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We are where we are for a number of reasons not least of which is the sheer arrogance of the 'liberal elite' in calling for a Referendum which they quite simply couldn't lose.
Having had that Referendum the same 'liberal elite' has conspired to thwart the wishes of the people at every turn.
At the heart of this is the tribal system of politics we have in this country. Labour would no more vote for a Conservative deal than ban the singing of the Red Flag at Conference - the same with the Conservatives for any deal brought before the house by Labour.
Anyone believing there could be any meaningful level of consensus on this matter is quite frankly deluded.
To constantly harp on about 'lies' and 'liars' making people vote as they did is far too simplistic a view - do those proffering that argument honestly believe it? Are they seriously asking us to believe millions of people were duped into voting as they did?
Whilst lies or, bending the truth or, being economical with the facts - whatever handle is put upon it had a bearing on the result - the underlying root of why leave won is not simply lies.
For decades an entire class of people have been ignored by the 'political elite'. Invariably this class inhabits ex-industrial communities with high unemployment and low prospects. Usually these communities have experienced high levels of immigration which hasn't always changed their way of life for the better.
This discontent has been fanned by the likes of Farage and real anger was expressed in the vote to leave.
Added to this the 'better offs', the young, the newly affluent property owning classes simply couldn't be arsed to vote and so ...................
I also fear that if the 'Liberal Elite' believe they have this in the bag then they also, are sadly deluded.
I believe that the mood of the Electorate is being greatly underestimated and come a General Election Johnson will galvanise those who believe they are disenfranchised against the arrogance of the Liberal Elite.
Will that be a good thing? Only history will tell.
Simplistic views may well be what the country needs , much of the content in political dialog is riddled in ambiguity purposefully as to try and mislead many .
Its no secret people have been fined over misleading /corrupt moves in relation to targeting certain groups in relation to Brexit (see attachment )
How do you think this country will be better off outside the EU?
You say there were lies on both sides, which I'll agree with to a point, but remainers know exactly what being in the EU involves, as they've lived it for 40 odd years. Leavers do not. So lying about leaving the EU and lying about remaining aren't quite the same in my book. Don't get me wrong, lies are lies. It's just that some are more easily discounted than others.
So what is going to improve with Brexit?
Don't hold your breath waiting for a logical, sensible answer, at best you'll get a chorus of Rule Britannia or some such, but nothing of substance.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a logical, sensible answer, at best you'll get a chorus of Rule Britannia or some such, but nothing of substance.
The EU is totally outdated, farcical and keen to look after its own interests.
An audit has just been released, btw auditing of MEPs is done by MEPs - not an independent body as happens with most businesses, and it was discovered that the EU cannot account for £4.6bn that is up £0.2bn on the previous year.
Let's just let that sink in £9bn has been lost/unaccounted for in just 2 years and not one of those overpaid MEPs have to account for that to anyone.
Today the EU have been in talks with Bercow of all people on how to put a block on Brexit'. For a start Bercow should not be sticking his nose in as his job requires impartiality but secondly the EU should not be entertaining him and instead should be seeking a resolution. Why would you wish to stay in an institution that has no intention of ever letting you leave??
The private pension pots alone account for £355m while people here are having to work longer, many have lost their pensions & women born in the 50's will see very little of theirs having budgeted for years to be retiring earlier. Kind of grates a little.
Do you want me to go on?
Whole in theory open borders across the whole world would be fantastic but in reality it just doesn't work.
In 2019 Britain is home to modern slavery! There is people trafficking happening right under our noses! People are brought here, they have their personal documents taken from them,they work all hours and have their wages taken and are left with a tiny bit of pocket money and they live in fear of the people who traffic them. They are subject to living in HMO's by fraudulent 'landlords' who in turn dupe the actual landlord by pretending to be a nice sweet family wishing to rent but then they carve up the house, take in £1000s per month and don't even pay the actual landlord!
Most of these traffickers are of Eastern European descent, fact not fiction, they come here because it is so easy and people are duped into coming here with offers of jobs, free healthcare, benefits etc then they become trapped. C'mon, modern day slavery?? You think that is a good thing??
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The EU is totally outdated, farcical and keen to look after its own interests.
An audit has just been released, btw auditing of MEPs is done by MEPs - not an independent body as happens with most businesses, and it was discovered that the EU cannot account for £4.6bn that is up £0.2bn on the previous year.
Let's just let that sink in £9bn has been lost/unaccounted for in just 2 years and not one of those overpaid MEPs have to account for that to anyone.
Today the EU have been in talks with Bercow of all people on how to put a block on Brexit'. For a start Bercow should not be sticking his nose in as his job requires impartiality but secondly the EU should not be entertaining him and instead should be seeking a resolution. Why would you wish to stay in an institution that has no intention of ever letting you leave??
The private pension pots alone account for £355m while people here are having to work longer, many have lost their pensions & women born in the 50's will see very little of theirs having budgeted for years to be retiring earlier. Kind of grates a little.
Do you want me to go on?
Whole in theory open borders across the whole world would be fantastic but in reality it just doesn't work.
In 2019 Britain is home to modern slavery! There is people trafficking happening right under our noses! People are brought here, they have their personal documents taken from them,they work all hours and have their wages taken and are left with a tiny bit of pocket money and they live in fear of the people who traffic them. They are subject to living in HMO's by fraudulent 'landlords' who in turn dupe the actual landlord by pretending to be a nice sweet family wishing to rent but then they carve up the house, take in £1000s per month and don't even pay the actual landlord!
Most of these traffickers are of Eastern European descent, fact not fiction, they come here because it is so easy and people are duped into coming here with offers of jobs, free healthcare, benefits etc then they become trapped. C'mon, modern day slavery?? You think that is a good thing??
Of course the EU looks after it's own interests including the UK currently, agree there are many areas which could most certainly be better, however have you looked at IFS reports recently? thanks to Brexit uncertainty and preparations the UK has already lost £66billion, a no deal exit is forecast to push UK borrowing in excess of £100billion pushing debt to 90% of GDP, government spending may keep growth for a short period, however unless there is major growth in our economy this is unsustainable and will result in a return to austerity, spending cuts, increased taxes, in other words a considerably poorer outlook than the "outdated" EU.
Your follow up comment regarding people trafficking, modern day slavery etc; all of this is our own failing, employers only too happy to employ so called agency staff and gang master labour, along with a government that turns a blind eye to it, indeed actively encourages this by cutting police, customs and border control staff. These evil practices aren't legal here nor in the EU, please explain just how this activity is down to the EU.
The setting back of pension dates is our own bloody government, not the EU, in fact most EU countries still have a lower retirement age than we do and in many cases a higher state pension as a right
Suggest you aim your arrows in the right direction, the EU is far from perfect, but don't blame the EU for what our own government does.
Of course the EU looks after it's own interests including the UK currently, agree there are many areas which could most certainly be better, however have you looked at IFS reports recently? thanks to Brexit uncertainty and preparations the UK has already lost £66billion, a no deal exit is forecast to push UK borrowing in excess of £100billion pushing debt to 90% of GDP, government spending may keep growth for a short period, however unless there is major growth in our economy this is unsustainable and will result in a return to austerity, spending cuts, increased taxes, in other words a considerably poorer outlook than the "outdated" EU.
Your follow up comment regarding people trafficking, modern day slavery etc; all of this is our own failing, employers only too happy to employ so called agency staff and gang master labour, along with a government that turns a blind eye to it, indeed actively encourages this by cutting police, customs and border control staff. These evil practices aren't legal here nor in the EU, please explain just how this activity is down to the EU.
The setting back of pension dates is our own bloody government, not the EU, in fact most EU countries still have a lower retirement age than we do and in many cases a higher state pension as a right
Suggest you aim your arrows in the right direction, the EU is far from perfect, but don't blame the EU for what our own government does.
One of the most sensible and realistic comments I've heard well said .
Of course the EU looks after it's own interests including the UK currently, agree there are many areas which could most certainly be better, however have you looked at IFS reports recently? thanks to Brexit uncertainty and preparations the UK has already lost £66billion, a no deal exit is forecast to push UK borrowing in excess of £100billion pushing debt to 90% of GDP, government spending may keep growth for a short period, however unless there is major growth in our economy this is unsustainable and will result in a return to austerity, spending cuts, increased taxes, in other words a considerably poorer outlook than the "outdated" EU.
Your follow up comment regarding people trafficking, modern day slavery etc; all of this is our own failing, employers only too happy to employ so called agency staff and gang master labour, along with a government that turns a blind eye to it, indeed actively encourages this by cutting police, customs and border control staff. These evil practices aren't legal here nor in the EU, please explain just how this activity is down to the EU.
The setting back of pension dates is our own bloody government, not the EU, in fact most EU countries still have a lower retirement age than we do and in many cases a higher state pension as a right
Suggest you aim your arrows in the right direction, the EU is far from perfect, but don't blame the EU for what our own government does.
As we give £39bn to the EU EACH MONTH then £66bn we have lost over 3 months pales into insignificance.
As for cuts to our services Inc border control then I'm not sure how this has helped modern day slavery continue to be. Those coming here are doing so legally, they have every right to be here and therefore would not be stopped even if we had more border control. And that is the problem, because we have a lenient attitude as to who comes here as part of deals brokered with the EU then we are less able to prevent people trafficking.
I am well aware that we have decided our own rules as to what the pensionable age for women is. What I did write is that it is slightly galling that we as a country cannot afford to keep the status as it was for pensions whilst sitting watching MEPs cream off billions to their own private pension pots
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