Angela Raynor

[Alikado]

Why quote the comments?

I would not quote far left Socialists comments on websites or links.

In case you missed the points.

1.https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/a...r-b957475.html

2.AR earned more from outside work than some Tories.

Not to mention.
https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk...ial-disclosure

Her earnings are negligible, most of what is on the list is donations mostly in kind towards the Deputy Leadership bid and General Election campaign, but there again I wish I could earn 50 or 60 to do a half hour survey.

[Hamble]

Her earnings are negligible, most of what is on the list is donations mostly in kind towards the Deputy Leadership bid and General Election campaign, but there again I wish I could earn 50 or 60 to do a half hour survey.

I do not think her earnings are 'negligible' through lack of effort or demand.

You think AR would turn down a payment us too much for her Socialist values?

I see no problem in M.P's having 2nd jobs.
Precarious employment at the best of times.

[Toodles McGinty]

Why quote the comments?

I would not quote far left Socialists comments on websites or links.

Because, as always, the content of her speech is irrelevant to them. Her natural accent, the way she speaks, is under attack.

It is snobbery, pure and simple. There's no analysis of her points. Just attack after attack on the fact that she's from a very poor background and doesn't speak the way she seemingly should. Plus she's got a fairly obvious speech impediment.

It's ignorant. It's petty. It is unadulterated snobbery.

I'm fairly confident she's worked a damned site harder for both herself and her constituents to go from pregnant teen to Deputy Leader of the Opposition, than any of the sniping keyboard warriors hiding on YouTube, or those petty snobs on here who spew out the same. And unless those comments are from previous holders of the title 'The Right Honourable', she's achieved much more.

In case you missed the points.

1.https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/a...r-b957475.html

2.AR earned more from outside work than some Tories.

Not to mention.
https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk...ial-disclosure

OK. 1: That incident was a month ago. She's had the decency to apologise for her language.

I'll ask you again, do you think anyone who is repeatedly racist, misogynistic and homophobic, and a proven out and out liar, is deserving of the word 'scum'? Then refuses, repeatedly, to apologise?

I do. Very much so. Nothing but 'scum'.

Going back to Marr, as local mentioned, he spent two minutes on going over and over this point with her. She's apologised for her language. She states, quite reasonably, she'd sit down with Johnson and when he apologises for the racism..etc, she'd be happy to apologise to him.

And 2: as for earning from outside work, weren't the vast majority of those listed donations for her campaign for deputy leadership?

Were any of those rewards for advising a foreign government against the better interests of our country? Say a conflict of interests between being a British MP in the governing party speaking against law changes to require overseas territories to create a register of company owners and also giving legal advice to companies based in tax havens?

Nope.

All a bit different to, say, becoming a director of a company, then lobbying for them, don't you think?

Or earning millions but forgetting to mention it?

I'm sure there are some MPs who don't earn anything other than their basic MP salary and vast expenses that go with it. I'm sure there are some MPs that work, say, in the medical profession, and continuing to put a few hours in helps the public. Massively different to paid lobbying and consultancy, don't you think?

All a lot different from the £3.5 billion that Johnson has allegedly gifted his mates and donors.

As I recall, Labour and Tory MPs went to prison for fiddling the public purse a while back. Prosecuted by Keir Starmer.

Lets hope this round of corruption see many more MPs, Ministers or the PM going down the same route, if proven guilty.

[local]

Her earnings are negligible, most of what is on the list is donations mostly in kind towards the Deputy Leadership bid and General Election campaign, but there again I wish I could earn 50 or 60 to do a half hour survey.

The amounts are irrelevant if we wish to outlaw outside earnings then the fact that someone has a higher earning capacity is irrelevant.

[Toodles McGinty]

You think AR would turn down a payment us too much for her Socialist values?

Again, I have to question what your idea of what 'Socialism' actually is?

Do you think that Socialism means just giving your earnings away? Not earning over X amount?

I think, as a ridiculously large amount of people seem to do, you see some kind of equivalence between Socialism and Communism.

Which is about as bizarre as painting anyone with Conservative values as a Fascist or a Nazi.

Are you joining the BNP along with your Tory membership? Going goose-stepping around the North West?

No, because it is patently ridiculous. Rayner is as far left as you are far right.

[Hamble]

Because, as always, the content of her speech is irrelevant to them. Her natural accent, the way she speaks, is under attack.

It is snobbery, pure and simple. There's no analysis of her points. Just attack after attack on the fact that she's from a very poor background and doesn't speak the way she seemingly should. Plus she's got a fairly obvious speech impediment.

It's ignorant. It's petty. It is unadulterated snobbery.

I'm fairly confident she's worked a damned site harder for both herself and her constituents to go from pregnant teen to Deputy Leader of the Opposition, than any of the sniping keyboard warriors hiding on YouTube, or those petty snobs on here who spew out the same. And unless those comments are from previous holders of the title 'The Right Honourable', she's achieved much more.



OK. 1: That incident was a month ago. She's had the decency to apologise for her language.

I'll ask you again, do you think anyone who is repeatedly racist, misogynistic and homophobic, and a proven out and out liar, is deserving of the word 'scum'? Then refuses, repeatedly, to apologise?

I do. Very much so. Nothing but 'scum'.

Going back to Marr, as local mentioned, he spent two minutes on going over and over this point with her. She's apologised for her language. She states, quite reasonably, she'd sit down with Johnson and when he apologises for the racism..etc, she'd be happy to apologise to him.

And 2: as for earning from outside work, weren't the vast majority of those listed donations for her campaign for deputy leadership?

Were any of those rewards for advising a foreign government against the better interests of our country? Say a conflict of interests between being a British MP in the governing party speaking against law changes to require overseas territories to create a register of company owners and also giving legal advice to companies based in tax havens?

Nope.

All a bit different to, say, becoming a director of a company, then lobbying for them, don't you think?

Or earning millions but forgetting to mention it?

I'm sure there are some MPs who don't earn anything other than their basic MP salary and vast expenses that go with it. I'm sure there are some MPs that work, say, in the medical profession, and continuing to put a few hours in helps the public. Massively different to paid lobbying and consultancy, don't you think?

All a lot different from the £3.5 billion that Johnson has allegedly gifted his mates and donors.

As I recall, Labour and Tory MPs went to prison for fiddling the public purse a while back. Prosecuted by Keir Starmer.

Lets hope this round of corruption see many more MPs, Ministers or the PM going down the same route, if proven guilty.

Did anyone in Parliament ridicule or belittle AR?

Penny Mordant certainly did not spoke with the same respect as she gave other colleagues.

The Guido website reported actual footage of the conversation.

Public comments were all just that.
If AR can speak as she feels why cannot the public she aspires to represent in Government?


Yes.Second jobs are ok paid consultancy a conflict of interests.

[Toodles McGinty]

The amounts are irrelevant if we wish to outlaw outside earnings then the fact that someone has a higher earning capacity is irrelevant.

I don't see that all outside earnings need to be outlawed. I do agree that the amounts earned are irrelevant.

It is the source of the income, and how much influence is bought that is the problem. And if earning that money is detrimental to the job of serving constituents.

Caroline Lucas reckons she puts in 70-80 hours a week as an MP. I'm not saying all should, but lets face it, if you are putting more hours in to your second job, it isn't your second job any more.

As I said earlier, a doctor, of which there are a few in the Commons, may need to keep up to date in the field. It also serves the country, but in a different way. As long as it doesn't interfere with the role of MP. That is massively different to consultancy and the lobbying on behalf of a company. Or advising a foreign government against our better interests.

Those are the sorts of activity that need banning. That along with donors being handed massively lucrative contracts.

[Desert Region]

I think, as a ridiculously large amount of people seem to do, you see some kind of equivalence between Socialism and Communism.

Well, Communism has often been conceived or considered as an extreme or radical or revolutionary form of Socialism, so a degree of a popular lack of distinction between the two is understandable.

And it was indeed a recent Socialist Labour Shadow Chancellor who memorably reinforced a popular conception of equivalence between Socialism and Communism by standing up at the despatch box, pulling out a copy of Chairman Mao's favourite book from his pocket and then reading extracts from it.

[Hamble]

Again, I have to question what your idea of what 'Socialism' actually is?

Do you think that Socialism means just giving your earnings away? Not earning over X amount?

I think, as a ridiculously large amount of people seem to do, you see some kind of equivalence between Socialism and Communism.

Which is about as bizarre as painting anyone with Conservative values as a Fascist or a Nazi.

Are you joining the BNP along with your Tory membership? Going goose-stepping around the North West?

No, because it is patently ridiculous. Rayner is as far left as you are far right.

I think Socialism is happy to hate Capitalism until it benefits from it.

AR has excepted donations for her private ltd company to further her personal career aspirations and on behalf of the Labour Party.

If asked to join the 'after dinner circuit' like her MP colleagues no doubt
she would accept payment.

[Toodles McGinty]

I think Socialism is happy to hate Capitalism until it benefits from it.

And you've lived your life as a capitalist, never once, under any circumstances, accepting that which socialism offers, I take it?

AR has excepted donations for her private ltd company to further her personal career aspirations and on behalf of the Labour Party.

If asked to join the 'after dinner circuit' like her MP colleagues no doubt
she would accept payment.

Why on earth shouldn't she? I mean just one sensible reason why Rayner shouldn't do what a: other MPs do, and b: is perfectly legal?

Any reason?

[Toodles McGinty]

Well, Communism has often been conceived or considered as an extreme or radical or revolutionary form of Socialism, so a degree of a popular lack of distinction between the two is understandable.

And it was indeed a recent Socialist Labour Shadow Chancellor who memorably reinforced a popular conception of equivalence between Socialism and Communism by standing up at the despatch box, pulling out a copy of Chairman Mao's favourite book from his pocket and then reading extracts from it.

I take it you know what is going on here, or do you think that McDonnell simply whipped out the book and started reading from it because he's a committed Communist?

Context matters. The speech is relevant.

If you do a quick Google, you'll know exactly what was going on, and you'll find that you are reinforcing the misconception of equivalence between Socialism and Communism by finding a clip and posting it entirely out of context, as though McDonnell carries around a copy of Mao's book and regularly quoted from it.

That simply isn't the case, is it?

[Hamble]

And you've lived your life as a capitalist, never once, under any circumstances, accepting that which socialism offers, I take it?



Why on earth shouldn't she? I mean just one sensible reason why Rayner shouldn't do what a: other MPs do, and b: is perfectly legal?

Any reason?

You cannot compare me as a citizen with a politician promoting Socialism.
I have to accept and abide by democracy.

Raynor should have all the legal other benefits MP's do.
The UK needs all those high tax bracket contributor's.
If she accepts a gig abroad she might want to review the bit about Labours aims on strongly opposing free enterprise.

[Hamble]

I take it you know what is going on here, or do you think that McDonnell simply whipped out the book and started reading from it because he's a committed Communist?

Context matters. The speech is relevant.

If you do a quick Google, you'll know exactly what was going on, and you'll find that you are reinforcing the misconception of equivalence between Socialism and Communism by finding a clip and posting it entirely out of context, as though McDonnell carries around a copy of Mao's book and regularly quoted from it.

That simply isn't the case, is it?

I say his bench buddies look a tad pished off.

[Desert Region]

I take it you know what is going on here, or do you think that McDonnell simply whipped out the book and started reading from it because he's a committed Communist?

Context matters. The speech is relevant.

If you do a quick Google, you'll know exactly what was going on, and you'll find that you are reinforcing the misconception of equivalence between Socialism and Communism by finding a clip and posting it entirely out of context, as though McDonnell carries around a copy of Mao's book and regularly quoted from it.

That simply isn't the case, is it?

I don't need to do a "quick Google" as I remember the (as I said) "memorable" incident from the time. And anyway, in the clip itself McDonnell explains what he is trying to do! Indeed, a quick watch of the clip demonstrates that...

I don't know if he regularly carries around a copy of Mao's Little Red Book in his pocket or not. Maybe he does; maybe he doesn't. I didn't mention anything about the regularity, or not, of him doing so, or anything regards the regularity, or not, of his quoting from it! I suggest you reread my post.

You said:

I think, as a ridiculously large amount of people seem to do, you see some kind of equivalence between Socialism and Communism.

I replied to that observation, that point.

Also, given that I actually agreed that Socialism and Communism, while related, are not the same thing, your idea that I am "reinforcing the misconception of equivalence between Socialism and Communism" makes even less sense.

As I said, and substantiated with a video clip, the person who recently and memorably did just that, i.e. "reinforce the misconception of equivalence between Socialism and Communism", was Socialist Labour Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell.

[Toodles McGinty]

You cannot compare me as a citizen with a politician promoting Socialism.
I have to accept and abide by democracy.

Raynor should have all the legal other benefits MP's do.
The UK needs all those high tax bracket contributor's.
If she accepts a gig abroad she might want to review the bit about Labours aims on strongly opposing free enterprise.

Can you show me the bit in the Labour manifesto, any Labour manifesto, where it strongly opposes free enterprise?

I'm not trying to compare you with a politician. I'm assuming you, as a zealous supporter of capitalism, loathe socialism.

So obviously I'm wondering if you've ever been so hypocritical as accept any of the benefits?

And you still haven't said whether you believe anyone who repeatedly makes racist, misogynistic and homophobic comments is worthy of the term 'scum'?