Project Fear - duh!

[seivad]

A) I did read your full post, that's how I came across your mention of subsidised gas, buried within a paragraph.

B) Yes, but by bringing mention of a fuel into the thread, you unwittingly gave 'local' the cue to start up with his wearysome 'super-polluter' routine. From there on, Brexit/Project Fear became 'Let's Have a Go at Stoves and Anyone Supplying Them'.

Oh dear, should we add the words gas, electricity and petrol to the forum's naughty word list? Here in Ontario our electricity bills come from Hydro One. Nobody ever uses the word electricity. It's always called Hydro. I can use that term in future posts. We say gas, not petrol, but that would cause more problems for you.

As an equal opportunity forum, we should also add the words car, roads and traffic to the naughty list. The very mention of these words sends you into a wearisome super polluter routine.

How can I be an eco-hypocrite re woodpellets, as I've never posted in support of their usage? I do know there are automatically-fed domestic/industrial boilers, that use woodpellets. I had a good look at one in Great Eccleston (at the Country Show) some years ago. But we don't supply or install them.

I believe that we both agree that the reduction of global emissions is vital for our planet. Yet you seem to be blind to any issues outside of your own little corner of the world, issues that are, in some instances, caused by the country you live in. If it's not in your own personal sphere of interest, wood stoves, cycling etc., you don't appear to know a thing about it, and you're not even bothered to find out. That's what makes you an Eco-hypocrite. I know the issues in my own country, many of which are due to our dirty oil production, but I also know what's going on beyond my own doorstep. No matter where we live in the world, it affects us all.

D) Because compared to neighbouring countries like Nederland and Denmark, usage is around a tenth of what it could/should be. And the only difference between us and NL/DK, is our lack of comparable bike infrastructure. Which is why I campaign for getting it put in. Taking a third of cars off the roads would save a shedload of CO2.

E) Stoves, even old ones, emit no particulates at all for over six months of the year, i.e. in Summer. During that time, when smog risk/health damage is at its highest, the prime culprits are all cars - inc 'locals' car!

How do you know what type of a car Local drives? Or where and what he does for a living? He could drive an electric car, or hybrid. The distance he has to travel could make cycling impractical. Or his job could involve being on the road every day, visiting clients, performing services etc. Just as you have to travel in your work vehicle.

From comments Local has made it's quite obvious that he cycles quite a lot. He just doesn't expect everyone else to follow suit.

The UK isn't Nederland. The latter has always had a cycle culture. Apart from recreational purposes, the UK has not. I doubt that the 'if you build it they will come' approach will work in the UK.

[Stuartli]

There is a very wide variety of views expressed depending on whether your engine is a 24 hour exposure to a colourful, dramatic body of all knowing actor experts or a few hours a day absorbed in books specialising in deep studies. The first is associated with fairy tales while the second deals with facts.

The first paragraph has been written by someone who doesn't know when to use the words "is" or "are" correctly, so I'll just ignore your self-belief on just how intelligent you consider yourself.

[local]

Oh dear, should we add the words gas, electricity and petrol to the forum's naughty word list? Here in Ontario our electricity bills come from Hydro One. Nobody ever uses the word electricity. It's always called Hydro. I can use that term in future posts. We say gas, not petrol, but that would cause more problems for you.

As an equal opportunity forum, we should also add the words car, roads and traffic to the naughty list. The very mention of these words sends you into a wearisome super polluter routine.


I believe that we both agree that the reduction of global emissions is vital for our planet. Yet you seem to be blind to any issues outside of your own little corner of the world, issues that are, in some instances, caused by the country you live in. If it's not in your own personal sphere of interest, wood stoves, cycling etc., you don't appear to know a thing about it, and you're not even bothered to find out. That's what makes you an Eco-hypocrite. I know the issues in my own country, many of which are due to our dirty oil production, but I also know what's going on beyond my own doorstep. No matter where we live in the world, it affects us all.


How do you know what type of a car Local drives? Or where and what he does for a living? He could drive an electric car, or hybrid. The distance he has to travel could make cycling impractical. Or his job could involve being on the road every day, visiting clients, performing services etc. Just as you have to travel in your work vehicle.

From comments Local has made it's quite obvious that he cycles quite a lot. He just doesn't expect everyone else to follow suit.

The UK isn't Nederland. The latter has always had a cycle culture. Apart from recreational purposes, the UK has not. I doubt that the 'if you build it they will come' approach will work in the UK.

No don't follow me on my bike I crashed it (entirely my fault)


I do notice how few people use many of the cycle lanes I could get quite self-conscious at this rate.

I purposely don't pontificate about my transport as it would be hypocritical without the greenest form available or none if it wasn't being used.

I certainly don't use dirty old diesel vans or buses.

I could not claim to be green whilst actively destroying trees and their habitats but perhaps even more important to me the effect on peoples and particularly childrens lungs.

[The PNP]

A) I believe that we both agree that the reduction of global emissions is vital for our planet. Yet you seem to be blind to any issues outside of your own little corner of the world, issues that are, in some instances, caused by the country you live in. If it's not in your own personal sphere of interest, wood stoves, cycling etc., you don't appear to know a thing about it, and you're not even bothered to find out. That's what makes you an Eco-hypocrite. I know the issues in my own country, many of which are due to our dirty oil production, but I also know what's going on beyond my own doorstep. No matter where we live in the world, it affects us all.

B) How do you know what type of a car Local drives? Or where and what he does for a living? He could drive an electric car, or hybrid. The distance he has to travel could make cycling impractical. Or his job could involve being on the road every day, visiting clients, performing services etc. Just as you have to travel in your work vehicle.

C) The UK isn't Nederland. The latter has always had a cycle culture. Apart from recreational purposes, the UK has not. I doubt that the 'if you build it they will come' approach will work in the UK.

A) Yes we both agree on that first point, i.e. that CO2 has to be drastically reduced no matter what - and pretty soon too. I focus my efforts on this corner of the world, because that's where I am. But don't mistake that for a lack of concern for what else is going on around the globe, as the atmosphere in every country is all connected.

B) I know more about 'local' than he would ever have realised (until now, lol). Because a long-time acquaintance of mine for over 40years, lives in his neighbourhood and coincidentally also happens to know him. Btw, I didn't go looking for info on 'local', I've far better things to get on with than tracking down some silly wally. I had/have no interest whatsoever in what he does, etc. Having said that, when the acquaintance approached me, entirely unsolicited and came out with it all, I did have a good laugh!

That's how I became aware of locals coal-picking off a certain beach, etc. Which of course makes 'local' an arch eco-hypocrite for calling others out, whilst at the same time burning seacoal himself. I'm sure you are aware that coal is not only a source of CO2, but also releases soot, lots of nasty particulates and noxious sulphur dioxide.

N.B. Don't worry 'local'. Out of respect for you as a fellow-poster, I will never reveal anything I was told - apart from 'seacoalgate' which I simply couldn't reist.

C) Contrary to what you claimed in your post, pre-war the UK did actually have a good cycle culture, which even extended into the '50's. Also, the cycle culture of NL back in the 70's, was not nearly as big as it now is. The car boom of the '60's saw cycling in NL take a dive. It was only when their Govt began a long-term programme of investment in bike infrastructure, that the rot began to be reversed. Since then, unlike the UK, fifty years of real investment has produced an incredible cycle network. It's no surprise with such a magnificent (and safe) network now at their disposal, that many NL'ers now choose to cycle.

[local]

A) Yes we both agree on that first point, i.e. that CO2 has to be drastically reduced no matter what - and pretty soon too. I focus my efforts on this corner of the world, because that's where I am. But don't mistake that for a lack of concern for what else is going on around the globe, as the atmosphere in every country is all connected.

B) I know more about 'local' than he would ever have realised (until now, lol). Because a long-time acquaintance of mine for over 40years, lives in his neighbourhood and coincidentally also happens to know him. Btw, I didn't go looking for info on 'local', I've far better things to get on with than tracking down some silly wally. I had/have no interest whatsoever in what he does, etc. Having said that, when the acquaintance approached me, entirely unsolicited and came out with it all, I did have a good laugh!

That's how I became aware of locals coal-picking off a certain beach, etc. Which of course makes 'local' an arch eco-hypocrite for calling others out, whilst at the same time burning seacoal himself. I'm sure you are aware that coal is not only a source of CO2, but also releases soot, lots of nasty particulates and noxious sulphur dioxide.

N.B. Don't worry 'local'. Out of respect for you as a fellow-poster, I will never reveal anything I was told - apart from 'seacoalgate' which I simply couldn't reist.

C) Contrary to what you claimed in your post, pre-war the UK did actually have a good cycle culture. Also, the cycle culture of NL back in the 70's, was not nearly as big as it now is. The car boom of the '60's saw cycling in NL take a dive. It was only when their Govt began a long-term programme of investment in bike infrastructure, that the rot began to be reversed. Since then, the last fifty years of real investment has produced an incredible cycle network. It's no surprise with such a magnificent (and safe) network now at their disposal, that many NL'ers now choose to cycle.

You definitely have the wrong person I don't and I haven't you can "reveal" what you like you clearly have some wrong information.


Please carry on it will be interesting.

[said]

The atmosphere was not harmed by Hiroshima, Chernobyl + 99 other nuclear accidents,Atomic Bomb testing, wars, volcanoes, etc., so why on earth do you think a few hundred factories along with pollution from firework night, aircraft, shipping etc., it is a mere drop in the ocean (excuse the pun)The atmosphere is vast and forever changing. The whole of the world's population to the atmosphere is like billions of microbes sitting on a leaf in a mighty ocean. Those microbes cannot do any harm no matter what they do - and apart from blowing countries up, neither can man.

[local]

The atmosphere was not harmed by Hiroshima, Chernobyl + 99 other nuclear accidents,Atomic Bomb testing, wars, volcanoes, etc., so why on earth do you think a few hundred factories along with pollution from firework night, aircraft, shipping etc., it is a mere drop in the ocean (excuse the pun)The atmosphere is vast and forever changing. The whole of the world's population to the atmosphere is like billions of microbes sitting on a leaf in a mighty ocean. Those microbes cannot do any harm no matter what they do - and apart from blowing countries up, neither can man.

Just out of interest do you smoke?

[said]

Deep under the oceans are what are known as 'Black Smokers' or 'White Smokers' depending on what chemicals are being ejected from the subduction zones, Around these hypo-thermal vents, the sea water is much warmer and dense with chemicals. It was always thought that no sea creature could exist near these smoker's because of the alien conditions. But a few years ago, Scientist found there was a rich source of life at the focus of these chimneys. This illustrates that all life forms can adapt to new conditions.

[said]

Just out of interest do you smoke?

Not personally, no. There was an interesting event that occurred some years ago in Birkdale. A furniture warehouse caught alight and the fumes from the burning polyurethane were so thick that many people in the area had to spend a few days in hospital to clear their lungs. The only people who escaped having to do that, were people who smoked because their lungs were protected. So with pollution, people who smoke are more likely to survive than others - Moral - some bad things could be for the good.

[local]

Not personally, no. There was an interesting event that occurred some years ago in Birkdale. A furniture warehouse caught alight and the fumes from the burning polyurethane were so thick that many people in the area had to spend a few days in hospital to clear their lungs. The only people who escaped having to do that, were people who smoked because their lungs were protected. So with pollution, people who smoke are more likely to survive than others - Moral - some bad things could be for the good.

That's a whole new paper for you Prof;

The Preventative Power Of Smoking?

How does it fit with your vaccine theories?


A quick scan of the Google gave;

Some studies have suggested that smoking may be associated with a reduced risk of developing thyroid cancer,


So I remain on the fence there might be something in it.

[seivad]

I know more about 'local' than he would ever have realised (until now, lol). Because a long-time acquaintance of mine for over 40years, lives in his neighbourhood and coincidentally also happens to know him. Btw, I didn't go looking for info on 'local', I've far better things to get on with than tracking down some silly wally. I had/have no interest whatsoever in what he does, etc. Having said that, when the acquaintance approached me, entirely unsolicited and came out with it all, I did have a good laugh!

That's how I became aware of locals coal-picking off a certain beach, etc. Which of course makes 'local' an arch eco-hypocrite for calling others out, whilst at the same time burning seacoal himself. I'm sure you are aware that coal is not only a source of CO2, but also releases soot, lots of nasty particulates and noxious sulphur dioxide.

Obviously I don't know Local, but from his comments on Q I can conjure up a mental image of him, and that image isn't someone who would go grubbing around for coal on the beach.

Why did your acquaintance approach you? Is (s)he a Q member who knows that you are The PNP and follows your interactions with Local? I ask because after a quick check on the Admin CP, there's about 40 members whose first forum name is Local, and pages more where the word local is a distinct part of their name. It's entirely possible that your friend has mistakenly identified 'your' Local as someone else. I'm sceptical.

N.B. Don't worry 'local'. Out of respect for you as a fellow-poster, I will never reveal anything I was told - apart from 'seacoalgate' which I simply couldn't reist.

Aww, I was so looking forward to your next exposé. Panhandling on Chapel Street? Digging like a mole in garbage skips and bins? Drinking with the Lord Street bench fraternity? My mind is boggling over.

C) Contrary to what you claimed in your post, pre-war the UK did actually have a good cycle culture, which even extended into the '50's. Also, the cycle culture of NL back in the 70's, was not nearly as big as it now is. The car boom of the '60's saw cycling in NL take a dive. It was only when their Govt began a long-term programme of investment in bike infrastructure, that the rot began to be reversed. Since then, unlike the UK, fifty years of real investment has produced an incredible cycle network. It's no surprise with such a magnificent (and safe) network now at their disposal, that many NL'ers now choose to cycle.

I wasn't born pre-war, but I was born shortly after. Of course we had a cycle culture. How many ordinary people could afford to buy a car before the war? and certainly not in the aftermath of WW2 when times were really hard. The minute cars became affordable, people bought them. From that day to this, the pattern hasn't changed. Cycle use is still primarily for recreation. An improved cycle network would be attractive to recreational users, and that's a good thing. But for all other purposes the majority of people won't be swapping their car for a bike. I could never have cycled to work. Too far, challenging weather... stinking hot and humid in Summer, freezing cold and snowy in Winter. And a job where I had to look smart, not a bedraggled sweaty wreck, or Nanook of the North with frostbite

[Alikado]

That's a whole new paper for you Prof;

The Preventative Power Of Smoking?

How does it fit with your vaccine theories?


A quick scan of the Google gave;

Some studies have suggested that smoking may be associated with a reduced risk of developing thyroid cancer,


So I remain on the fence there might be something in it.

'The Preventative Power Of Smoking'

It's quite simple really, if you smoke people keep away from you because they don't like the smoke or the smells or the contamination so you have less chance of catching something from them.
The more you smoke the further they keep away and more notice the coughing and wheezing so they keep away so you have even less chance of catching something from them.

Trouble is instead of dying in your 70's or 80's you cough yourself to death in your 40's or 50's. But Hey Ho you never got the virus - every cloud...........

[said]

That's a whole new paper for you Prof;

The Preventative Power Of Smoking?

How does it fit with your vaccine theories?


A quick scan of the Google gave;

Some studies have suggested that smoking may be associated with a reduced risk of developing thyroid cancer,


So I remain on the fence there might be something in it.

If you can show me any government which is genuinely concerned about people's health - I will show you a liar!

Throughout history, people have been enticed into various situations with all the bells and whistles emphasising what a wonderful opportunity it is, or that the alternative to accepting government advice would create devastation. People are puppets, necessary tools for creating wealth and no more, hence the reason new births are rewarded while the elderly are discarded. Radicals are a thorn in the side because common sense is bad for the economy, while blind obedience is heralded.

As for smoking - I know that several remedies prescribed today contain nicotine, and I know of the example I have given you - there was the fact that a man who held the record for longest life was a regular smoker, the Queen Mother who died at 101 years of age was also a regular smoker. I always suspected that the campaign against smoking had more to do with the balance of payments rather than anyone's health - there is more than half a £billion's worth of imported tobacco shipped to the UK.

[local]

Obviously I don't know Local, but from his comments on Q I can conjure up a mental image of him, and that image isn't someone who would go grubbing around for coal on the beach.

Why did your acquaintance approach you? Is (s)he a Q member who knows that you are The PNP and follows your interactions with Local? I ask because after a quick check on the Admin CP, there's about 40 members whose first forum name is Local, and pages more where the word local is a distinct part of their name. It's entirely possible that your friend has mistakenly identified 'your' Local as someone else. I'm sceptical.


Aww, I was so looking forward to your next exposé. Panhandling on Chapel Street? Digging like a mole in garbage skips and bins? Drinking with the Lord Street bench fraternity? My mind is boggling over.



I wasn't born pre-war, but I was born shortly after. Of course we had a cycle culture. How many ordinary people could afford to buy a car before the war? and certainly not in the aftermath of WW2 when times were really hard. The minute cars became affordable, people bought them. From that day to this, the pattern hasn't changed. Cycle use is still primarily for recreation. An improved cycle network would be attractive to recreational users, and that's a good thing. But for all other purposes the majority of people won't be swapping their car for a bike. I could never have cycled to work. Too far, challenging weather... stinking hot and humid in Summer, freezing cold and snowy in Winter. And a job where I had to look smart, not a bedraggled sweaty wreck, or Nanook of the North with frostbite

It is a load of his usual tosh, feel free to "out me" PNP.

The chances of me going scratting on the beach for a bag of coal is to say the least unlikely I really couldn't be bothered.

I think I have picked the odd piece up with children but not for at least 10 years.

The latest smokescreen from the eco-hypocrite seems to be clearing pretty quickly.

[The PNP]

A) Aww, I was so looking forward to your next exposé. Panhandling on Chapel Street? Digging like a mole in garbage skips and bins? Drinking with the Lord Street bench fraternity? My mind is boggling over.

B)I wasn't born pre-war, but I was born shortly after. Of course we had a cycle culture. How many ordinary people could afford to buy a car before the war? and certainly not in the aftermath of WW2 when times were really hard. The minute cars became affordable, people bought them. From that day to this, the pattern hasn't changed. Cycle use is still primarily for recreation. An improved cycle network would be attractive to recreational users, and that's a good thing. But for all other purposes the majority of people won't be swapping their car for a bike. I could never have cycled to work. Too far, challenging weather... stinking hot and humid in Summer, freezing cold and snowy in Winter. And a job where I had to look smart, not a bedraggled sweaty wreck, or Nanook of the North with frostbite

A) Lol....you have a fertile imagination!

B) Cycle usage wasn't only for recreation back then, far from it. E.g. it was not uncommon early morning, to see workers cycling past my '50's Birkdale bedroom window, with an old gasmask bag slung over their shoulder, as lunchbox to carry their butties. Come to think of it, even the (gas)lamplighter would do his rounds on a bike.

I don't believe there was much difference in bike use between most European (inc UK) countries at that time. Where NL diverged, was in the early '70's when parents became angry about their kids being killed cycling on-road (500 dead children per year!). This was because there wasn't anything like the separate safe infrastructure they now enjoy, coupled with a huge rise in car ownership over the previous decade.

For more on the Dutch parents 1971 campaign: 'Stop de Kindermoord' (stop the child murders) just Google it, there's plenty to read. It all began with one person, a journalist who is said to have coined the phrase. In the end the Dutch Govt relented and agreed to take action, which came in the form of initiating a programme of constructing separate cycle-paths. A programme which continues even to this day.