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We all know that the Justice system in this Country is a very sick joke but it hit new depths of stupidity yesterday when the Bristol mob who pulled down a statue and dumped it into the docks were found not guilty of Criminal Damage by the twelve lunatics allowed on jury service.
Anything a group of people don't like can be destroyed by them with impunity as anyone can claim it was the result of an illegal act that the statue / monument/ building/ bench was placed there to commemorate anything they wish to dream up.
Surely the accused should have at least had their descendants past investigated so that their freedom could have been taken away because their forefathers had Criminal Records.
Why not go back to the stone age were someone was killed by a person jealous of the luxurious cave he lived in and wanted it for himself. We have History both good and bad and is it up to a gang of vandals to decide what should and shouldn't be commemorated.
Have to agree, even a child could see it was criminal damage, who the statue is of is entirely irrelevant. If I slash some nutters prized painting of Hitler, it's still criminal damage....I'm sure it is also illegal to dump things into the harbour, so they probably committed a second offence by doing that.
"We all know that the Justice system in this Country is a very sick joke but it hit new depths of stupidity yesterday when the Bristol mob who pulled down a statue and dumped it into the docks were found not guilty of Criminal Damage by the twelve lunatics allowed on jury service."
Colston was in charge of a child trafficking organisation (the Royal African Company) that branded children as young as nine and which was responsible for 44 thousand deaths.
Of course society isn't going to put up with having statues of child trafficking monsters littering our beautiful towns and cities, and I'm glad the jury had the sense to see this.
Allowing the jury to interpret the law according to their peers individual circumstances demonstrates the beauty of the English jury system rather than being compelled to follow the letter of the law.
The core fact was the celebration of Colston as a righteous and honoured subject being an offence to the people of Bristol.
It was argued Bristol Council should have removed the statues as a duty to the public.
I cannot dissagree with that.
Criminal damage point is difficult.
No denying it was done there was a large crowd not caught on camera (identifiably) also complicit.
We all know that the Justice system in this Country is a very sick joke but it hit new depths of stupidity yesterday when the Bristol mob who pulled down a statue and dumped it into the docks were found not guilty of Criminal Damage by the twelve lunatics allowed on jury service.
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"the Justice system" is no joke! Trail by a jury of your peers is at the heart of English legal rights hard won over many centuries. English history is replete with occasions when juries have acquitted defendants apparently in spite of the letter of the law. Had it not been so, absolutism would have prevailed.
Acts of rebellion in the face of unjust laws made English law. But English liberty is never safe against malign instincts of governments. Our current government is enacting further limitations on the right to protest, inter alia.
Thank you lucky stars some people have had the gonads to stand-up to injustice!
Shall we go into Liverpool and burn the buildings that were built with money from the slave trade?
Liverpool town hall for instance. I believe the exterior has decorative friezes showing African faces, elephants, crocodiles and lions, all references to the slave trade where Liverpool gained much of its wealth.
All of the city's mayors between 1787 and 1807 were involved in the slave trade, if there are any statues to these mayors, shall we go, pull them down and dump them in the Albert Dock. Was it the Albert dock where the slave ships arrived, if so, lets go and burn it down.
William Atkinson gave money to have The Atkinson built, his money came from the cotton trade, and possible the slave trade...
I wonder how many of the commentators have any connection to Bristol. Arguments about the Atkinson are irrelevant because they are in a different context.
I don't suppose anybody on the forum believes that the toppled statues of Saddam Hussein, Nicolae Ceausescu and Hitler were acts of vandalism.
Probably all posters on here would agree that vandalism of the statue of Churchill would be wrong although.I hope you would acknowledge that the unequalled war leader and author had many darker aspects to his life and character.
So acceptable protest vs vandalism is a matter of degree.
I am from Bristol originally, and I am white. Edward Colston was a slave trader, he wasn't of his time like Atkinson ,he made his fortune kidnapping black people and then selling the few that survived the journey. In my day, Colston ran through the city, there was the ugly statue, two large schools and the cities main concert venue. Bristol is a multicultural city and has been for many many years, in particular it has a very large population of Afro-Carribean heritage. To them, Colston was a celebration of a time when white people could own black people.
I don't feel that I should apologise for crimes against black people that I am not implicated in, but I certainly don't think I should be celebrating those crimes.
Colston was in charge of a child trafficking organisation (the Royal African Company) that branded children as young as nine and which was responsible for 44 thousand deaths.
Of course society isn't going to put up with having statues of child trafficking monsters littering our beautiful towns and cities, and I'm glad the jury had the sense to see this.
Allowing the jury to interpret the law according to their peers individual circumstances demonstrates the beauty of the English jury system rather than being compelled to follow the letter of the law.
So what next, will it be acceptable to go out and trash all Japanese and German cars because of the atrocities that happened during WW2.
Do the same to VW Beetle car’s because Hitler called them “the peoples car”
Set fire to all Hugo Boss shops and clothing because they supplied uniforms to the Nazi army and SS.
Where do you draw the line as to what’s ok to vandalise and what’s not.
History cannot be erased or changed, we should learn from it and ensure bad history isn’t repeated.
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So what next, will it be acceptable to go out and trash all Japanese and German cars because of the atrocities that happened during WW2.
Do the same to VW Beetle car’s because Hitler called them “the peoples car”
Set fire to all Hugo Boss shops and clothing because they supplied uniforms to the Nazi army and SS.
Where do you draw the line as to what’s ok to vandalise and what’s not.
History cannot be erased or changed, we should learn from it and ensure bad history isn’t repeated.
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That is precisely the point, nobody is trying to erase or change history, people are trying to correct mistruths this is how we ensure that these things will not be repeated, our children must be taught the truth.
That is precisely the point, nobody is trying to erase or change history, people are trying to correct mistruths this is how we ensure that these things will not be repeated, our children must be taught the truth.
If you object to something or something offends you, taking to the streets in acts of violence isn’t the answer.
Albion
“I don't suppose anybody on the forum believes that the toppled statues of Saddam Hussein, Nicolae Ceausescu and Hitler were acts of vandalism”.
These were the acts of invading armies and a whole country in revolution that after Ceausescu’s escape helicopter landed in a field he was caught and put to death there’s a bit of a difference between that and a rebel crowd destroying public property. It’s a delicate subject but British history like it or not, there’s 2 ways of looking at it one is to remove the statues in disgust or let them remain as a reminder that this should never happen again, I wouldn’t know where to stop with this so it’s best not to start.
Now anyone can pull down statues it seems .
Have to agree, even a child could see it was criminal damage, who the statue is of is entirely irrelevant.If I slash some nutters prized painting of Hitler, it's still criminal damage....I'm sure it is also illegal to dump things into the harbour, so they probably committed a second offence by doing that.
It's an inevitable development.
Targeted cancel culture, no-platforming, defunding, etc, developed into taking physical group action against getting rid of an offending something. Now that action has been given the green light by a jury, how long before people taking physical action against people is generally seen and accepted as a right and just thing to do?
A massively more dangerous and indeed literally deadly level of attack, but I presume the US Capitol attackers very much believed they were doing the right thing too. That's an example of the Right believing they were doing something that would very much be viewed as being on the right side of history.
Generally, it's amusing and sad to listen to people who defended the Capitol attack having a problem with the Bristol statue vandals; likewise, it's amusing and sad to listen people who had a problem with the US Capitol rioters defending this.
But people do dismiss one incident while attacking the other. Happily incapable of seeing past their own bias.
You're consistent in that you've disagreed with both both incidents.
That is precisely the point, nobody is trying to erase or change history, people are trying to correct mistruths this is how we ensure that these things will not be repeated, our children must be taught the truth.
Are you, a racist, trying to take the high moral ground?
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