Nissan To Stay In UK

[seivad]

I don't know anyone who has criticised the NHS.

Me neither, quite the opposite. It's probably one of the few topics on Q where members from both ends of the political spectrum agree. I've read nothing but praise and support for NHS staff, and well deserved it is. They have my utmost admiration, as do all health workers across the globe.

As you say, criticism of the government's handling of the pandemic does not equate to criticising the NHS. To make such a claim is ridiculous... and Local knows it.

[Hamble]

Me neither, quite the opposite. It's probably one of the few topics on Q where members from both ends of the political spectrum agree. I've read nothing but praise and support for NHS staff, and well deserved it is. They have my utmost admiration, as do all health workers across the globe.

As you say, criticism of the government's handling of the pandemic does not equate to criticising the NHS. To make such a claim is ridiculous... and Local knows it.

Is the nhs doing its own thing in this pandemic then?

[local]

Me neither, quite the opposite. It's probably one of the few topics on Q where members from both ends of the political spectrum agree. I've read nothing but praise and support for NHS staff, and well deserved it is. They have my utmost admiration, as do all health workers across the globe.

As you say, criticism of the government's handling of the pandemic does not equate to criticising the NHS. To make such a claim is ridiculous... and Local knows it.

It is far from ridiculous people complain endlessly without thought about the NHS from testing to PPE and death rates.
The NHS workers who actually procure PPE are doing their best in a very difficult market Nobody surely thinks Boris buys and tests it .
Virus Testing is carried out by NHS workers in the main who are working very hard and many hours .I know someone who does it and is sick of the whining from people doing nothing .
The same with the medical staff at the sharp end think before moaning they are dealing with a new virus.
These are the people who feel the criticism after long demoralising shifts

Blaming "The Government" is an easy cop out for careless criticism .

[Alikado]

It is far from ridiculous people complain endlessly without thought about the NHS from testing to PPE and death rates.
The NHS workers who actually procure PPE are doing their best in a very difficult market Nobody surely thinks Boris buys and tests it .
Virus Testing is carried out by NHS workers in the main who are working very hard and many hours .I know someone who does it and is sick of the whining from people doing nothing .
The same with the medical staff at the sharp end think before moaning they are dealing with a new virus.
These are the people who feel the criticism after long demoralising shifts

Blaming "The Government" is an easy cop out for careless criticism .

People are blaming those who set the Policies and who have the ultimate management - the Government, it their policies that has caused the mess with years of cuts and privatisation.

[local]

People are blaming those who set the Policies and who have the ultimate management - the Government, it their policies that has caused the mess with years of cuts and privatisation.

Boris and Matt Hancock whatever you think of them, have not caused the world wide pandemic, caused panic buying of PPE or the blatant overcharging that has followed.

January 11th China reported the first death, we now know it was already in France in December.

The W.H.O was still telling us flights from Wuhan were fine in January thankfully the Trump had the sense to ban entry on the 31st January to anyone who had travelled to China in the last 14 days.

This was a common worldwide response.

The Trump administration’s decision to ban most foreign nationals who had been to China in the last two weeks from traveling to the United States amid an accelerating outbreak of a novel coronavirus there was preceded by calls for similar policies from conservative lawmakers and far-right supporters of the president. Public health experts, however, warn that the move could do more harm than good.



The virus was out, whatever you think the virus was rampant around the world before we knew.

No policies from any government work only with hindsight.

If this was a UK only problem you might have a point.

[silver fox]

It is far from ridiculous people complain endlessly without thought about the NHS from testing to PPE and death rates.
The NHS workers who actually procure PPE are doing their best in a very difficult market Nobody surely thinks Boris buys and tests it .
Virus Testing is carried out by NHS workers in the main who are working very hard and many hours .I know someone who does it and is sick of the whining from people doing nothing .
The same with the medical staff at the sharp end think before moaning they are dealing with a new virus.
These are the people who feel the criticism after long demoralising shifts

Blaming "The Government" is an easy cop out for careless criticism .

We all know that Johnson doesn't personally buy PPE and we all know that he has only been in charge a relatively short while, however he is the PM, leader of our current government and very much part of the party which has systematically cut the NHS to a barely coping level in normal times.

However just for you let's look at the current epidemic problems, did you know that most general and protective equipment comes through the NHS supply chain (a government department) it is their job to supply hospitals from central distribution points, in the event of any epidemic outbreak they are also supposed to be able to supply other medical services with equipment where needed.

When the virus reared it's ugly head our government was actually sending equipment to China, refused to join in with the EU bulk purchase programme, were slow to react when it was blindingly obvious that the virus was spreading, we even had reports of wholesalers and suppliers offering equipment to the government, by the time authorisation made it's way through the equipment had gone, all of this was through a government department whose sole purpose is to supply the NHS.

This FAILURE forced many trusts into trying to buy direct, but was in no way a failure to be laid at the door of the NHS.

NO-ONE but NO-ONE has voiced criticism of front line staff, everyone I know, everything I have seen or read has been nothing but praise for those people, so where is the criticism which you claim is so demoralising? the only things I have seen demoralising are reports of staff having to wear the same equipment for a full shift, because there is no more, of staff going into work unsure if the right equipment is going to be available, of staff told to "make do" with equipment they know is not up to the job. That must border on terrifying not one bit of this is the fault of NHS staff nor does it feature in criticism from the public, many do and quite rightly, criticise the government for their failures, their unpreparedness, their slow reaction to an unfolding crisis and of course the policies of previous governments which left the NHS on the back foot from the outset.

[local]

Again you get it wrong on so many points but just on China and sending them PPE yes we did do the decent thing and they subsequently sent us many times more in return.
Why don't you check your facts before regurgitating this drivel.

[Toodles McGinty]

We all know that Johnson doesn't personally buy PPE and we all know that he has only been in charge a relatively short while, however he is the PM, leader of our current government and very much part of the party which has systematically cut the NHS to a barely coping level in normal times.

However just for you let's look at the current epidemic problems, did you know that most general and protective equipment comes through the NHS supply chain (a government department) it is their job to supply hospitals from central distribution points, in the event of any epidemic outbreak they are also supposed to be able to supply other medical services with equipment where needed.

When the virus reared it's ugly head our government was actually sending equipment to China, refused to join in with the EU bulk purchase programme, were slow to react when it was blindingly obvious that the virus was spreading, we even had reports of wholesalers and suppliers offering equipment to the government, by the time authorisation made it's way through the equipment had gone, all of this was through a government department whose sole purpose is to supply the NHS.

This FAILURE forced many trusts into trying to buy direct, but was in no way a failure to be laid at the door of the NHS.

NO-ONE but NO-ONE has voiced criticism of front line staff, everyone I know, everything I have seen or read has been nothing but praise for those people, so where is the criticism which you claim is so demoralising? the only things I have seen demoralising are reports of staff having to wear the same equipment for a full shift, because there is no more, of staff going into work unsure if the right equipment is going to be available, of staff told to "make do" with equipment they know is not up to the job. That must border on terrifying not one bit of this is the fault of NHS staff nor does it feature in criticism from the public, many do and quite rightly, criticise the government for their failures, their unpreparedness, their slow reaction to an unfolding crisis and of course the policies of previous governments which left the NHS on the back foot from the outset.

Well said.

Trying to connect criticism of the government with criticism of the NHS is typical Brexiteer bullshite. Along the same lines as, if you don't agree with them on anything at all, you're suddenly 'doing the country down' or 'not behind the country'. Absolute crap, but without an actual argument, they are left with the logic of 5 year olds. 'You're wrong, ner-ner-ne-ner-ner'.

The government isn't the NHS. The NHS isn't the government.

The 2012 Social Care Act sought to separate the day to day running of the NHS from the governments micro-managing and interference. The government's basic contribution to the NHS in this crisis was to screw up the testing, didn't lock down the country in time, and leave them begging for PPE.

They didn't lock down when they should have. They knew what was happening in February. On March 12th, Johnson told people to prepare for loved ones dying. Yet didn't lock down, preferring to allow a quarter of a million people to mingle at Cheltenham first.

Cheltenham, owned by the Jockey Cub. The Jockey Club that lobbied for the meeting to go ahead. In a pandemic. The Jockey Club where Dido Harding is a director. Married to a Tory MP and now head of the disastrous 'Test, Track & Trace' programme that is apparently 'world beating' but won't be ready until the end of June at the earliest. Dido Harding who was head of Talk Talk who received a record fine for a data breach involving 4m customers. Whom Johnson called an 'senior executive in the NHS' when she isn't (another Johnson lie, surprise surprise).

All very snouts in the trough and incestuous. But it gets better.

The Jockey Club is probably delighted that horse racing will be the first sport to resume properly tomorrow (1st June). It'll resume at Newmarket next week. The MP for Newmarket has received £100k from the horse racing industry in the past year. The MP for Newmarket is Matt Hancock.

Hmm.

There's so much more. So very much. But criticism of the government is not criticism of the NHS. The only way I'd criticise the NHS over this is if they decided to release Covid patients back into care homes. But I'd wager the government was behind that.

The NHS has had to basically pause itself for this virus. The government didn't provide resources, fund it properly, or plan for a pandemic. Johnson said 'We protected the NHS'. They didn't. They turned it off, for the most part. Cancelled all planned surgeries. Postponed many cancer treatments. Non-Covid A+E admissions down 35%. The fear of the peak, caused by late government reaction, led to virus victims being prioritised over cancer victims. Instead of extra virus victims dying due to exhausted capacity, cancer victims have died. Old people were left to die like animals. No hospital admission, no palliative care.

All in the name of not overwhelming the NHS and thus expose the state ten years of austerity has put it in.

The two are not the same.

[seivad]

It is far from ridiculous people complain endlessly without thought about the NHS from testing to PPE and death rates.
The NHS workers who actually procure PPE are doing their best in a very difficult market Nobody surely thinks Boris buys and tests it .
Virus Testing is carried out by NHS workers in the main who are working very hard and many hours .I know someone who does it and is sick of the whining from people doing nothing .
The same with the medical staff at the sharp end think before moaning they are dealing with a new virus.
These are the people who feel the criticism after long demoralising shifts

Blaming "The Government" is an easy cop out for careless criticism .

How Are Goods and Services Purchased?

The NHS is made up of a complex patchwork of organisations.[5] In England, Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) purchase services locally for each area, which are delivered by hospitals, GP surgeries or other service providers. There are over 200 CCGs in England. (In the devolved administrations, the structure is slightly different: in Scotland and Wales, there is not such a clear purchaser-provider split as regional health boards also deliver some services; in Northern Ireland, a government department oversees health and social care.[6]

In England, most goods are bulk-purchased centrally and distributed to providers by NHS Supply Chain, a wholly-owned company accountable to the secretary of state for health, which was established in 2016. Previously most goods were bought locally by hospitals and other health providers, but a government review found large inefficiencies as organisations paid variable prices for the same product.[7] NHS Supply Chain now manages more than 4.5m orders a year – and aims to carry out 80% of all NHS purchases by volume by 2022.[8] Medicines are procured through a separate system of regional pharmacy purchasing groups.

Who Is Responsible for NHS Procurement?

DHSC is responsible for setting the budget and top-line objectives of the NHS and is ultimately accountable for NHS procurement.In relation to pandemics it determines what is included in the national pandemic stockpile.[9]

NHS England, which is legally independent of DHSC, oversees the commissioning of NHS services and sets strategy.

Public Health England, an executive agency of DHSC, is responsible for dealing with public health emergencies. It issues guidance on who should wear PPE, jointly with DSHC and other bodies, and maintains the national pandemic stockpile.

Source: https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...hs-procurement

[dans77b]

It's a great bit of news for us , despite all those remoaner claims to the contrary Nissan are staying not going.

Thank goodness we ignored all those remoaner scare stories and lies.

Roll on many more, who realise what a great country we have and aren't talked down by the doomsters who tried and are still trying to convince us were no good.

Remember when they promised that things would be BETTER after Brexit?

Yet here we are, celebrating a single story suggesting a factory which is already open, will remain open. No wonder you lot are always 'winning', the way you keep moving the goalposts!!

[silver fox]

Again you get it wrong on so many points but just on China and sending them PPE yes we did do the decent thing and they subsequently sent us many times more in return.
Why don't you check your facts before regurgitating this drivel.

OK, if I’m so wrong, back it up, research if needed, you probably need to do more checking than I do, I repeat NO-ONE has been critical of NHS staff, with that in mind please state these alleged demoralising comments.

No problem with helping another country, but surely that should have rung alarm bells and immediately replenish or increase our stocks and future supplies.

What actually happened was it was decided that this was just a problem for China, when that was quickly proved to be wrong, we got the “take it on the chin” philosophy, followed up with the ill advised “herd immunity” syndrome, in the fullness of time our government woke up to the reality, by then every country in the world had taken action, stocks and supplies of PPE had long gone and once again we are on the back foot.

[Toodles McGinty]

Remember when they promised that things would be BETTER after Brexit?

Yet here we are, celebrating a single story suggesting a factory which is already open, will remain open. No wonder you lot are always 'winning', the way you keep moving the goalposts!!

Ooh, you'll be accused of 'not backing Britain'.

Or 'not backing the NHS'. Or some other bull.

[local]

The same old excuses for running down the NHS and the country.
The same posters all so very familiar

Try and understand the effect of your demoralising whining on other people for a change.

Imagine working in McDonald's which we
know would be a stretch for some of you.

Some customers come in,
"This place is crap run by idiots and people are dropping like flies with food poisoning because they didn't do X or why".

Do you think that's going to cheer them up ?

[seivad]

The same old excuses for running down the NHS and the country.
The same posters all so very familiar

Try and understand the effect of your demoralising whining on other people for a change.

And the same old song from you.

I challenge you to provide links to comments that will support your claim that those you label: "the same posters all so very familiar", are running down the NHS. Perhaps you should learn to differentiate between the government bodies who are responsible for administration of the NHS, and those who work in health care services. There's one hell of a difference.

Imagine working in McDonald's which we
know would be a stretch for some of you.

What exactly do you mean by that? Are you sat on your high horse again, looking down your Roman nose at the plebs surrounding you? I'm surprised that an intellectual of your ilk would spend so much of your time with lesser beings.

[silver fox]

The same old excuses for running down the NHS and the country.
The same posters all so very familiar

Try and understand the effect of your demoralising whining on other people for a change.

Imagine working in McDonald's which we
know would be a stretch for some of you.

Some customers come in,
"This place is crap run by idiots and people are dropping like flies with food poisoning because they didn't do X or why".

Do you think that's going to cheer them up ?

Must be nice to have such a simplistic view, where everything and anything emanating from Johnson and Co is right, any dissent is "running down the country" criticism of government handling of the pandemic suddenly becomes criticism of the NHS.

May be a challenge for you, but try this many of us couldn't care less about Johnson, Cummings, the Tories or indeed many if not most politicians, we do care about OUR country and it's people, we do not accept everything as written in stone, we do not think Johnson or any politician of any flavour walks on water, as long as we have functioning brains and the wit to see what is going on, we reserve the right to comment or challenge.

Your little dream of "ALL HAIL" Johnson is yours and certain obsessed others dream, it isn't shared by all by a long way.

Do you seriously believe that accepting whatever government says without question is supporting in any way, those doing the real work, let's follow your example, send someone out to sweep the streets, give him a shovel but no brush, as long as we keep quiet it will be OK.