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Originally Posted by sandGroundZero
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All in all, this and the several other threads on the topic reflect the attitude of many motorists. That suggests that they are fearful of any questioning of what they perceive as motor vehicles' unqualified priority among road users.
That is not true. I've covered many a thousand miles on two wheels, both powered and unpowered and, as a motorist, I for one have no beef with the vast majority of cyclists, who use the roads sensibly and safely.
It's the crackpots who'd have us go back to the days of the man with a red flag and who hate those using four wheels with a level of vindictiveness that beggars belief.
For most people, as has been pointed out numerous times by many forum members, using two wheels is just not practical, whether for reasons of weather conditions, age or inability to transport people or goods at the level required.
We've also witnessed for ourselves that too many cyclists ignore the cycle lanes which have been provided or put their lives or that of others at risk through stupid and foolhardy flouting of the laws of the road.
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They can say what they want the temporary lanes and other nonesense was put in without public consultation and now the public have been consulted the plans are being scrapped, not progressed or cancelled, finished , dead in the water or whatever you want to call it and the mess that has been made of Houghton St and Queens Rd is to be rectified. So that’s the end of that, it’s done, the attitude of the many motorists is now one of delight that common sense has prevailed. Twist and turn kick and scream, like this post or don’t , it’s over .
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Originally Posted by Stuartli
Originally Posted by Zero
All in all, this and the several other threads on the topic reflect the attitude of many motorists. That suggests that they are fearful of any questioning of what they perceive as motor vehicles' unqualified priority among road users.
That is not true. I've covered many a thousand miles on two wheels, both powered and unpowered and, as a motorist, I for one have no beef with the vast majority of cyclists, who use the roads sensibly and safely.
It's the crackpots who'd have us go back to the days of the man with a red flag and who hate those using four wheels with a level of vindictiveness that beggars belief.
"…I for one have no beef with the vast majority of cyclists …It's the crackpots …" yet, you're not loathe to badger The PNP.
Originally Posted by Stuartli
For most people, as has been pointed out numerous times by many forum members, using two wheels is just not practical, whether for reasons of weather conditions, age or inability to transport people or goods at the level required.
"using two wheels is just not practical …", but your posts appear to imply cycling is required, regardless. Of course, no such thing has been asserted. Active Travel is encouraged; it is not compulsory.
Southport's cycle lanes were installed at the behest of central government (as a matter of urgency); now the scheme is in abeyance.
Originally Posted by Stuartli
We've also witnessed for ourselves that too many cyclists ignore the cycle lanes which have been provided or put their lives or that of others at risk through stupid and foolhardy flouting of the laws of the road.
That some bicycle riders flout the laws is not in question. Some motorists do as well. Disregard of courtesy and/or laws whether by bicyclists or motor vehicle operators is deplorable. Your unspoken assumption appears to be that bicyclists are more guilty of disregard than are motorists. (If that's not your view, it is not obvious from your posts.)
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That’s my view and it’s quite spoken, I have just been ( and you only have to go yourself and see ) out for an hour in the traffic and seen many cyclists on the pavement ( although I actually agree with this ) and a few go through red lights and one even cross a pedestrian crossing without dismounting and at the last second before the lights changed as the traffic started to move, and that was all in the last hour without it being kids. And I didn’t see one car driving on the pavement or going through lights or any of that .
If you don’t believe me go yourself around Southport and have a drive so yea I am saying that what you say is the view of the average motorist is my view and make no mistake, I didn’t need to even go along a dual carriageway to know cyclists will right now be ignoring cycle lanes and riding in the way of drivers in this bad light , dusk to dark and some without lights, and we all know it .. even you know it .
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Running petrol/diesel bangers after 2030? I doubt there will be an inch of road left in the UK by then, that isn't inside an ultra-low emission zone....Keep hold of your dinosaur if you like, but it'll cost you a £tenner or more in emission charges per day to use it, lol!
This psychotic dream of yours where private cars will be priced off the road is both shortsighted and counter productive.
In case you hadn't noticed, for Manchester the first of the clean air proposals, due in May and relating only to commercial vehicles, is already coming under severe criticism on cost grounds, put simply make it uneconomic for private or commercial business to travel in town and cities and they go elsewhere, or alternatively prices for goods and services increase, which in turn will not do trade in towns and cities any good at all.
It's all very well calling for a clean up of air pollution and yes it is needed, but it will cost, who pays? just simply attacking motorists is a waste of time, the bike can't replace proper transport, never has, never will.
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Originally Posted by sandGroundZero
That some bicycle riders flout the laws is not in question. Some motorists do as well. Disregard of courtesy and/or laws whether by bicyclists or motor vehicle operators is deplorable.
Your unspoken assumption appears to be that bicyclists are more guilty of disregard than are motorists. (If that's not your view, it is not obvious from your posts.)
In proportional terms, cyclists outdo motorists many times over in being guilty of disregard, even though they only make up about two or three per cent of road users.
By the way:
"Cycling as a proportion of trips by all transport modes increased from 2% in 2019 to 3% in 2020" (no doubt due to leisure/exercise rides as a result of lockdown).
Source: Gov.uk.
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Originally Posted by Stuartli
In proportional terms, cyclists outdo motorists many times over in being guilty of disregard, even though they only make up about two or three per cent of road users.
By the way:
"Cycling as a proportion of trips by all transport modes increased from 2% in 2019 to 3% in 2020" (no doubt due to leisure/exercise rides as a result of lockdown).
Source: Gov.uk.
Oooh now you've done it Jacka5s 22 won’t like that . Ha ha
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Efficient Transport
Originally Posted by Stuartli
By the way:
"Cycling as a proportion of trips by all transport modes increased from 2% in 2019 to 3% in 2020" (no doubt due to leisure/exercise rides as a result of lockdown).
Source: Gov.uk.
3% of trips made by bike? It defies logic that bikes make up such a tiny percentage, when they're recognised to be the most efficient form of transport known to man..Rainy days aside, what could possibly be keeping the UK figure so low - don't suppose it's the fear of being knocked off in traffic by any chance?
On Yer Bike!
www.20splentyforus.co.uk
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It doesn’t defy logic if he is quoting recent gov statistics, who says they are recognised as the most efficient transport ?, not the vast majority of people who want to efficiently go shopping move anything or get anywhere that’s for sure, rainy or cold days aside that’s half the year then and no it’s not the fear of getting knocked off as a third of cyclists ride on the pavement a third ride on the dual carriageways instead of cycle lanes as they are brave and a third just sit there making facts and figures up against government polls and adding up wrong, being bloody minded and not accepting when they are beaten .
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Originally Posted by silver fox
A) This psychotic dream of yours where private cars will be priced off the road is both shortsighted and counter productive.
B) In case you hadn't noticed, for Manchester the first of the clean air proposals, due in May and relating only to commercial vehicles, is already coming under severe criticism on cost grounds, put simply make it uneconomic for private or commercial business to travel in town and cities and they go elsewhere, or alternatively prices for goods and services increase, which in turn will not do trade in towns and cities any good at all.
It's all very well calling for a clean up of air pollution and yes it is needed, but it will cost, who pays? just simply attacking motorists is a waste of time, the bike can't replace proper transport, never has, never will.
A) Only the stinky fossil-fuelled variety...Private #zero-emission vehicles will be welcome a good while beyond 2030.
B) The Mcr clean air zone isn't just a 'town and city' thing, it's County-wide. And it isn't just aimed at commercials either, private cars will be included from next year. As for going elsewhere, how long before Lancs County and Merseyside etc, follow suite? Pretty soon there'll be no 'somewhere elses' to escape the inevitable, lol!
N.B. You could always get on yer bike - they incur no emission charges at all!
On Yer Bike!
www.20splentyforus.co.uk
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There will be flying cars before it comes to Southport and flying pigs before bicycles rule the roads. ( or even the bike tracks ).
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Originally Posted by The PNP
3% of trips made by bike? It defies logic that bikes make up such a tiny percentage, when they're recognised to be the most efficient form of transport known to man..Rainy days aside, what could possibly be keeping the UK figure so low - don't suppose it's the fear of being knocked off in traffic by any chance?
This is precisely why you get so much stick, just look through history at human transport, started with humans dragging heavy stuff around on rollers or skids, then came the wheel, ox carts, horse drawn private, public and commercial transport, steam powered transport, then the internal combustion engine and electricity, only electric and combustion engines have survived, at NO time has the bike been any more than peripheral.
Bikes have been in use for very local personal transport and leisure, end of they have never at any time been a practical transportation for either goods or people over anything but the shortest distance.
Yet with you the bike and use of is like some sort of Holy Grail, it isn't never has been, never will be, of course transportation will continue to change and evolve, hopefully for the better, the bike will continue more or less as now, but again you would reduce access in towns, cities, indeed everywhere just to accommodate a minority use
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Originally Posted by Stuartli
In proportional terms, cyclists outdo motorists many times over in being guilty of disregard, even though they only make up about two or three per cent of road users.
…
What is your evidence for that?
As a bicyclist and as a motorist, it is my impression that even fairly conscientious motor vehicle operators tend to be blasé about road user etiquette. (There's an expression in America) if I had a nickel for every time …
If I had 5p for every corner cut on a right turn, I could buy myself an electric bike and expect some change.
Anecdotes from your personal experience are not evidence. Many violations of bicycling etiquette I see are measures to stay safe from the risks of careless motorists. When you're wrapped in several cwt of steel, you're far less likely to notice when you have caused a cyclist or a pedestrian a spot of grief.
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Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY
A) It doesn’t defy logic if he is quoting recent gov statistics, who says they are recognised as the most efficient transport ?, not the vast majority of people who want to efficiently go shopping move anything or get anywhere that’s for sure,
B) rainy or cold days aside that’s half the year then and no it’s not the fear of getting knocked off as a third of cyclists ride on the pavement a third ride on the dual carriageways instead of cycle lanes as they are brave and a third just sit there making facts and figures up against government polls and adding up wrong, being bloody minded and not accepting when they are beaten .
A) Well, you find a more #efficient one - if you can, lol!
B) Not fear of being knocked off? Fear of traffic is the number one reason people in UK give for not cycling, when asked.
On Yer Bike!
www.20splentyforus.co.uk
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Originally Posted by The PNP
A) Only the stinky fossil-fuelled variety...Private #zero-emission vehicles will be welcome a good while beyond 2030.
B) The Mcr clean air zone isn't just a 'town and city' thing, it's County-wide. And it isn't just aimed at commercials either, private cars will be included from next year. As for going elsewhere, how long before Lancs County and Merseyside etc, follow suite? Pretty soon there'll be no 'somewhere elses' to escape the inevitable, lol!
N.B. You could always get on yer bike - they incur no emission charges at all!
I'll agree with you when you stop supplying stinky, polluting wood burning stoves, you do realise I hope, that wood burners are now recognised as a major polluter, far from your clean renewable mantra.
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