Diesel and Petrol cars banned by 2040.

[The PNP]

I plead guilty to all of the above but certainly not to using lung damaging forest destroying woodburning stoves my conscience won't let me damage local childrens lungs....Eco hypocrites are everywhere and PNP is one.

Gosh - we're back to the same old yet again! Please tell us honestly, how often do you actually see smoke coming from chimneys with a stove-cowl fitted? In my experience, rarely. Now how often do you see smoke coming from cars tailpipes? In my experience, quite frequently - and then there's the recent VW smoking tailpipe debacle!

Consider now the great tonnage of fossil fuels (coal, oil, road/aviation-fuels, etc) burnt daily in the UK. Woodstoves nationally consume a mere fraction of that....It's obvious the majority of soot particles in our air originate from motor vehicles, etc - not from Defra-approved smokeless woodstoves.

[sandGroundZero]

#42 Is this just for road vehicles? …I honestly cannot envisage this happening in fifteen years (2035 now given) for many reasons.
How will people be encouraged to give up their reliable old car to pay out for a far more not so reliable expensive car?

• Government subsidies have been offered for new purchases of these - but that value has dropped since 2018.
  The National Grid struggles to provide for a sudden mass demand of electricity - how will it cope with a sudden demand for around 31 million cars? Where will this additional power come from?
• Charging a car at home overnight will require special charging kits that will cost extra, and this option will not available for those who do not have a parking space or live in flats etc.,
• Travelling into London will be impossible even for those living just outside the city - how will commuters fare? Is this the real reason for the HS2?
• Each battery will require several changes during the life time of the car - these are very costly and likely to be even more so as component metals become scarce.

…

Discount for the moment the problem of GHGs. Think what you're going to lose by failure to adopt innovations. Autonomous EVs offer the hope of cleaner, quieter urban spaces. Many scenarios forecast an end to parking regimes; pedestrian friendly cities; clean air!

Retaining internal combustion engines and current patterns of movement gives you in 15 or 20 years time more of the congestion, noise and air pollution currently evident in cities.

It was mass automobile ownership that did it for Southport's Victorian ambience.

.

[Kippax]

The National Grid struggles to provide for a sudden mass demand of electricity - how will it cope with a sudden demand for around 31 million cars? Where will this additional power come from?

Something else that’s gone under the radar slightly is that from 2025, gas boilers for central heating and hot water will be banned in all new build homes.
With a possibility that gas hobs and ovens will also be banned and there will be no connection to the gas grid.

So all new build homes will need electricity for all heating, lighting, cooking, power etc. Electric boilers are available now and more will be developed but will have a huge additional drain on the grid.

Air and ground source heat pumps are an alternative but these need electricity to operate (lots of it in cold weather), solar is another option but I wouldn’t like to rely on it to run everything in the home 24 / 7 with just a few panels on the roof and it certainly wouldn’t work in the hundreds of apartment blocks that are going up in our cities.

So add this additional demand onto the existing National grid plus the demand for vehicle charging and I can see problems ahead.

Can the existing power stations meet the additional demand, is the distribution grid capable of carrying the additional demand, are rural areas suitably connected.

[Alikado]

Something else that’s gone under the radar slightly is that from 2025, gas boilers for central heating and hot water will be banned in all new build homes.
With a possibility that gas hobs and ovens will also be banned and there will be no connection to the gas grid.

So all new build homes will need electricity for all heating, lighting, cooking, power etc. Electric boilers are available now and more will be developed but will have a huge additional drain on the grid.

Air and ground source heat pumps are an alternative but these need electricity to operate (lots of it in cold weather), solar is another option but I wouldn’t like to rely on it to run everything in the home 24 / 7 with just a few panels on the roof and it certainly wouldn’t work in the hundreds of apartment blocks that are going up in our cities.

So add this additional demand onto the existing National grid plus the demand for vehicle charging and I can see problems ahead.

Can the existing power stations meet the additional demand, is the distribution grid capable of carrying the additional demand, are rural areas suitably connected.

The answer to all is a definite no, we have power stations coming to end of life, others being decommissioned because they use the wromg type of fuel and a Government who cannot find anybody to build us new ones. The distribution grid is already overloaded in many areas with cables running 'hot' and there is very little extra capacity available anywhere.

[Derek H]

The answer to all is a definite no, we have power stations coming to end of life, others being decommissioned because they use the wromg type of fuel and a Government who cannot find anybody to build us new ones. The distribution grid is already overloaded in many areas with cables running 'hot' and there is very little extra capacity available anywhere.

Norway is way in front - see this: https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/

The number of el-cars in Norway is increasing day by day - and our hydro-electicity is a benefit to us.

What would such policies cost the UK government? Lots and lots! Don't think any UK government would dare to match Norway!

[local]

Gosh - we're back to the same old yet again! Please tell us honestly, how often do you actually see smoke coming from chimneys with a stove-cowl fitted? In my experience, rarely. Now how often do you see smoke coming from cars tailpipes? In my experience, quite frequently - and then there's the recent VW smoking tailpipe debacle!

Consider now the great tonnage of fossil fuels (coal, oil, road/aviation-fuels, etc) burnt daily in the UK. Woodstoves nationally consume a mere fraction of that....It's obvious the majority of soot particles in our air originate from motor vehicles, etc - not from Defra-approved smokeless woodstoves.

You keep pedalling lies and I will reply with endless statistics and proof;


The latest government findings reveal that a single wood burner generates twice the number of harmful PM2.5 particles than a diesel exhaust.

The British Medical Journal found that just one “wood log burning stove” sends more PM2.5 into the atmosphere than a “1,000 petrol cars”.

A joint study by Kings College and the National Physical Laboratory, for example estimates in London and Birmingham, that wood burning is responsible for “between 23 to 31 per cent of PM2.5 emissions”.


With Links;

https://transportexchangegroup.com/2...-reducing-co2/

[sandGroundZero]

Something else that’s gone under the radar slightly is that from 2025, gas boilers for central heating and hot water will be banned in all new build homes.

I recommend a commentary Gas boilers to be banned in 2025? We dont think so. It points to a tendency for alarming snippets to grow out of proportion these internet days.

Perhaps we should take consolation from the suggestion that in the convoluted workings-out of government policy, there are at least some mechanisms to put aspirations into the public sphere.

.

[Kippax]

I recommend a commentary Gas boilers to be banned in 2025? We dont think so. It points to a tendency for alarming snippets to grow out of proportion these internet days.

Perhaps we should take consolation from the suggestion that in the convoluted workings-out of government policy, there are at least some mechanisms to put aspirations into the public sphere.

.

I’ve spent over 40 years in the industry dealing with all of the major house builders, it’s all over the industry.

its coming

[sandGroundZero]

The National Grid struggles to provide for a sudden mass demand of electricity - how will it cope with a sudden demand for around 31 million cars? Where will this additional power come from?

There is a large presumption implicit in this quote.

Bear in mind that, in a period of massive technological and social change, patterns of behaviour change. Apart from statutory requirements, market mechanisms will exert their influence.

[sandGroundZero]

I’ve spent over 40 years in the industry dealing with all of the major house builders, it’s all over the industry.
its coming

Yes; I suppose gas boilers will have to go, eventually. However it will be very surprising, if that happens in the time frame suggested.

[Alikado]

Existing Petrol & Diesel engines and Gas Boilers will still be around for many many years the bans being mentioned are for NEW SALES which will probably lead to a surge in sales before any ban comes in.

[Snig's foot]

You keep pedalling lies and I will reply with endless statistics and proof;


The latest government findings reveal that a single wood burner generates twice the number of harmful PM2.5 particles than a diesel exhaust.

The British Medical Journal found that just one “wood log burning stove” sends more PM2.5 into the atmosphere than a “1,000 petrol cars”.

A joint study by Kings College and the National Physical Laboratory, for example estimates in London and Birmingham, that wood burning is responsible for “between 23 to 31 per cent of PM2.5 emissions”.


With Links;

https://transportexchangegroup.com/2...-reducing-co2/

I share your concern for the uncritical adoption of woodburners in recent years. However you claim that you are arguing with facts.
You say that there was a BMJ study which said that one wood stove emitted more pollution than 1000 petrol cars. In fact this quote was not part of the BMJ study, but was an online comment to the BMJ website from an Australian researcher. She was quoting from studies in Australia, where wood smoke is a serious pollutant for many communities.
A review of these studies is given here: http://woodsmoke.3sc.net/woodheater-car-comparison
It emphasises that modern petrol (and diesel with particulate filters) are very low emission when it comes to particulates (although emissions of brake, tyre and road surface have to be added to the figures to give real life emissions...the graphic suggests that this doubles emissions).
I'm very concerned about the burning of non-standard fuels, e.g. old tanalised timber, which typically contains arsenic or other unpleasant chemicals. I know it goes on having spoken to folk who've installed woodburners.

[sandGroundZero]

Existing Petrol & Diesel engines and Gas Boilers will still be around for many many years the bans being mentioned are for NEW SALES which will probably lead to a surge in sales before any ban comes in.

1. wait to see if it gets into legislation; then
2. see how it may be implemented

New housing estates created without gas infrastructure (if it happens) could pose a problem in future in the event some technological fix appears — some seem to imagine hydrogen replacing natural gas, though that's speculative, at present. Would it be expedient to replace older boilers, now? I wonder.

In any case, I anticipate problems associated with increased flood risk (owing, not least, to sea level rise in Sefton) will be a greater headache for policy makers.

[Alikado]

1. wait to see if it gets into legislation; then
2. see how it may be implemented

New housing estates created without gas infrastructure (if it happens) could pose a problem in future in the event some technological fix appears — some seem to imagine hydrogen replacing natural gas, though that's speculative, at present. Would it be expedient to replace older boilers, now? I wonder.

In any case, I anticipate problems associated with increased flood risk (owing, not least, to sea level rise in Sefton) will be a greater headache for policy makers.

Good luck with that remember the R101 & The Hindenberg?

[sandGroundZero]

…highly reactive is certainly a problem with hydrogen. At present it is costly to produce and distribute.