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Originally Posted by silver fox
Possibly because he puts the interests of the country before his own personal thoughts.
The ideal combination, he wouldn't roll over and just accept whatever the EU wants, he would stand within the EU for Britain's interests, yet retain the advantages.
“...puts the interests of the Country before his own personal thoughts”.
That is possibly the funniest thing you’ve ever posted, SF.
Last edited by justbecause; 09/04/2019 at 10:17 AM.
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Ex telegraph today
In Macron’s view, there is a European power vacuum. Angela Merkel will be stepping out of office soon. Her replacement, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, is untested on the world stage. Spain has been weakened by secession noises from Catalonia, and Italy, as he sees it, is beyond the pale now that it has voted in the populists. As for Britain, not only is it on the way out, but it’s going about it in an inept way. This, he feels, is his moment.
President Macron understands that sticking it to the 'Rosbifs' always plays well in France
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Originally Posted by silver fox
Possibly because he puts the interests of the country before his own personal thoughts.
The ideal combination, he wouldn't roll over and just accept whatever the EU wants, he would stand within the EU for Britain's interests, yet retain the advantages.
So funny!
I cannot think of a worse cad than one who despises wealth makers yet plots to get his hands on the profits to play the generous benefactor and himself into power.
Corbyns own personal thoughts are the subject of his downfall.
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It will be very interesting to what 'conditions' the EU attach to what is probably their offer of a long extension to Article 50 ?
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[QUOTE=Toodles McGinty;6675872]Do you think if you write something, it becomes true magically?
The referendum was called because Cameron feared Tory voters were switching to UKIP, particularly after a couple of MPs and an MEP crossed the floor. To appease the Tory electorate and the far right Eurosceptics, he put the referendum in the manifesto.
The EU actually DID discuss variation in their legislation, and they granted it to us. On further political integration and on immigrant's benefits. And quite a lot more. But Theresa May stuck her nose in and vetoed the whole thing. And she veoted talks between Cameron and the Tory rebels that might have calmed the situation. Karma is a *****.
You have a very short memory. In February 2016, Cameron returned once again to discuss issues affecting the UK with the EU. He had been unsuccessful on three separate previous occasions in these discussions and was losing patience with the EU. In February of that year, it was widely published that Cameron had said that he would ensure that the talks were successful -but returned publicly embarrassed to say that the talks had failed yet again. The issues under discussion involved:
Key Points:
1. How many member states can trigger an emergency brake on migrant welfare.
2. For how long a member state can impose restrictions on immigrant welfare.
3. Whether Child Benefit curbs can be applied retrospectively
4. Changing treaties to alter the principle of an ever closer union
5. How the EU's binding treaties will be altered to make the changes.
Ukip had been pressing for the UK to leave the EU, and after his public embarrassment Cameron allowed a referendum to be held.
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Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty
Well they are pretty major issues. We owe, what, £39b? If we don't pay up, we'll be seen as defaulters throughout the world, and it'll hardly encourage anyone to do business with us. The Irish border questions is also paramount, particularly for us. Don't fancy bombs being planted over here again. Or having our soldiers blown to bits because they've ended up back at the border.
Citizen's rights should be a major concern for everyone.
Not sure it is hard ball. The whole point of the EU is to stick together, isn't it? I've no doubt if France was in our position, we'd be calling them a-hole to breakfast time.
Whether we owe the EU or not is pure speculation, it has not been agreed upon. Most certainly it would have to be passed through parliament anyway for them to decide.
" A House of Lords report also argued that legally the UK isn't required to pay a penny, although this is disputed by some legal experts, and the report itself acknowledges that there are 'competing interpretations," The Independent.
The Irish border issue is one that has been blown right out of proportion. A 'hard border' would be impossible to achieve - a border does exist between the UK and Ireland - in currency. VAT,excise duties and security form this border but it is a tax point not an inspection point. "The solution would be that of a maximum facilitation with an expanded AEO scheme to allow for daily trade to continue seamlessly" Daily Telegraph.
The Irish Border issue has been "seized upon by the Remain supporters who for some reason are desperate to remain in the Customs Union." The Telegraph.
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Originally Posted by said
You have a very short memory. In February 2016, Cameron returned once again to discuss issues affecting the UK with the EU. He had been unsuccessful on three separate previous occasions in these discussions and was losing patience with the EU.
I'd watch this series, if I were you. From the horse's mouth:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0c1rjkc
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Originally Posted by said
Whether we owe the EU or not is pure speculation, it has not been agreed upon. Most certainly it would have to be passed through parliament anyway for them to decide.
" A House of Lords report also argued that legally the UK isn't required to pay a penny, although this is disputed by some legal experts, and the report itself acknowledges that there are 'competing interpretations," The Independent.
If we default, we'll be personae non gratae as far as international finance is concerned. Great start to 'independence'.
The Irish border issue is one that has been blown right out of proportion...
...The Irish Border issue has been "seized upon by the Remain supporters who for some reason are desperate to remain in the Customs Union." The Telegraph.
Of course it has. By remainers. And the EU. And the Irish people, American senators, UNESCO chairmen, MPs, etc, etc. In fact anybody who knows the slightest thing about the Good Friday Agreement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit...e_Irish_border
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Originally Posted by salus.populi
The best interests of the country and the will of a small misguided and lied to majority of the country are not necessarily compatible.
Yes I know the remain side lied and are still doing so but I think enough people saw and are seeing through it (even Jeremy)
The closet EU sceptic Jeremy Corbyn will say anything to his sycophantic followers and in true cult fashion they lap it up.
He is after all negotiating a form of Brexit with May perhaps Boris and Nigel have been round to his house and hypnotised him............................
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As a slight aside, both the suggested backstop, hard border and GF Agreement will become irrelevant in our lifetime!
In NI, support for Sinn Fein is growing, only 6% difference at the 2017 General Election between them and the DUP, so won't be long before a 'request' to hold a reunification referendum, which am guessing will be a 'yes' so the whole island of Ireland becomes an EU member not just the South, also remembering NI overall vote was to remain in the EU, regardless of politics.
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Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty
There is nothing that comes from the horse's mouth about the EU when it is televised by the BBC. The BBC is subsidised by the EU. This footage has been doctored with several ommissions. Cameron did not want another term in office - he took it reluctantly under pressure from parliament, this has been publicly documented.
The ten years - I would say more than ten years - of turmoil in the EU has been caused by the ill advised actions and greed for power of the EU. Almost every single member country has suffered due to the EU - mostly because of overly strict legislation, immigration and also due to many really silly but serious mistakes made by Merkel. Even the countries that were poor before they joined the EU, have now turned against it.
Macron lives in a dream world - he cannot control his own country, let alone 27 other countries.
"Today there is no one capable of acting as queen or emperor of that project, as Merkel has done for the past decade. That is due, in no small part, to the decisions she took.The Merkel project created a EU with unachievable ambitions, seeking to impose uniformity upon the most diverse set of countries on Earth." The Sun
Last edited by said; 09/04/2019 at 02:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hamble
One cannot be a Eurosceptic and EU Customs Union Devotee.
Originally Posted by silver fox
Possibly because he puts the interests of the country before his own personal thoughts...
But that's just not the case.
By "the interests of the country" I assume you mean your personal conception of those national interests, because I don't see how you could be reffering to Jeremy Corbyn's personal conception.
By his "own personal thoughts" I assume this is a much watered-down reference to his personal beliefs, values and principles, on which his true view of, and attitude to, the EU will be rooted.
The "hardcore" members of the European Research Group are routinely referred to as right-wing extremists and rabid Brexiteers - and Jeremy Corbyn's actual views on the EU are perhaps even more "extreme," "rebellious" and "rabid" than theirs.
There's always a plethora of comments over-brimming with admiration for Jeremy's much-vaunted principles and honesty, yet on the biggest of issues he demonstrates that those perceptions of his integrity are misguided at best.
Meanwhile, Theresa May, as committed a Remainer as can be, has eventually come down on the side of doing what she believes is best for the future of the country. Arguably, she is the most committed Remainer of all, as she is a Prime Minister who is absolutely prepared to sacrifice the future of her Conservative Party: over her belief in what is best for the country, in its national interests, in regards its future relationship with the EU.
Whereas, Jermey Corbyn, is burying and disowning those oh so strong principles, judgements and beliefs of his, as to what is best for the country: in favour of what is best for his party and his position in it. Party before country; party before principles; ambition over integrity.
Still (and ultimately), on this biggest of issue, which of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn has actually been the most deceitful is up for discussion and open to argument...
Certainly, both, on this issue, are an ill-fit for their respective party.
Originally Posted by silver fox
Possibly because he puts the interests of the country before his own personal thoughts...
Nothing so noble as that.
He's already failed that weakly-expressed test.
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Originally Posted by said
There is nothing that comes from the horse's mouth about the EU when it is televised by the BBC. The BBC is subsidised by the EU. This footage has been doctored with several ommissions. Cameron did not want another term in office - he took it reluctantly under pressure from parliament, this has been publicly documented.
The ten years - I would say more than ten years - of turmoil in the EU has been caused by the ill advised actions and greed for power of the EU. Almost every single member country has suffered due to the EU - mostly because of overly strict legislation, immigration and also due to many really silly but serious mistakes made by Merkel. Even the countries that were poor before they joined the EU, have now turned against it.
Macron lives in a dream world - he cannot control his own country, let alone 27 other countries.
"Today there is no one capable of acting as queen or emperor of that project, as Merkel has done for the past decade. That is due, in no small part, to the decisions she took.The Merkel project created a EU with unachievable ambitions, seeking to impose uniformity upon the most diverse set of countries on Earth." The Sun
More bull$h!t - and a quote from 'The Sun'.
Hysterical.
How has it been 'doctored'? Can you point to a particular clip that has been changed in some way? The interviews with Osborne? Clegg?
It isn't a BBC production. The production company is Brooke Lapping, BAFTA, Peabody, RTS award winners. Not a hint of duplicity, as far as I am aware:
Brook Lapping has a track record for getting candid interviews from world leaders and their top advisors in multi-award-winning series like Inside Obama’s White House, Iran & the West, The Iraq War, The Death of Yugoslavia and The Second Russian Revolution.
The BBC bought it. Although what difference that makes, I don't know. Is there a media outlet that hasn't been subsidised by the EU?
Frog-face Farage is subsidised by the EU, so shouldn't you be questioning him?
Almost every single member country has suffered due to the EU - mostly because of overly strict legislation, immigration and also due to many really silly but serious mistakes made by Merkel.
Wonder if any of them has lost as much as the £64 billion we've shelled out (so far) for this Brexit farce?
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Originally Posted by Desert Region
But that's just not the case.
By "the interests of the country" I assume you mean your personal conception of those national interests, because I don't see how you could be reffering to Jeremy Corbyn's personal conception.
By his "own personal thoughts" I assume this is a much watered-down reference to his personal beliefs, values and principles, on which his true view of, and attitude to, the EU will be rooted.
The "hardcore" members of the European Research Group are routinely referred to as right-wing extremists and rabid Brexiteers - and Jeremy Corbyn's actual views on the EU are perhaps even more "extreme," "rebellious" and "rabid" than theirs.
There's always a plethora of comments over-brimming with admiration for Jeremy's much-vaunted principles and honesty, yet on the biggest of issues he demonstrates that those perceptions of his integrity are misguided at best.
Meanwhile, Theresa May, as committed a Remainer as can be, has eventually come down on the side of doing what she believes is best for the future of the country. Arguably, she is the most committed Remainer of all, as she is a Prime Minister who is absolutely prepared to sacrifice the future of her Conservative Party: over her belief in what is best for the country, in its national interests, in regards its future relationship with the EU.
Whereas, Jermey Corbyn, is burying and disowning those oh so strong principles, judgements and beliefs of his, as to what is best for the country: in favour of what is best for his party and his position in it. Party before country; party before principles; ambition over integrity.
Still (and ultimately), on this biggest of issue, which of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn has actually been the most deceitful is up for discussion and open to argument...
Certainly, both, on this issue, are an ill-fit for their respective party.
Nothing so noble as that.
He's already failed that weakly-expressed test.
As far as Corbyn's personal thoughts my comments are as speculative as any one else's, certainly Corbyn has more than one eye on NO 10 and his actions are more than likely coloured by that ambition.
The ERG group are certainly Brexiteers at any cost, they are also a collection of right wingers who frankly I wouldn't trust with anything at all, this gang would relish, no deal, no conditions, no restraints and would tear to shreds, employment rights, human rights and then unless you are one of the wealthy elite, you will very soon be a serf to our own alleged government.
Just to clarify, the very extremes of left or right are potentially far more dangerous if turned loose, they must be kept on a very short leash.
Not totally opposed to leaving the EU as such, but leaving in this cack handed manner is a total farce, no use Brexiteers bleating "the nasty EU wouldn't give us what we wanted" that was never going to happen just by tossing teddy and spitting dummies, long before the referendum there should have been a practical plan with those allegedly in charge knowing what was possible, what was negotiable and what hadn't a hope in hell, then we may just have got a result from the referendum which could and would have been followed and sufficiently supported.
Sadly we must now deal with the farce we have, with very little support from either side of the remain/leave division.
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Originally Posted by silver fox
As far as Corbyn's personal thoughts my comments are as speculative as any one else's, certainly Corbyn has more than one eye on NO 10 and his actions are more than likely coloured by that ambition.
The ERG group are certainly Brexiteers at any cost, they are also a collection of right wingers who frankly I wouldn't trust with anything at all, this gang would relish, no deal, no conditions, no restraints and would tear to shreds, employment rights, human rights and then unless you are one of the wealthy elite, you will very soon be a serf to our own alleged government.
Just to clarify, the very extremes of left or right are potentially far more dangerous if turned loose, they must be kept on a very short leash.
Not totally opposed to leaving the EU as such, but leaving in this cack handed manner is a total farce, no use Brexiteers bleating "the nasty EU wouldn't give us what we wanted" that was never going to happen just by tossing teddy and spitting dummies, long before the referendum there should have been a practical plan with those allegedly in charge knowing what was possible, what was negotiable and what hadn't a hope in hell, then we may just have got a result from the referendum which could and would have been followed and sufficiently supported.
Sadly we must now deal with the farce we have, with very little support from either side of the remain/leave division.
Originally Posted by silver fox
As far as Corbyn's personal thoughts my comments are as speculative as any one else's,...
Not quite.
Originally Posted by silver fox
...certainly Corbyn has more than one eye on NO 10 and his actions are more than likely coloured by that ambition.
Yes.
Originally Posted by silver fox
Not totally opposed to leaving the EU as such...
.
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