Article 16

[bensherman]

So the government prepares to walk away from the treaty it signed, in objection to a process which was needed to resolve a problem they created in the first place.. And risks a trade war with the EU, or at the very least the EU fully implementing the rest of the treaty, which is already disabling our economy.

Meanwhile, NI, where the border process is in force, has greater growth and lower inflation than the rest of the UK. Where people did not vote to Leave in the first place, and recently voted into power a party which aims to eliminate the problem by uniting Ireland. And the heavily minority DUP prevents local government because of its objections.

Probably the worst bit of politics we have seen for years.

[local]

So the government prepares to walk away from the treaty it signed, in objection to a process which was needed to resolve a problem they created in the first place.. And risks a trade war with the EU, or at the very least the EU fully implementing the rest of the treaty, which is already disabling our economy.

Meanwhile, NI, where the border process is in force, has greater growth and lower inflation than the rest of the UK. Where people did not vote to Leave in the first place, and recently voted into power a party which aims to eliminate the problem by uniting Ireland. And the heavily minority DUP prevents local government because of its objections.

Probably the worst bit of politics we have seen for years.

Why don't you pick a topic you know and understand ?

Time and time again you have come up short on the subject, I don't understand why you persist.

[bensherman]

Educate us.
I could do with a laugh.
As could all the businessmen, experts and politicians staggered by such all-round ineptitude. Oh, and deception.

[local]

Educate us.
I could do with a laugh.
As could all the businessmen, experts and politicians staggered by such all-round ineptitude. Oh, and deception.

You don't need me as you have proved, again and again, any mirror will do


Telling us that people who didn't want Brexit don't like it now doesn't really work does it.?

You could dredge up a lot of the same players for the Euro debacle we thankfully avoided.


Still, I am sure as this thread develops you will amuse us all with your ignorance and I have little doubt some groupthink members will mean you aren't on your own.

[said]

So the government prepares to walk away from the treaty it signed, in objection to a process which was needed to resolve a problem they created in the first place.. And risks a trade war with the EU, or at the very least the EU fully implementing the rest of the treaty, which is already disabling our economy.

Meanwhile, NI, where the border process is in force, has greater growth and lower inflation than the rest of the UK. Where people did not vote to Leave in the first place, and recently voted into power a party which aims to eliminate the problem by uniting Ireland. And the heavily minority DUP prevents local government because of its objections.

Probably the worst bit of politics we have seen for years.

Several times the issue of Brexit was returned to the Board with neither side being able to agree, until finally a decision was made that agreed with the EU, the British electorate and the Government. The agreement was uniquely worded to appear as a defined set of regulations, but a closer study of the actual wording allowed a 'get out' clause on most of the issues. That is why it got through. From that understanding, the electorate had some idea of what the Government was proposing to do.

There have already been several changes to the original bill, i.e. immigration, changes in domestic law as opposed to EU Law, Data Protection and Procurement Laws, etc.,

The economic situation is not due to Brexit. It is a situation tied in with the weakened American dollar and World marketing - hence the adoption of singular methods by which to kick start the economy.

[bensherman]

The DUP only operate in Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland voted against Brexit.

So they have continued to push for something their constituents don't want.

The border issue received as much thought during the Brexit campaign as most other things did, ie none.

It did not take a genius to see that the EU could not tolerate a threat to the Single Market it has taken 30 years to create, and which has been a major reason why its key economies prosper and now surpass us.

May had a better solution but it was swamped in Johnson's game-playing resigning in protest at something he was able to agree to once he had managed to subjugate the national interest to his own career ambitions. Lying to the DUP about what he would do was a minor transgression, but their stupidity in believing him and not asking about the likely alternative , is probably justice.

Nonetheless we have this arrangement now and as it happens the DUP is once again out of step with the people it claims to represent. They find the arrangement keeps them part of our economy while having the benefits of the Single Market. They have higher growth than us and lower inflation. Indeed the conditions the remaining EU are experiencing ( is THAT the "debacle" you refer to?).

Even the cretin Duncan-Smith told them "they had the best of both worlds"...true to an extent, but they do still have to suffer this appalling government.

The behaviour of this government in this matter is spectacularly inept in doing further harm to our international reputation, decreasing the likelihood of us restoring even reasonable levels of trade with our most-important-by-far foreign market, and increasing the chances of a united Ireland.

I guess I must have missed your educational input...

[Dirac]

The DUP only operate in Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland voted against Brexit.

So they have continued to push for something their constituents don't want.

The border issue received as much thought during the Brexit campaign as most other things did, ie none.

It did not take a genius to see that the EU could not tolerate a threat to the Single Market it has taken 30 years to create, and which has been a major reason why its key economies prosper and now surpass us.

May had a better solution but it was swamped in Johnson's game-playing resigning in protest at something he was able to agree to once he had managed to subjugate the national interest to his own career ambitions. Lying to the DUP about what he would do was a minor transgression, but their stupidity in believing him and not asking about the likely alternative , is probably justice.

Nonetheless we have this arrangement now and as it happens the DUP is once again out of step with the people it claims to represent. They find the arrangement keeps them part of our economy while having the benefits of the Single Market. They have higher growth than us and lower inflation. Indeed the conditions the remaining EU are experiencing ( is THAT the "debacle" you refer to?).

Even the cretin Duncan-Smith told them "they had the best of both worlds"...true to an extent, but they do still have to suffer this appalling government.

The behaviour of this government in this matter is spectacularly inept in doing further harm to our international reputation, decreasing the likelihood of us restoring even reasonable levels of trade with our most-important-by-far foreign market, and increasing the chances of a united Ireland.

I guess I must have missed your educational input...

Lovely bunch the DUP.
May, of course, gave them a billion pounds of our money as a Brexit Bung, too.
The Tories can always be trusted with our money...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...bung-qdwnkgbs6

[said]

The DUP only operate in Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland voted against Brexit.

So they have continued to push for something their constituents don't want.

The border issue received as much thought during the Brexit campaign as most other things did, ie none.

It did not take a genius to see that the EU could not tolerate a threat to the Single Market it has taken 30 years to create, and which has been a major reason why its key economies prosper and now surpass us.

May had a better solution but it was swamped in Johnson's game-playing resigning in protest at something he was able to agree to once he had managed to subjugate the national interest to his own career ambitions. Lying to the DUP about what he would do was a minor transgression, but their stupidity in believing him and not asking about the likely alternative , is probably justice.

Nonetheless we have this arrangement now and as it happens the DUP is once again out of step with the people it claims to represent. They find the arrangement keeps them part of our economy while having the benefits of the Single Market. They have higher growth than us and lower inflation. Indeed the conditions the remaining EU are experiencing ( is THAT the "debacle" you refer to?).

Even the cretin Duncan-Smith told them "they had the best of both worlds"...true to an extent, but they do still have to suffer this appalling government.

The behaviour of this government in this matter is spectacularly inept in doing further harm to our international reputation, decreasing the likelihood of us restoring even reasonable levels of trade with our most-important-by-far foreign market, and increasing the chances of a united Ireland.

I guess I must have missed your educational input...

Far too many media pipe dreams in your response. The nationalist majority boycotted the voting remember? Because they did not want the EU or the UK - they wanted independence.

The Border issue should have no big thing - Norway and Sweden have been operating a similar Border for many years with little problem.

There is no threat to a strong single market. The UK has the most free trade after the EU, but can adapt to changing markets much faster since it does not have to consider 26 other members. There are several trading blocs across the World, the EU was finding it difficult to arrange trading with those who belonged to a trading block that satisfied its own domestic needs, as opposed to a European one. The EU operates a selective bargaining market, which is seen to be very unfair to competition among its member countries. Not all member countries receive equal treatment. Recall also - a single market meant certain member countries had to be restricted in what goods they traded, therefore increasing domestic prices and reducing a workforce. Observations contradict EU claims in that they stimulate economic growth, employment and competition, that is misleading.

No - May's agreement aligned with the wishes of the EU not the British people and not for domestic products.

Ireland, both North and South are supported financially by the UK. The Republic of Ireland received most grants from the UK.

[Hamble]

Lovely bunch the DUP.
May, of course, gave them a billion pounds of our money as a Brexit Bung, too.
The Tories can always be trusted with our money...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...bung-qdwnkgbs6

At least it was not their soul as Labour did.

https://feweek.co.uk/labour-under-fi...-constituency/

[Toodles McGinty]

At least it was not their soul as Labour did.

https://feweek.co.uk/labour-under-fi...-constituency/

A bit weak. Attending a rally in a community of Muslims, or buying an election? Not really any equivalence.

Which I agree with Tatchell on most things, I'm wondering what he'd have those politicians do. 7 years ago.

Should they have forced the men and women to sit together? Rode roughshod over their feelings? Walked out of the rally?

Do you think Tory or Lib-Dem politicians would have done any different?

As you know, I've no time for archaic religions, even less for those that separate men and women in some dark ages throwback, but there are quite a few, sadly. In mosques, synagogues, temples. But I doubt that politicians of any ilk would have started shouting 'mingle or we leave'.

Not a political equivalence, just outright 'whataboutery'.

[Alikado]

At least it was not their soul as Labour did.

https://feweek.co.uk/labour-under-fi...-constituency/

It was the womens choice whether to utilise an an area set aside for women or sit in the other area.

[Hamble]

A bit weak. Attending a rally in a community of Muslims, or buying an election? Not really any equivalence.

Which I agree with Tatchell on most things, I'm wondering what he'd have those politicians do. 7 years ago.

Should they have forced the men and women to sit together? Rode roughshod over their feelings? Walked out of the rally?

Do you think Tory or Lib-Dem politicians would have done any different?

As you know, I've no time for archaic religions, even less for those that separate men and women in some dark ages throwback, but there are quite a few, sadly. In mosques, synagogues, temples. But I doubt that politicians of any ilk would have started shouting 'mingle or we leave'.

Not a political equivalence, just outright 'whataboutery'.

Of course it is not a 'political equivalence'.

Money to the DUP came with a specific clause that it was for the benefit of all communities whatever their religion or political vote.

Whearas Labour campaigned with abandonment of all it professed to uphold to one section of the community.

[said]

A bit weak. Attending a rally in a community of Muslims, or buying an election? Not really any equivalence.

Which I agree with Tatchell on most things, I'm wondering what he'd have those politicians do. 7 years ago.

Should they have forced the men and women to sit together? Rode roughshod over their feelings? Walked out of the rally?

Do you think Tory or Lib-Dem politicians would have done any different?

As you know, I've no time for archaic religions, even less for those that separate men and women in some dark ages throwback, but there are quite a few, sadly. In mosques, synagogues, temples. But I doubt that politicians of any ilk would have started shouting 'mingle or we leave'.

Not a political equivalence, just outright 'whataboutery'.

As far as religious beliefs go - the Muslims and the Jewish people have very similar beliefs. All religions, Muslim, Judaism, Hinduism, Protestant and Catholics have the same ten commandments originating, as it is claimed, from Moses on Mount Sinai. Muslims adhere to Islam which is both political and religious, both Muslims and Jews are very similar in having a trading 'Brotherhood' - yet they are constantly bickering at one another. Seikhs follow the ten commandments, these are more extensive in meaning for Sikhism.
Not a lot of difference between any actual religion - it is how religion is interpreted causes the differences.

By the way - I have a free copy of the Qu'ran if anyone is interested?

[Hamble]

It was the womens choice whether to utilise an an area set aside for women or sit in the other area.

Post a link on that?

Labour refused to comment at the time.

[Hamble]

As far as religious beliefs go - the Muslims and the Jewish people have very similar beliefs. All religions, Muslim, Judaism, Hinduism, Protestant and Catholics have the same ten commandments originating, as it is claimed, from Moses on Mount Sinai. Muslims adhere to Islam which is both political and religious, both Muslims and Jews are very similar in having a trading 'Brotherhood' - yet they are constantly bickering at one another. Seikhs follow the ten commandments, these are more extensive in meaning for Sikhism.
Not a lot of difference between any actual religion - it is how religion is interpreted causes the differences.

By the way - I have a free copy of the Qu'ran if anyone is interested?

Not to be encouraged in any public place except religious buildings.

https://www.channel4.com/news/pander...er-segregation