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Published on: 15/10/2021 04:35 PMReported by: steve
Southport journalist Martin Hovden writes: The escalating war of words between opponents of Sefton Council's plan for more cycle lanes in the town took an extraordinary turn today (Friday) when a senior local authority councillor suggested the consultation process had been rigged by its opponents.
It's extremely unusual for a politician to be critical of the public (ie voters), but this what Sefton's John Fairclough, referring to the consultation results, said this morning: “There were some unusual outcomes including multiple, and in one case 19, submissions from a single IP address and people responding to every single question with 'strongly disagree'.
“My concern is that the genuine views of the people of Southport might have been hijacked in a co-ordinated response by people who don't want to see these walking and cycling schemes go ahead.”
And throwing more oil on the fire, he added: “Those who took part in the consultation seem to have been mainly people who fit a certain profile.”
Certain profile? Hijacked? Whichever way you look at it, Cllr Fairclough is accusing the public of trying to fix the survey results.
Understandably, the plan's opponents have deluged social media with their outrage at the councillor's accusations. And it's a fierce debate that's likely to run until the survey results are discussed by the council next month.
But let's take a closer look at the politics involved.
Sefton Council is run by Labour. Cllr Fairclough is a Labour cabinet member – from Linacre in south Sefton (don't rush to have a go at me for mentioning his ward location - bear with me.)
The idea and money for the cycle lanes have come from the government – run by Boris Johnson and the Tories.
And one of the Facebook pages set up to oppose the plan is run by Sinclair Hesketh d'Albuquerque and Thomas de Freitas. Fine. But nowhere on their campaign Facebook page does it say they are attached to any political party. Until you start digging and discover that Sinclair is a Southport Tory councillor and Thomas is a former Tory candidate and works full-time for Southport Tory MP Damien Moore.
So local Tories, including Tory MP Damien Moore, oppose a scheme thought up and developed by the Tories?
One of the accusations made against Labour is that they spend all the council money in south Sefton. Cllr Fairclough (representing a south Sefton ward, as I said) can now justifiably say: I want to give Southport thousands of pounds to make the town safer and more green, but you keep throwing it back in my face.
Now let's look at Labour. They have made great strides in Southport local elections in recent years and came a very respectable second in the last general election.
So we have a controversial plan being pushed by the council's controlling Labour Group. The big question is: will Southport's Labour councillors follow party lines and support the plan and will they be rebels and vote against it?
And the Liberal Democrats in the town? The most positive comment I've seen today comes from Lib Dem leader and former MP John Pugh. He predicts there will have to be compromises and changes, which hopefully will be agreed with common sense. He's right.
And the plans to turn parts of the town centre into a “liveable area”?
That's another controversy for another day.
Who said local politics are boring?
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Lol - the motoring fraternity's hard core has gone and shot itself in the foot with this one......By sending in multiple replies to the consultation, they've given Sefton the perfect excuse to ignore the obviously biased result!
Imo, these consultations should be hand-delivered to the people who live on the proposed route/s. Because predictably, on-line consultations for cycling improvements will always attract the 'usual suspects' who don't want bikes full stop. Duh!
N.B. We don't see the local cycling community pulling such low-down tricks, being content with one vote per rider.
Last edited by The PNP; 15/10/2021 at 06:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Lol - the motoring fraternity's hard core has gone and shot itself in the foot with this one......By sending in multiple replies to the consultation, they've given Sefton the perfect excuse to ignore the obviously biased result!
Imo, these consultations should be hand-delivered to the people who live on the proposed route/s. Because predictably, on-line consultations for cycling improvements will always attract/be hijacked by the 'usual suspects' who don't want bikes full stop. Duh!
Typical of you to be Judge, Jury and Executioner yet again. You, just like that prick John Fairclough, have no proof whatsoever that one person has put in multiple submissions. I would suggest that IF Fairclough has any actual evidence of one person having entered multiple submissions, he should produce some real proof for us all to see.
Last edited by justbecause; 15/10/2021 at 06:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by justbecause
Typical of you to be Judge, Jury and Executioner yet again. You, just like that prick John Fairclough have no proof whatsoever that one person has put in multiple submissions. I would suggest that IF Fairclough has any actual evidence of one person having entered multiple submissions, he should produce some real proof for us all to see.
That information would indeed be most enlightening. I look forward to seeing just who they are.
I guess someone has to hate bikes, but cannot ever understand why that should be, as the bike is the most innocuous form of transport ever. In total contrast to the car, a bike is silent, smell-free, takes up minimal space, is rarely lethal to others, and improves the users health. Why, the act of cycling is such a pleasure, people even do it for fun!
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Publish the consultation results and stop making excuses at 'Animal Farm'! As a regular cyclist in Southport who does not want these waste of money lanes I want to see the results of the consultation!
I do not want to read propaganda from Councillors bleating about multiple submissions from the same IP Address (might be one apartment block with one laptop between them) and I definitely do not want to see further stupidity from the self appointed Southport 'Perfect N a Prick' representative for Cycling when he doesn't even live here!
Get your House in Order Sefton, publish the Consultation results, everyone in Birkdale wants to see it before you dessimate our Village just as you've done to Southport town centre!!!
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Originally Posted by Tallboy
Get your House in Order Sefton, publish the Consultation results, everyone in Birkdale wants to see it before you dessimate our Village just as you've done to Southport town centre!!!
Er, that's decimate, mate - duh!
Imo, its cars that have 'dessimated' Birkdale village, not bikes. Simply crossing the road has become fraught with risk, due to sight-lines obscured by so many parked-up Chelsea tractors. Whenever the barriers are down, the whole place fills with exhaust fumes, which then drift into the shops.....Why can't people switch off their engines at those times, or does the cost of half a gallon of fuel mean so little nowadays?
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Originally Posted by Tallboy
Publish the consultation results and stop making excuses at 'Animal Farm'! As a regular cyclist in Southport who does not want these waste of money lanes I want to see the results of the consultation!
I do not want to read propaganda from Councillors bleating about multiple submissions from the same IP Address (might be one apartment block with one laptop between them) and I definitely do not want to see further stupidity from the self appointed Southport 'Perfect N a Prick' representative for Cycling when he doesn't even live here!
Get your House in Order Sefton, publish the Consultation results, everyone in Birkdale wants to see it before you dessimate our Village just as you've done to Southport town centre!!!
Oh dear another ‘angry’ from Southport getting their knickers in a twist.
If you were keeping yourself up to date you’d know the consultation results are to be made public on November 1st.
An entire apartment block sharing a laptop? Yeah sure, clutching at straws there. Rofl.
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Imo, these consultations should be hand-delivered to the people who live on the proposed route/s. Because predictably, on-line consultations for cycling improvements will always attract the 'usual suspects' who don't want bikes full stop. Duh!
Once again you spout rubbish, if you bother to read any posts you must by now realise that the "usual suspects" have nothing against bikes at all it is the idiots that ride them ILLEGALLY. One of the pavement gang I saw yesterday actually collided with a wheelie bin who do you think wasn't paying attention the bin or the cyclist ( I'll help you the bin was just stood there minding it's own business).
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Originally Posted by Little Londoner
A) Once again you spout rubbish, if you bother to read any posts you must by now realise that the "usual suspects" have nothing against bikes at all it is the idiots that ride them ILLEGALLY.
B) One of the pavement gang I saw yesterday actually collided with a wheelie bin who do you think wasn't paying attention the bin or the cyclist ( I'll help you the bin was just stood there minding it's own business).
A) Imo, objecting to any and every attempt to provide infrastructure to promote bike use, says otherwise.
B) A perfect example of the lack of dedicated cycle tarmac.....When roads are full of traffic, left with no other alternative some will take to the pavements, which in turn puts pedestrians (and wheelie bins!) at risk.
Last edited by The PNP; 15/10/2021 at 08:34 PM.
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You don't need one laptop in a block of flats. The IP address could be traced - lots of places provide free Wi-Fi.
The councillor is clutching at straws because of the depth of disagreement in Southport towards these lanes and he hates the idea that he can't spend money to mess up the town even further.
While Mr Hovden is entitled to his political allegiances, it's plain to see whose side he agrees with. Not very balanced reporting!
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Originally Posted by The PNP
That information would indeed be most enlightening. I look forward to seeing just who they are.
I guess someone has to hate bikes, but cannot ever understand why that should be, as the bike is the most innocuous form of transport ever. In total contrast to the car, a bike is silent, smell-free, takes up minimal space, is rarely lethal to others, and improves the users health. Why, the act of cycling is such a pleasure, people even do it for fun!
There are very few who actually hate bikes, what is getting most people’s backs up is this wholesale attempt to carve up the road structure to provide for a barely visible minority.
Your idea that provide exclusive cycling facilities and cyclists will appear as of by magic has already been shown to be a fallacy.
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[QUOTE=The PNP;6789272]A) Imo, objecting to any and every attempt to provide infrastructure to promote bike use, says otherwise.
Why spend money creating something that 90% of "cyclists" will not use when the pavement is used as a racetrack by choice. A REAL census on the use of current cycle lanes will prove my point.
B) A perfect example of the lack of dedicated cycle tarmac.....When roads are full of traffic, left with no other alternative some will take to the pavements, which in turn puts pedestrians (and wheelie bins!) at risk.[/QUOTE
"SOME" ? as above Do you want pictures of teenagers riding on the pavement holding their phone with both hands without any idea of WHO or WHAT is in front of them. Can you please go and live in this Cloud Cuckoo land you keep describing where cyclists behave responsibly and abide by current laws and by laws because spending money that is currently in short supply and has minimal usage is criminal to provide something that whenever I go out is completely unused.
?Perhaps you can furnish us with times that the cyclist uses the current provisions.
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Originally Posted by libraryguy
A) The councillor is clutching at straws because of the depth of disagreement in Southport towards these lanes and he hates the idea that he can't spend money to mess up the town even further.
B) While Mr Hovden is entitled to his political allegiances, it's plain to see whose side he agrees with. Not very balanced reporting!
A) I expect there would be equal indignance from motorists, if the town had never had pavements and this scheme was about belatedly providing some. E.g. remember motorists reactions when Chapel Street pedestrianisation was proposed?
Fact is, motorists want all the tarmac to themselves, always have done and always will. Even now, with our world at risk from rising sealevels and climate catastrophe, the same old selfish attitude prevails - duh!
B) Personally, I've never equated cycling with politics. But just as with Brexit, there's always some who will do. To me, it's more about what makes the most sense. Instead of choking towns to death with motor vehicles, I recognise that there are alternatives which are better for our health and our environment.
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Originally Posted by libraryguy
You don't need one laptop in a block of flats. The IP address could be traced
Since when did everyone in a block of flats share 1 internet connection?
- lots of places provide free Wi-Fi.
Like the library, libraryguy.
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