, says the Sikh Press Association.

* 120 Jewish schools. Currently 37,000 Jewish children attend 120 Jewish schools throughout the UK, according to the Partnership for Jewish Schools. These schools range from the ultra-orthodox same-sex schools to the more secular mixed schools. There are both primary and secondary schools and state and fee-paying schools. Although predominantly in London, there are Jewish schools in Glasgow, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds and Manchester. Many of the pupils attending the Jewish schools in Glasgow, Birmingham, Liverpool and Leeds are not Jewish. There are none in Wales or Northern Ireland.

* 184 Muslim Schools: one academy, 16 free schools, 12 voluntary aided, and 155 independent schools. These figures come from the Association of Muslim Schools.

* There are no state-funded Muslim schools in Northern Ireland or Scotland. Wales has been included in the English central region.

Source: https://religionmediacentre.org.uk/f...ols-in-the-uk/

When people have little faith in the accuracy of your information, it's too time consuming for them to check your facts and figures. If you want more member participation, fact check yourself, or provide a link to the source of your information. Maybe then you'll stand a chance of getting a sensible debate.

Oh, the irony, You haven't quite got the hang of 'Discussions' have you? Personal abuse is not quite the plot - whatever the corrected figures, even those supplied by yourself - they do not change the argument but do, in fact support it.

There are about 40 independent schools with a Jewish faith designation, although inspection evidence suggests that around 60 schools actually have an Orthodox Jewish character. They are concentrated in the Hackney, Haringey and Barnet areas of London with a smaller group in Greater Manchester.
Gov.uk.

There are seven Hindu state schools, and one private Hindu
faith-based school in the UK, of which six are in London and the South East and two are in Leicester.


Hindusim UK

Ok - so now continue to discuss.....................

[said]

Fyi, in addition to the above, there is a 'Maharishi' school on the far side of Skem.....
I pass it whenever I ride that stage of the Lancashire Cycleway.

Ok Fair enough! Still does not change the general facts though.

[said]

Just being helpful with this "balanced" debate;


https://www.findajewishschool.org.uk/


To give some balance I would be happy to see all places of worship used for something less divisive than religious indoctrination.


Just out of interest Said, do you ask all people you speak to their religion?

I don't, it's like their sexuality for them, not me.

In answer to your question, it is absolutely necessary to ask what people would like to eat when invited to dinner. Imagine not knowing if a person was a Muslim and we had previously decided to have a pork roast? It would not go down very well (excuse the pun) Also to some nations even your gestures are taken a different way, and even alcoholic drinks (if any) and other drinks too. Orthodox Jewish people eat kosher foods, as do Muslims, and you cannot cook an English breakfast for either. I am not like Biden - I would hate to be a rude host, and there are so many different diets to remember.

Unlike that which some posters like to label me - we do often have guests for dinner or staying overnight, they come from all nations of the World. It is very interesting talking to them and listening to their stories of 'home', which really open your mind, and hearing about their concerns in the UK. I could relate many interesting stories that I have heard. I believe I have had far more to do with overseas people than any other poster on here. But there you go, don't want to burst any bubbles do we?

Over the recent months - we have put up a number of young Muslim girls and guys. Their view are completely different from the sanitised version given to the media. The Muslims adhere to Islam, Islam is a combination of Politics and Religion, it is the way they lead their lives. We have had Muslims from Africa, Pakistan, Iran and Egypt staying over. That is what has prompted this discussion.

[said]

If Said wants a Massdebate then let him/her get on with it.


Please note A debate about the make up of the Islamic faith has had BIKES introduced into it by GUESS WHO? Troll or what.

Muslims ride bikes too you know?

[local]

Ok Fair enough! Still does not change the general facts though.

But don't you see it upends your point?


We have a Mosque in Southport why don't you ask to have a chat with them when they can?

You mention your previous chat you could add this to your learning experience.

[justbecause]

Had I said I regularly drive past there (which I don't), would that be introducing CARS into the debate?

Btw, Islamists ride bikes as well - don't they?

The point is, there was absolutely no need to mention what mode of transport you used to pass the school. It was totally irrelevant, but like many other threads, you just have to bring cycling into it.

[said]

More inaccuracies and flawed reasoning.

Your comment begs the question: 'how do you know that they are never full?'
A quick fact check reveals that, if every Muslim attended a mosque, quite the opposite would be true.

From your source (New Statesman) there are around 1,500 mosques. It's obviously a typing error on your part, but that extra zero makes a mockery of your '200 Muslims per establishment'


As is the case with your statement on the number of Muslims attending mosques, you are assuming that every person attends their place of worship. This is no more true for other faiths, than it is for those who were born into the Christian faith.

You have also double counted Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs by including them again in the total UK population. You can't take the 70 million population and designate them all as Christians to calculate the number of Christians per church. To arrive at a correct figure, you have to deduct all of the non Christian faiths and the large number of atheists in the UK.

You have completely missed the focus of the discussion for want of so rudely trying to put me down. I have not double counted the numbers. The British published population numbers are estimations only - there is no exact record of the actual numbers of people in the UK. There are estimated to be between 1/1.5 million illegal immigrants alone (Immigration Watch) The British population has seen an 82% increase due to immigrants entering the country. There has been an increase of about 3 million babies born to foreign parents. There is no knowledge of how many 'students' have gone missing in the UK. If anything the numbers given are very conservative.

Just as with ALL the other religions, Westernised overseas people are turning their backs on religion, preferring the freedoms that our own young people enjoy. So the numbers in every religion are falling. That is part of the discussion.

Bearing in mind the actual percentages of the Islamic people in the UK to the whole population of all nations in the UK, and the fact that the attendance figures are reducing year by year - should there be more mosques built? Would an increase in the number of mosques for the Sunni muslims here in the UK antagonise the Shia Muslims based on their desire for superiority?

[said]

But don't you see it upends your point?


We have a Mosque in Southport why don't you ask to have a chat with them when they can?

You mention your previous chat you could add this to your learning experience.

Don't be so silly! The Southport Mosque is Sunni Muslim - you want me to go and ask why there are not more mosques built for the Shia Muslim? People have been beheaded for less than that! You seem to be a nice social chap - you go and ask?

[The PNP]

The point is, there was absolutely no need to mention what mode of transport you used to pass the school. It was totally irrelevant, but like many other threads, you just have to bring cycling into it.

Simply giving the reason for my passing through there....Could otherwise appear suspicious to some, since it's a school in a rather out-of-the-way location.

Meanwhile motorists keep butting into non-car threads, with their endless harping about parking their cars, about so-called 'closed' roads, etc. Yet cyclists never complain about them doing so.

[said]

Thanks for all that counter research Seivad. I was going to mention King David school in Liverpool but you beat me to it. Also there are many other denominations who have churches that are not Christian, Hindu etc that Said has not taken into account.

I don't think we can have a serious debate with someone who bangs on about the same mis-facts no matter how many times they are refuted. Debate implies that minds are flexible enough to change a stance based on new information or a different interpretation of a fact.

So you have not addressed the facts of the discussion. Yes, there are many different religions, establishments etc., the few examples given were just randomly chosen, they do not change the facts of the discussion! You have been given a new interpretation based on new evidence which has been published in the recent news. Look, if it is beyond you to respond as required, (personal abuse is not acceptable nor expected from a rational person) - just move on to another topic, OK?

[justbecause]

Simply giving the reason for my passing through there....Could otherwise appear suspicious to some, since it's a school in a rather out-of-the-way location.

Meanwhile motorists keep butting into non-car threads, with their endless harping about parking their cars, about so-called 'closed' roads, etc. Yet cyclists never complain about them doing so.

Yet again you’ve turned a totally unrelated topic into your cycling mantra. If there was such a thing as an England Boring Team, you would, without doubt be its Captain.

[salus.populi]

Over the recent months - we have put up a number of young Muslim girls and guys.... We have had Muslims from Africa, Pakistan, Iran and Egypt staying over.

Of course you have.

[said]

Of course you have.

You are such a sad boring fart!

[salus.populi]

You are such a sad boring fart!

Oh, the irony, You haven't quite got the hang of 'Discussions' have you? Personal abuse is not quite the plot

[said]

Yes, well you pushed me into doing it. You would make a saint swear!