Following the Science?

[joan ofarc]

The big and as yet unknown is why some get it and die and others don't even get ill.

Even for those dyed in the wool Boris/Conservative haters (as though he/they knew much anyway), the question needs answering as you can't attribute blame without knowing why people have died.

It's certainly not as clear-cut as some amateur virologists seem to think.

Why have some depressingly poor nations with poor healthcare done relatively well it's not about lockdowns as they live cheek by jowl.

Swedens death rate is not as high as predicted.

Why has China got such relatively low rates*

How is it some very elderly people get over it.


*Assuming their accurate.

Agreed. But it ain't over yet by a long chalk on a world wide scale. When every country has this down to a seasonal disease then we will have better stats to work on. It would also help if all countries counted cases and deaths in the same way so a meaningful comparison can be made. I'm not sure where UK is on the table of deaths per capita now but would be willing to bet that we drop down the list a fair bit when the final counts come in. I'll eave out China and Russia as they are not playing fair.

[gazaprop]

What other reasoning can you come up with for the rise in all these incidents if it isn't lockdown?

There has undoubtedly been a rise in the type of crime you describe but - there most certainly has not been an increase in deaths as a result that would be comensurate with those that would have occurred, had lockdown not been implemented.

[Alikado]

There has undoubtedly been a rise in the type of crime you describe but - there most certainly has not been an increase in deaths as a result that would be comensurate with those that would have occurred, had lockdown not been implemented.

Agreed, but what I'm arguing is that parts of lockdown have been unnecessary and have minimal or no effect on the spread of the virus, they have possibly caused more problems than they have solved both in injuries / fatalities and the long term mental effects which may take many years to solve, it seems to me that some things were banned because if it was permitted somebody else would moan.

[silver fox]

Agreed, but what I'm arguing is that parts of lockdown have been unnecessary and have minimal or no effect on the spread of the virus, they have possibly caused more problems than they have solved both in injuries / fatalities and the long term mental effects which may take many years to solve, it seems to me that some things were banned because if it was permitted somebody else would moan.

You could have a point, but I feel that for many the only interest is which parts of restrictions affect them, one person’s concept of restriction is of no consequence to someone else.

[Alikado]

You could have a point, but I feel that for many the only interest is which parts of restrictions affect them, one person’s concept of restriction is of no consequence to someone else.

I've mentioned bowls, golf & croquet, I have absolutely no interest in any of them personally but know of many that do, I heard that the excuse given for banning it was that you could catch the virus lifting the flag out, all three sports are natural socially distanced. With those million plus people who participate in these sports out on the greens and courses not catching the virus they would be taken away from more risky environments which would have a knock on effect of further reducing infections by reducing the crowding in the risky places and this reducing infections even further. More benefits would be accrued through the participants health and wellbeing and the effects on the economy.

[local]

The answer is a bit obvious, everyone will make a special case for their pastime but the point of a lockdown is to restrict movement and keep interaction between people to a minimum.

Making special cases for metal detectoring or naked sunbathing leads to a slippery slope of people contesting their pet activity.


Then there's the blindingly obvious problem that snail hunting or draintop photography will become more popular as it gives an excuse to go out.

Imagine the legislation that would have to pass through Parliament to deal with every activity.

Its a pandemic and people are already complaining that x or y should have been done quicker.

The work needed just to bring in the controls we have is huge.

[jamyramy]

You could have a point, but I feel that for many the only interest is which parts of restrictions affect them, one person’s concept of restriction is of no consequence to someone else.

yep if your an agrophobic or social anxiety phobias sufferer etc then the pressures off for sure!

[said]

Impossible during the warmth of a British Summer? Meantime, in the real world, Brazil and India are currently the worst Covid hot spots.

We are at present experiencing a Global recession for which austerity measures are in place. The stock market has recovered by a few points and if it continues to do so, restrictions will be eased further - it the stock markets drop, then another lockdown will take place.

The topic heading is following the science? Can you name any other virus which has behaved in the manner we are told to believe with this one? Masks are useless - scientifically. Plastic face masks are laughable - scientifically Distancing is ridiculous - scientifically. Lockdowns cause more problems than they solve - scientifically. Viruses do not travel in straight lines, viruses do not attack people standing up more than those sitting down, viruses do not target people in clothing shops, pubs, parties or gyms more than they do in supermarkets, etc.,etc., They have developed a vaccine but have not yet isolated the virus, oh, come on?

You appear to argue if you can google an answer. All I am asking is that you forget about finding an answer in print - just ask yourself, does the behaviour of this non living, non thinking virus seem reasonable to you? It is a corona virus a classification under which the common cold, influenza etc., fall under. The only difference between this virus (according to the Lancet and the BMJ) is that it has a slightly longer incubation period of four days instead of the two for influenza. Have you ever contracted influenza? Did everyone you had come into contact with, contract it too?

[silver fox]

We are at present experiencing a Global recession for which austerity measures are in place. The stock market has recovered by a few points and if it continues to do so, restrictions will be eased further - it the stock markets drop, then another lockdown will take place.

The topic heading is following the science? Can you name any other virus which has behaved in the manner we are told to believe with this one? Masks are useless - scientifically. Plastic face masks are laughable - scientifically Distancing is ridiculous - scientifically. Lockdowns cause more problems than they solve - scientifically. Viruses do not travel in straight lines, viruses do not attack people standing up more than those sitting down, viruses do not target people in clothing shops, pubs, parties or gyms more than they do in supermarkets, etc.,etc., They have developed a vaccine but have not yet isolated the virus, oh, come on?

You appear to argue if you can google an answer. All I am asking is that you forget about finding an answer in print - just ask yourself, does the behaviour of this non living, non thinking virus seem reasonable to you? It is a corona virus a classification under which the common cold, influenza etc., fall under. The only difference between this virus (according to the Lancet and the BMJ) is that it has a slightly longer incubation period of four days instead of the two for influenza. Have you ever contracted influenza? Did everyone you had come into contact with, contract it too?

Give us all a break will you, are you going to deny that this virus is pretty well worldwide, the death rate has soared, for many there are barely understood long term after effects, we all know that the infection transmission is more random than first thought, your continual attempts to downgrade COVID as no more than a bit of flu isn’t true and you know it.

In any event, even if you were correct and this was a form of flu, any infectious disease so widespread and with such effects, would produce a very similar response, in other words make every effort to reduce transmission, immediate search for cures or prevention, just what eventually even those in denial have gone down that route.

While you are so busy using your expert knowledge telling all who will listen, that this, that or the other doesn’t work, many others have been searching for the best ways to combat this pandemic.

When you have something provable to say, maybe some may listen.

[joan ofarc]

We are at present experiencing a Global recession for which austerity measures are in place. The stock market has recovered by a few points and if it continues to do so, restrictions will be eased further - it the stock markets drop, then another lockdown will take place.

The topic heading is following the science? Can you name any other virus which has behaved in the manner we are told to believe with this one? Masks are useless - scientifically. Plastic face masks are laughable - scientifically Distancing is ridiculous - scientifically. Lockdowns cause more problems than they solve - scientifically. Viruses do not travel in straight lines, viruses do not attack people standing up more than those sitting down, viruses do not target people in clothing shops, pubs, parties or gyms more than they do in supermarkets, etc.,etc., They have developed a vaccine but have not yet isolated the virus, oh, come on?

You appear to argue if you can google an answer. All I am asking is that you forget about finding an answer in print - just ask yourself, does the behaviour of this non living, non thinking virus seem reasonable to you? It is a corona virus a classification under which the common cold, influenza etc., fall under. The only difference between this virus (according to the Lancet and the BMJ) is that it has a slightly longer incubation period of four days instead of the two for influenza. Have you ever contracted influenza? Did everyone you had come into contact with, contract it too?

Come on.... just in that second paragraph alone practically every sentence is factually wrong or misunderstood. There's no common ground between you and almost everyone else here so there is no point flogging your uninformed prattle.

[local]

Come on.... just in that second paragraph alone practically every sentence is factually wrong or misunderstood. There's no common ground between you and almost everyone else here so there is no point flogging your uninformed prattle.

It's hard to find anyone so poorly educated or informed.

Despite months of posting often out of date science, it persists in specious claims that are at odds not only with the science but common sense.

[seivad]

We are at present experiencing a Global recession for which austerity measures are in place. The stock market has recovered by a few points and if it continues to do so, restrictions will be eased further - it the stock markets drop, then another lockdown will take place.

The topic heading is following the science? Can you name any other virus which has behaved in the manner we are told to believe with this one? Masks are useless - scientifically. Plastic face masks are laughable - scientifically Distancing is ridiculous - scientifically. Lockdowns cause more problems than they solve - scientifically. Viruses do not travel in straight lines, viruses do not attack people standing up more than those sitting down, viruses do not target people in clothing shops, pubs, parties or gyms more than they do in supermarkets, etc.,etc., They have developed a vaccine but have not yet isolated the virus, oh, come on?

You appear to argue if you can google an answer. All I am asking is that you forget about finding an answer in print - just ask yourself, does the behaviour of this non living, non thinking virus seem reasonable to you? It is a corona virus a classification under which the common cold, influenza etc., fall under. The only difference between this virus (according to the Lancet and the BMJ) is that it has a slightly longer incubation period of four days instead of the two for influenza. Have you ever contracted influenza? Did everyone you had come into contact with, contract it too?

Economic and scientific illiteracy. There are a lot of factors that influence markets, economic activity is one of them. During a lockdown economic activity decreases, markets drop. When restrictions are eased or lifted, economic activity increases and markets start to recover.

In your scenario, you state that if the market drops, another lockdown will take place. Great way to sustain/increase market losses.

Same goes for austerity during a period of recession. You need fiscal stimulus, not austerity. I believe that the UK government's Covid relief schemes accomplished that, along with other fiscal and monetary policy. When the cause of the recession is over, austerity measures are often introduced. Whether or not austerity works is questionable. Do you believe that the UK's decade of austerity after the financial crisis worked?

Of course lockdowns work. Every time cases surge and lockdowns are introduced, Covid cases decrease. As for the efficacy of masks and social distancing, there's scientific consensus that these measures do reduce transmission. Judging from the crowds I've just seen in footage of UK pubs and people queuing up outside stores, you might find real world confirmation of their efficacy pretty soon.

How many times do you have to be told that the virus has been isolated. It was first isolated here in March 2020, and has been isolated countless times by scientists in every country.

Google an answer, that's ripe from someone whose posts are usually poorly knit together C&Ps from multiple sites, along with the original font!

You would have to be living under a rock to be unaware of the crisis in Brazil and India. The footage I've seen from Brazil is harrowing.

Again, influenza is not a coronavirus. The incubation period is the only difference, really? Nothing about the difference in transmission rates? Link to the BMJ and Lancet articles which state that is the only difference?

[Alikado]

Perhaps the Government should give us all a Black Lives Matter membership, the SAGE Scientists advising government concluded BLM "facilitated open dialogue which increased knowledge" about the pandemic.The Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement may have helped reduce the spread of Covid. Experts on the ethnicity subgroup of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) said the anti-racist movement “fostered greater empowerment within the Black African and Black Caribbean community, “This new empowerment may have created a sense of optimism and facilitated open dialogue which increased knowledge and contributed to greater use of cultural, religious and collaborative approaches to reducing risk and transmission of Covid-19 in Black communities in the UK,”

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b6616dcd772211

[local]

We are at present experiencing a Global recession for which austerity measures are in place. The stock market has recovered by a few points and if it continues to do so, restrictions will be eased further - it the stock markets drop, then another lockdown will take place.

The topic heading is following the science? Can you name any other virus which has behaved in the manner we are told to believe with this one? Masks are useless - scientifically. Plastic face masks are laughable - scientifically Distancing is ridiculous - scientifically. Lockdowns cause more problems than they solve - scientifically. Viruses do not travel in straight lines, viruses do not attack people standing up more than those sitting down, viruses do not target people in clothing shops, pubs, parties or gyms more than they do in supermarkets, etc.,etc., They have developed a vaccine but have not yet isolated the virus, oh, come on?

You appear to argue if you can google an answer. All I am asking is that you forget about finding an answer in print - just ask yourself, does the behaviour of this non living, non thinking virus seem reasonable to you? It is a corona virus a classification under which the common cold, influenza etc., fall under. The only difference between this virus (according to the Lancet and the BMJ) is that it has a slightly longer incubation period of four days instead of the two for influenza. Have you ever contracted influenza? Did everyone you had come into contact with, contract it too?

Not that you haven't had it before;


Face masks: what the data say
The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8.


The rather boring but obvious point that you don't need to party or the pub but eating is quite important is I suppose flying well over your head.

[Hamble]

Perhaps the Government should give us all a Black Lives Matter membership, the SAGE Scientists advising government concluded BLM "facilitated open dialogue which increased knowledge" about the pandemic.The Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement may have helped reduce the spread of Covid. Experts on the ethnicity subgroup of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) said the anti-racist movement “fostered greater empowerment within the Black African and Black Caribbean community, “This new empowerment may have created a sense of optimism and facilitated open dialogue which increased knowledge and contributed to greater use of cultural, religious and collaborative approaches to reducing risk and transmission of Covid-19 in Black communities in the UK,”

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b6616dcd772211

What a strange article.

I would not have thought Indian and Pakistani people would be much influenced by BLM.