Trump or Corbyn?

[Hamble]

Sadly you didn't specify who you were responding to over the Mail, just included it in your Labour supporter bashing.

OK, just post on here where and when I have been abusive, remember not agreeing with your opinion is not abuse, as far as always being courteous to me, only very recently your "dinosaur" comment, I could retrace, but frankly can't be bothered.

Show where I have been abusive and you will most certainly receive unreserved aplogies, otherwise, old advice, "when you're in a hole, stop digging"

I called you
Quote
"(A dear old) dinosaur."

Quote sf
"
Your opinions and views are yours OK,making totally unfounded accusations and allegations is not OK.

Yet you continue to play the wounded individual and we should all accept very underhanded comments without response."


Quote Seived
"Can’t you see what you’re doing? If you were genuinely “surprised” that people were unaware of Nazi slave labour, that is what you should have said... “I am surprised that people are ignorant of the fact some Nazi German companies used slave labour in Concentration camps in Germany and Poland.” Instead you chose to give those people a political label; the inference is clear, and quite simply untrue.

You and I and SF, and others, have been involved in enough discussions on this topic for you to be fully aware that we are not ignorant of this fact. We have both condemned Nazi Germany for both this, and the wholesale slaughter of Jewish people, on many occasions. Now you chose to label us as Labour supporters, who, by default, must be anti-Semitic. Can't you understand how offensive this is?

Do you agree with the replies I received?
I can’t respond to that based on the replies as a homogeneous lump, so I'll just address two issues.

Right or left, most people read the media that corresponds with their side. In your case, that’s right wing. In mine it’s left, but I also read some credible right wing publications (not the Daily Mail) to see both sides. No one side is ever 100% correct in its beliefs or assumptions.

You are perfectly entitled to boycott German companies on the basis of their war record. Many moons ago I worked at an engineering company in Southport whose owner (non Jewish) wouldn’t have a single item of German origin in the building. I still recall him having a hissy fit when he saw a Faber pencil in the office. I thought it was crazy, but memories of war were a lot more raw in those days.

I’m in agreement with SF on this topic. I don’t believe that the sins of the fathers should be passed down to further generations. Although I’m not a religious person at all, it’s a passage that’s often repeated in both of our bibles, and I think that it's good advice."

Afterthought: And the irony of the inference that I, as a Labour supporter, must be anti-Semitic doesn't go unnoticed. You might recall that I temporarily banned a right wing member on this thread for questioning the number of Jewish people slaughtered during the Holocaust, and C&Ping text from a Holocaust denier.

You disappoint me, Hamble."

Personal attack with accusations .
I did not call Labour voters antisemitic.

I did not infer Labour voters were antisemitic.
"
How dare you come up with that sort of rubbish, why do think I said the WE MUST NEVER FORGET THE ATROCITIES OF WW2, I think most are very aware that slave labour was used not just in factories but in every aspect of construction and production by the Nazis during WW2, it was and remains a horror story."

How dare you refer to my feelings on buying from war crime manufacturers as rubbish.

Quote Seived
"Just how low are you prepared to go in your quest to discredit those who support Labour?"

Adding insult to injury.

Quote SF
"You brought up the subject, you made the allegation regarding Labour supporters, you made the statement linking German production to Nazism, to then justify your original comments based on the response is pathetic and more than a little ugly."

I did not make the allegation or infer that SF or Seived had EVER done anything other than opposed antisemitism.
Please stop repeating that claim Seived.

Quote Seived
"I didn't back up SF on the basis of him being a Labour supporter. I backed him up on the basis that he's a decent human being. And what on earth are our "sensitivities on the subject"?

?
Depressing.I thought the truth would count more.

Sensitivities on the subject- Labour has just lost support heavily in the local elections.

Quote Seived
"At every opportunity you paint the Labour party with a very broad anti-Semitic brush, often based on spurious information from the right wing press. It should come as no surprise that members refute your opinion, and sometimes fling distasteful comments your way."

Another unfounded insult.

Will both of you please stop repeating that I implied you were antisemitic-not true and I resent the added on claim.

When I asked you to apologise it was not with the expectation that you would.
It is my prerogative having been wrongly accused to offer you a chance to put right what you did wrong.

So there it is.
Now walk away without losing face just respect.

[silver fox]

I am surprised Labour supporters and 1 anarchist are ignorant of the fact some Nazi German company'S used slave labour in Concentration camps in Germany and Poland.

That is your original quote which sparked this dispute, your label of Labour supporters is quite inclusive, no distinctions, no reservations.

Totally untrue and inaccurate, some of us did not take kindly to be labelled in this manner, two in particular, (although dreaded ignorant Labour supporters) have been supportive on this issue in the past.

[Hamble]

That is your original quote which sparked this dispute, your label of Labour supporters is quite inclusive, no distinctions, no reservations.

Totally untrue and inaccurate, some of us did not take kindly to be labelled in this manner, two in particular, (although dreaded ignorant Labour supporters) have been supportive on this issue in the past.

"Labour supporters and 1 anarchist" clearly refers to this thread this point this truth that
Mr BS posted on Daily heil
Alikado posted "racist" for not buying German
You.

(Labour supporters-1 anarchist.)

Your refusal to accept
Quote Hamble
"Are the above manufactured in the original Nazi run premises?
You should look up the company crimes before judging me."

Lets face it whatever I said you were going to have your rant.

[silver fox]

"Labour supporters and 1 anarchist" clearly refers to this thread this point this truth that
Mr BS posted on Daily heil
Alikado posted "racist" for not buying German
You.

(Labour supporters-1 anarchist.)

Your refusal to accept
Quote Hamble
"Are the above manufactured in the original Nazi run premises?
You should look up the company crimes before judging me."

Lets face it whatever I said you were going to have your rant.

It had already been made perfectly clear by two or three posters, that many brands you quoted were in fact no longer German owned, with a high degree of manufacture not even in Germany, the possibility of these goods being produced in a "Nazi" factory would be extremely slim indeed, the likelihood of there being any connection with wartime management non-existent.

[Toodles McGinty]

This thread seems to have got out of hand.

Just reading through it again, H brought up antisemitism. Then said Labour supporters on here are 'ignorant of the fact some Nazi German company'S used slave labour in Concentration camps in Germany and Poland.'. SF said that in that respect, we'd never buy anything Japanese.

Nothing wrong with SF's statement, just opinion. Calling Labour supporters ignorant is offensive. Particularly considering we tend to be more sympathetic to the plight of others, hence the 'bleeding heart liberal' tag.

As for the 'Daily Heil', while Rothmere might have decided it made financial sense to stop persecuting Jews at the time, that particular rag hasn't changed its tone since. If Hamble doesn't regularly refer to that particular tabloid, then fair enough. I thought she did. Apologies if I was wrong.

I can't see where antisemitism has entered into it at all. Nor do I see where Hamble's religion enters into it. Nazi atrocities are universally condemned. There can be few people who haven't some connection to their horrors in some way. I know I have, but I'm not Jewish.

I think there's been a lot of reading between the lines rather than actual insults. Threads always veer off and heated debates occur. But I don't think anyone on here has really meant any offence.

[local]

Its just another variation on Godwins Law;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[Hamble]

It had already been made perfectly clear by two or three posters, that many brands you quoted were in fact no longer German owned, with a high degree of manufacture not even in Germany, the possibility of these goods being produced in a "Nazi" factory would be extremely slim indeed, the likelihood of there being any connection with wartime management non-existent.

The same could be said for the Daily Mail.

It is not for anyone to judge my decision not to buy from certain German firms who profited and still do or my over sensitivity on the origin of these products.

It is rather perverse of you to argue offence at my post when the whole idea that anyone would knowingly not want to buy if there was a choice.
At first I thought that was the basis of your anger (if it implied you did not care of the origin).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...z-1635909.html

[Hamble]

This thread seems to have got out of hand.

Just reading through it again, H brought up antisemitism. Then said Labour supporters on here are 'ignorant of the fact some Nazi German company'S used slave labour in Concentration camps in Germany and Poland.'. SF said that in that respect, we'd never buy anything Japanese.

Nothing wrong with SF's statement, just opinion. Calling Labour supporters ignorant is offensive. Particularly considering we tend to be more sympathetic to the plight of others, hence the 'bleeding heart liberal' tag.

As for the 'Daily Heil', while Rothmere might have decided it made financial sense to stop persecuting Jews at the time, that particular rag hasn't changed its tone since. If Hamble doesn't regularly refer to that particular tabloid, then fair enough. I thought she did. Apologies if I was wrong.

I can't see where antisemitism has entered into it at all. Nor do I see where Hamble's religion enters into it. Nazi atrocities are universally condemned. There can be few people who haven't some connection to their horrors in some way. I know I have, but I'm not Jewish.

I think there's been a lot of reading between the lines rather than actual insults. Threads always veer off and heated debates occur. But I don't think anyone on here has really meant any offence.

Not out of hand it is being discussed.

It would have been ignorant not to understand why I could not buy certain German products and still is.

I did not mention anti antisemitism that was Seived and SF who claim I implied it.
I deny absolutely.

[Hamble]

Its just another variation on Godwins Law;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Post count Godwin
+1

[Toodles McGinty]

Not out of hand it is being discussed.

It would have been ignorant not to understand why I could not buy certain German products and still is.

To be fair, it was nobody's business which goods you buy, or why, until you offered the information. When you did, then it was up for discussion.

I don't think anybody was questioning the reasons why you boycott whatever you wish to. It was simply pointed out that so many consumer products are manufactured in places where atrocities have happened. Or maybe stored or assembled in other places similarly, that it is difficult to make a moral choice.

There are few products untouched in that way. But I don't think your reasons were being questioned.

Your choices and your religion are nobody else's business until you volunteer them.

[Toodles McGinty]

Post count Godwin
+1

It would be easier to list the threads on here that don't fall subject to Godwin's Law, sooner or later.

[Mr B S Sniffer]

As for the 'Daily Heil', while Rothmere might have decided it made financial sense to stop persecuting Jews at the time, that particular rag hasn't changed its tone since. If Hamble doesn't regularly refer to that particular tabloid, then fair enough. I thought she did. Apologies if I was wrong.

That was precisely my point in answer to post#125 and why I posted the picture.

Post #125
Are the above manufactured in the original Nazi run premises?

You should look up the company crimes before judging me.

Nothing to do with her religion more to do with the double standards she exhibits on numerous occasions as per this thread, and others. Not a single condemnation of the lies the true blue Tory loving Mail dreams up, but yep I won’t buy BMW’s but I'll believe the Daily Mail!


The free press should be there to give the facts true representation but as we all know the right fear Corbyn and thus have mounted a complete hatchet job on him which your average Tory has lapped up in droves.

It’s like nectar to a bee.

The Iran crisis is a prime example. Caution is always the best way forward in my opinion. To many lives have been lost to gung ho jingoism in the past. To think gung ho Johnson stands on the verge of being given the keys to No. 10....Jesus it's not a rugger match!

Do we never learn?

She claims, quote post #176
"The paper's support ended after violence at a BUF rally in Kensington Olympia in June 1934." (Oh for Wikipedia, now where have I heard that?)

That may be so publicly but privately Rothermere was still corresponding with Hitler right up to the start of the war. I would post the letter dated Jan 1st 1939, (no pun intended), only I've no doubt it would be misinterpreted.

I gave up on politics years ago so I really couldn't care less either way.

Yours the “anarchist”

[said]

That was precisely my point in answer to post#125 and why I posted the picture.






Nothing to do with her religion more to do with the double standards she exhibits on numerous occasions as per this thread, and others. Not a single condemnation of the lies the true blue Tory loving Mail dreams up, but yep I won’t buy BMW’s but I'll believe the Daily Mail!


The free press should be there to give the facts true representation but as we all know the right fear Corbyn and thus have mounted a complete hatchet job on him which your average Tory has lapped up in droves.

It’s like nectar to a bee.

The Iran crisis is a prime example. Caution is always the best way forward in my opinion. To many lives have been lost to gung ho jingoism in the past. To think gung ho Johnson stands on the verge of being given the keys to No. 10....Jesus it's not a rugger match!

Do we never learn?

She claims, quote post #176
"The paper's support ended after violence at a BUF rally in Kensington Olympia in June 1934." (Oh for Wikipedia, now where have I heard that?)

That may be so publicly but privately Rothermere was still corresponding with Hitler right up to the start of the war. I would post the letter dated Jan 1st 1939, (no pun intended), only I've no doubt it would be misinterpreted.

I gave up on politics years ago so I really couldn't care less either way.

Yours the “anarchist”

Who are you trying to kid? You always respond to topics on politics! That is like someone who claims to have given up on smoking but smokes cigarettes just the same!

[said]

Post count Godwin
+1

I agree with Corbyn's stance on the UK not taking part in any conflict that is none of UK's business, and I agree with him that the USA appears to be intent on the continuation of war as opposed to dialogue, and I agree that the USA pose the greatest threat to many nations for its own benefit and greed. I also agree that renationalising our service would be nice - but may not be possible.

I disagree with Godwin, whoever he may be. I disagree with Corbyn's support for the Palestinians - for I feel that it is they who have initiated much of their own downfall and continue to do so. To support the Palestinians is the same as being against the Israelis. The Israeli people are mostly Jewish people. Corbyn is a member of the Fabian Society whose roots stem from a very dubious background and which follows a Marxist outlook on life. Marxist himself was antisimetic. Although the Labour party claim to be a socialist party - they are supported heavily by capitalists.

As for Jewish people - they are British people among whom I have many friends and have had for many, many years. I do not see them as Jewish when I am socialising with them, they are people the same as every other - in many respects they are better than many - for they bring up their families to have respect for others and are loyal to traditional aspects of life. I was temporary banned from this site, for copying and pasting part of a query brought up in the Jewish Gazette, that had been, in turn, posted by one of their Jewish readers. A fact I found rather hilarious but typical of the new liberal movement that we find ourselves embroiled in today.

As for Hitler - his ideas were understandable, if you are a lunatic as he was - as a leader he was an abomination of humanity - but he was not alone, although I doubt if any have gone to such hideous lengths as he did. There are thousands of people being killed today for no other reasons than for another's will for power and greed, both of which are a pestilence that humankind unfortunately, will never be rid of.

To this effect - I hope, we all feed the same. For my penny's worth - Hamble has made some very relevant points on this topic, that in some instances, have been misunderstood. I have followed the conversation and I agree with much of what Hamble has said and the responses have been relevant - but have not really seen the wider picture.

Back to the thread - Trump or Corbyn? Er! Could we have another contender, please? There does not seem to be much to choose between either of them!

[local]

Who would take Corbyn back to the days of Hitler and put him in power ?

Corbyn is a typical war fosterer who allow the evil to embed themselves.


The likes of Saddam Hussein and Assad rely on people like him to grow their power base.