Donald Tusk insult or harsh truth

[seivad]

The idea for the UK to leave the EU began more than twenty years ago and expanded nationwide. In all those years, those who supported the idea discussed and argued various points both personally and on the internet. So obviously, Brexit supporters were far more aware of all the facts and have a far stronger argument. Whereas those who claim that they want to Remain in the EU, still cannot give any strong reasons for doing so, and were unable to do so when the referendum came around. They merely put their hands over their ears when Brexit supporters explained the facts, they neither wanted to listen, nor to accept the arguments - now Remainer's state that they were totally unaware of the facts. Doh!

Facts... you? Your "facts" are refuted daily on this forum, on any topic.

[said]

Oh, where to start? There are shed loads of reasons:

Basically, the EU is a protectionist trading bloc. The big businesses lobby Brussels for more regulations to make it more difficult for small companies to enter the market and compete. This was one of the major complaints from the Leave camp. The EU freely admits that its precautions which impedes new ideas in life sciences and technology is used as disguised protectionism. The Customs Union imposes more than 13,000 tariffs on imported goods - as a result EU consumers are paying an average of 17% above World prices on food. The single market is a protectionist area where regulations are imposed uniformly on all goods and services and they must satisfy those regulations, whichever member state they are sold in. Only 8% of British companies trade with the EU - accounting for around 12%GDP - yet 100% of the UK regulations are determined in Brussels including for the 92% of UK companies that do not trade with the EU.

Banking - Anthony Brown, Head of the British Banker's Association reports that banks should have more competition. To do this, challenging banks should have a level playing field with prudent legislation. The UK government supported that but the EU frustrated teh banking markets by applying its rules to the UK's global financial institutions making them less competitive.

The EU introduced the very complicated VAT system - the UK could return to the more simplified purchase tax system after Brexit. In 1997, the UK proposed scrapping VAT on domestic fuel - the EU disagreed.

The British protested about the cruelty of exporting live lambs and calves to Europe for slaughter - the EU would not ban it.

Scotland was not allowed to impose minimum pricing on alcohol because the ECJ complained.

The UK fought to have control of the EU development funding granted to Britain to allow spending where it was most needed - the EU disagreed and continued to allocate the funding in a frivolous merry go round. After Brexit central spending will be allocated to suit national priorities.

The UK had variable passenger duty on British internal flights - the EU does not allow for that anywhere in Europe.

The EU abolished duty free purchases for European travellers.

Complicated EU rules can make procurement by public authorities a complete nightmare to sort out. After Brexit the government can set up a more effective system which would help improve public services.

David Cameron focused his near final negotiations with the EU on being allowed to stop paying UK child benefit payments to children who do not live in the UK. Britain will be allowed to ensure that EU citizens in the UK follow the same rules as British citizens on bringing in partners, the government will also have the freedom to set language rules for medical staff, etc., and to deport EU undesirables.

Most of the EU members regulations are set in Brussels - it is a one size fits all situation which is often inappropriate to local circumstances. This does not facilitate progress it hinders it! Once those regulations are in place it is difficult to change them, they just get added to. Each country needs its own set of local rules according to needs. Each set of regulations costs money - a lot of money. Since the 2008/9 financial crisis, the UK's contribution to the EU sky rocketed while the amount we received remained the same.

At the time of the referendum there was 39% youth unemployment in Italy, 45% in Spain and 49% in Greece - the unemployment rate was very high compared to other nations outside of the EU with similar economies and growth. This was one of the major concerns of Brexit supporters. Southern Europe is suffering badly, unable to kickstart their economies because decisions are being made by Brussels on their behalf for the benefit of too broad a group of nations and people.

This structural unemployment is bad enough, but the financial sector of Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain, is poor. The Bianco Popular of Spain was sold to Santander for one Euro, and Greece is on the verge of having to sell off some of its islands to get its budget approved by the Troika apparatchiks.

An even larger problem is about to explode - there are borrowers who just cannot afford the repayments. Italy could quite well experience a banking crisis which would bring down the Euro and subsequently the whole of the EU. A good outcome - since the EU has made so many people suffer in misery.

What about the manner in which the EU has behaved over the Withdrawal Agreement? This is not a democratic nor sensible approach, it has revealed itself as an aggressive bully. The EU refused to agree how financial and other services should be conducted until after Brexit - despite the UK's offer to allow EU firms based in teh UK to continue trading as before - despite EU customers buying six times more financial services from the UK (not the other way round). The EU are not prepared to grant import certificates to UK organic farmers until after Brexit, when there will be a ninemonth waiting period. It has stopped the Uk from participating in Galileo, Europe's Navigation System - despite our significant investment into it. The EU is threatening to stop our aircraft from taking off and blocking trains from entering the Channel Tunnel. Do you really want to be part of this expensive and dated dictatorship?

[seivad]

Oh, where to start? There are shed loads of reasons:

Basically, the EU is a protectionist trading bloc. The big businesses lobby Brussels for more regulations to make it more difficult for small companies to enter the market and compete. This was one of the major complaints from the Leave camp. The EU freely admits that its precautions which impedes new ideas in life sciences and technology is used as disguised protectionism. The Customs Union imposes more than 13,000 tariffs on imported goods - as a result EU consumers are paying an average of 17% above World prices on food. The single market is a protectionist area where regulations are imposed uniformly on all goods and services and they must satisfy those regulations, whichever member state they are sold in. Only 8% of British companies trade with the EU - accounting for around 12%GDP - yet 100% of the UK regulations are determined in Brussels including for the 92% of UK companies that do not trade with the EU.

Banking - Anthony Brown, Head of the British Banker's Association reports that banks should have more competition. To do this, challenging banks should have a level playing field with prudent legislation. The UK government supported that but the EU frustrated teh banking markets by applying its rules to the UK's global financial institutions making them less competitive.

The EU introduced the very complicated VAT system - the UK could return to the more simplified purchase tax system after Brexit. In 1997, the UK proposed scrapping VAT on domestic fuel - the EU disagreed.

The British protested about the cruelty of exporting live lambs and calves to Europe for slaughter - the EU would not ban it.

Scotland was not allowed to impose minimum pricing on alcohol because the ECJ complained.

The UK fought to have control of the EU development funding granted to Britain to allow spending where it was most needed - the EU disagreed and continued to allocate the funding in a frivolous merry go round. After Brexit central spending will be allocated to suit national priorities.

The UK had variable passenger duty on British internal flights - the EU does not allow for that anywhere in Europe.

The EU abolished duty free purchases for European travellers.

Complicated EU rules can make procurement by public authorities a complete nightmare to sort out. After Brexit the government can set up a more effective system which would help improve public services.

David Cameron focused his near final negotiations with the EU on being allowed to stop paying UK child benefit payments to children who do not live in the UK. Britain will be allowed to ensure that EU citizens in the UK follow the same rules as British citizens on bringing in partners, the government will also have the freedom to set language rules for medical staff, etc., and to deport EU undesirables.

Most of the EU members regulations are set in Brussels - it is a one size fits all situation which is often inappropriate to local circumstances. This does not facilitate progress it hinders it! Once those regulations are in place it is difficult to change them, they just get added to. Each country needs its own set of local rules according to needs. Each set of regulations costs money - a lot of money. Since the 2008/9 financial crisis, the UK's contribution to the EU sky rocketed while the amount we received remained the same.

At the time of the referendum there was 39% youth unemployment in Italy, 45% in Spain and 49% in Greece - the unemployment rate was very high compared to other nations outside of the EU with similar economies and growth. This was one of the major concerns of Brexit supporters. Southern Europe is suffering badly, unable to kickstart their economies because decisions are being made by Brussels on their behalf for the benefit of too broad a group of nations and people.

This structural unemployment is bad enough, but the financial sector of Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain, is poor. The Bianco Popular of Spain was sold to Santander for one Euro, and Greece is on the verge of having to sell off some of its islands to get its budget approved by the Troika apparatchiks.

An even larger problem is about to explode - there are borrowers who just cannot afford the repayments. Italy could quite well experience a banking crisis which would bring down the Euro and subsequently the whole of the EU. A good outcome - since the EU has made so many people suffer in misery.

What about the manner in which the EU has behaved over the Withdrawal Agreement? This is not a democratic nor sensible approach, it has revealed itself as an aggressive bully. The EU refused to agree how financial and other services should be conducted until after Brexit - despite the UK's offer to allow EU firms based in teh UK to continue trading as before - despite EU customers buying six times more financial services from the UK (not the other way round). The EU are not prepared to grant import certificates to UK organic farmers until after Brexit, when there will be a ninemonth waiting period. It has stopped the Uk from participating in Galileo, Europe's Navigation System - despite our significant investment into it. The EU is threatening to stop our aircraft from taking off and blocking trains from entering the Channel Tunnel. Do you really want to be part of this expensive and dated dictatorship?

Plagiarism: The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as your own.

If you're incorporating someone else's work into your comments, it's customary to give them full acknowledgement.

Here are 2 of your sources:

?https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ten-r...uropean-union/

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/b...s-to-leave-eu/

[said]

Plagiarism: The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as your own.

If you're incorporating someone else's work into your comments, it's customary to give them full acknowledgement.

Here are 2 of your sources:

?https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ten-r...uropean-union/

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/b...s-to-leave-eu/

Those reports themselves, and many others were gleaned from EU white papers, from UKIP's own reports and from Leave supporters own research long before they were published in the reports that you have included. I have those and several others, filed on my computer - many of the findings were openly discussed long before the referendum. A large number of the population were unaware of a Leave campaign that had been growing since the nineties, all the above topics and many more were discussed openly for many years.

[Toodles McGinty]

Whereas those who claim that they want to Remain in the EU, still cannot give any strong reasons for doing so, and were unable to do so when the referendum came around. They merely put their hands over their ears when Brexit supporters explained the facts, they neither wanted to listen, nor to accept the arguments - now Remainer's state that they were totally unaware of the facts. Doh!

Remainers didn't know why they wanted to remain? Remainers weren't actually aware of their lives? Remainers actually had no concept of existence? Remainers didn't know that by voting 'remain', their circumstances would stay exactly as they were before the referendum? Or are you saying that Remainers didn't actually understand the definition of 'remain': verb: to continue in the same state; continue to be as specified?

Remainers have 'given strong reasons for doing so'. From 'Campaign To Remain'.

Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers, representing 23% of global GDP
The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU
The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China
With Trump in the White House the UK’s strongest natural allies are France, Germany and our other West European neighbours
Tariff-free trade within the EU
The abolition of non-tariff barriers (quotas, subsidies, administrative rules etc.) among members
Participation in free trade agreements with Japan and Canada as an EU member
The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services
The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services
Cheaper food and alcohol imports from continental Europe
As a member of the EU the UK maintains a say in the shaping of the rules governing its trade with its European partners
3.1 million jobs in the UK are directly linked to exports to the EU
Free movement of labour has helped UK firms plug skills gaps (translators, doctors, plumbers)
Free movement of labour has helped address shortages of unskilled workers (fruit picking, catering)
The Single Market has brought the best continental footballers to the Premier League
The EU accounts for 47% of the UK’s stock of inward Foreign Direct Investment (FDI), worth over $1.2 trillion
Access to the EU Single Market has helped attract investment into the UK from outside the EU
No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market
Price transparency and removal of commissions on currency transactions across the Eurozone
FDI into the UK has effectively doubled since the creation of the EU Single Market
The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is around €7.3bn, or 0.4% of GDP (less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spending)
No time consuming border checks for travellers (apart from in the UK)
The City of London, as a global financial hub, has acted as a bridge between foreign business and the EU
British banks and insurance companies have been able to operate freely across the EU
Cornwall receives up to £750 million per year from the EU Social Fund (ESF)
Structural funding for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline (South Wales, Yorkshire)
Support for rural areas under the European Agricultural Fund for Regional Development (EAFRD)
EU funding for infrastructure projects in the UK including £122 million for the “Midlands engine” project
Financial support from the EU for over 3,000 small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the UK
EU funding for the British film industry
EU funding for British theatre, music and dance
EU funding for British sport, including football apprenticeships, tennis and rugby league
Glasgow (1990) and Liverpool (2008) benefitted from being European capitals of culture, stimulating their local economies
EU competition laws protect consumers by combatting monopolistic business practices
Strict controls on the operations of Multinational Corporations (MNCs) in the EU
Human Rights protected under the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
The death penalty can never be reintroduced as it is incompatible with EU membership
Minority languages such as Welsh and Irish are recognized and protected under EU law
The right to reside in any EU member state
The freedom to work in 28 countries without visa and immigration restrictions
The mutual recognition of professional qualifications has facilitated the free movement of engineers, teachers and doctors across the EU
The mutual recognition of educational diplomas
The Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR) has standardized assessment of language proficiency across the EU
The freedom to study in 28 countries (many EU universities teach courses in English and charge lower fees than in the UK)
The Erasmus programme of university exchanges (benefitting 16000 UK students a year)
The freedom to set up a business in 28 countries
The ability to retire in any member state
Pension transferability
The right to vote in local and European Parliamentary elections if resident in any member state
EU laws making it easier for British people to buy property on the continent
The right to receive emergency healthcare in any member state (EHIC card)
Consular protection from any EU embassy outside the EU
The EU has played a leading role in combatting global warming (Paris 2015 climate change conference)
Common EU greenhouse gas emissions targets (19% reduction from 1990 to 2015)
Improvements in air quality (significant reductions in sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides) as a result of EU legislation
Reductions in sewage emissions
Improvements in the quality of beaches and bathing water
EU standards on the quality of drinking water
Restrictions on landfill dumping
EU targets for recycling
Common EU regulations on the transportation and disposal of toxic waste
The implementation of EU policies to reduce noise pollution in urban areas
EU policies have stimulated offshore wind farms
Strict safety standards for cars, buses and trucks
Protection of endangered species and habitats (EU Natura 2000 network)
Strict ban on animal testing in the cosmetics industry
Membership of the European Medicines Agency (EMA) which monitors the quality and safety of medicines (until recently located in London)
13% of EU budget earmarked for scientific research and innovation
The UK receives £730 million a year in EU funding for research
EU funding for UK universities
Cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy as a member of Euratom
Minimum paid annual leave and time off work (Working Time Directive)
Equal pay between men and women enshrined in European law since 1957
The right to work no more than 48 hours a week without paid overtime
Minimum guaranteed maternity leave of 14 weeks for pregnant women
Rights to a minimum 18 weeks of parental leave after child birth
EU anti-discrimination laws governing age, religion and sexual orientation
EU rules governing health and safety at work
The rights to collective bargaining and trade union membership are enshrined in EU employment law
The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area
Since 1985 the UK has received a budget rebate equivalent to 66% of its net contribution to the EU budget
EU cross-country coordination offers greater protection from terrorists, pedophiles, people traffickers and cyber-crime
The European common arrest warrant
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection
EU consumer protection laws concerning transparency and product guarantees of quality and safety
Improved food labeling
A ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives
Cheaper air travel due to EU competition laws
Common EU air passenger rights
Deregulation of the European energy market has increased consumer choice and lowered prices
Mutual recognition of the common European driving license
The introduction of the European pet passport
The abolition of mobile telephone roaming charges
The EU acts as a guarantor of the Irish Good Friday Agreement
A frictionless Irish border
The EU acts as a guarantor of the special status of Gibraltar
The EU helped support and maintain democracy in Spain, Portugal and Greece from the 1970s and these countries have become major destinations for British tourists
EU membership has helped facilitate intercultural dialogue


I look forward to the Brexiteers answer to every single one of those points.

[Toodles McGinty]

from UKIP's own reports

*howling laughing*

[seivad]

Those reports themselves, and many others were gleaned from EU white papers, from UKIP's own reports and from Leave supporters own research long before they were published in the reports that you have included. I have those and several others, filed on my computer - many of the findings were openly discussed long before the referendum. A large number of the population were unaware of a Leave campaign that had been growing since the nineties, all the above topics and many more were discussed openly for many years.

And this negates the obligation to acknowledge sources, how?

[silver fox]

Those reports themselves, and many others were gleaned from EU white papers, from UKIP's own reports and from Leave supporters own research long before they were published in the reports that you have included. I have those and several others, filed on my computer - many of the findings were openly discussed long before the referendum. A large number of the population were unaware of a Leave campaign that had been growing since the nineties, all the above topics and many more were discussed openly for many years.

All objective and unbiased of course In your response to just one single benefit, you post a collection of borrowed opinions, which you may well agree with, but no indication of a benefit.

Your idea of the amount of trade between UK and the EU is at odds with every other published figures, you make much play on being able to buy goods cheaper without EU regulation, this may be true, however I have no doubt that these cheaper/low priced economies will need, want, be falling over themselves to buy our higher priced goods and services, or probably not, then of course the countries we previously bought from may also decide they don't need our goods, then we would have real problems.

Without selling we don't earn, without earnings we can't buy no matter how cheap the goods.

Purchasing the cheapest is great in the short term, but can be destructive in the long term.

[seivad]

you make much play on being able to buy goods cheaper without EU regulation,

In his loooooooong C&P, Said states:

Basically, the EU is a protectionist trading bloc. The big businesses lobby Brussels for more regulations to make it more difficult for small companies to enter the market and compete. This was one of the major complaints from the Leave camp. The EU freely admits that its precautions which impedes new ideas in life sciences and technology is used as disguised protectionism. The Customs Union imposes more than 13,000 tariffs on imported goods - as a result EU consumers are paying an average of 17% above World prices on food.

The EU may have 13,000 common customs tariffs for non-EU countries, but I'm sure that if Britain leaves without a deal not all of the items would apply to exports to Britain.

Nor is the EU unique in having protectionist policies. There are very few countries (I can't think of any) with tariff free/reduced tariffs on imports that will undercut the the sales of the same product produced domestically. It would benefit consumers, but it would devastate domestic business.

I know that Leavers are fond of quoting the savings that could be realised from a low or zero tariff economy. However, using the agricultural/food sector as an example, farmers would demand that they be afforded the same protection that the EU common customs tariffs give them. The alternative is to cease farming in the UK and import all of your food. Like that's going to happen!

[said]

Screwed up your C&P there, Sunshine. The font size is a bit of a giveaway too!

Oh! That one! Yes, well Politics is a bit different to accounting - there are a hell of a lot more facts to remember.

[Hamble]

Remainers didn't know why they wanted to remain? Remainers weren't actually aware of their lives? Remainers actually had no concept of existence? Remainers didn't know that by voting 'remain', their circumstances would stay exactly as they were before the referendum? Or are you saying that Remainers didn't actually understand the definition of 'remain': verb: to continue in the same state; continue to be as specified?

Remainers have 'given strong reasons for doing so'. From 'Campaign To Remain'.

Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers, representing 23% of global GDP
The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU
The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China
With Trump in the White House the UK’s strongest natural allies are France, Germany and our other West European neighbours
Tariff-free trade within the EU
The abolition of non-tariff barriers (quotas, subsidies, administrative rules etc.) among members
Participation in free trade agreements with Japan and Canada as an EU member
The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services
The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services
Cheaper food and alcohol imports from continental Europe
As a member of the EU the UK maintains a say in the shaping of the rules governing its trade with its European partners
3.1 million jobs in the UK are directly linked to exports to the EU
Free movement of labour has helped UK firms plug skills gaps (translators, doctors, plumbers)
Free movement of labour has helped address shortages of unskilled workers (fruit picking, catering)
The Single Market has brought the best continental footballers to the Premier League
The EU accounts for 47% of the UK’s stock of inward Foreign Direct Investment (FDI), worth over $1.2 trillion
Access to the EU Single Market has helped attract investment into the UK from outside the EU
No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market
Price transparency and removal of commissions on currency transactions across the Eurozone
FDI into the UK has effectively doubled since the creation of the EU Single Market
The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is around €7.3bn, or 0.4% of GDP (less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spending)
No time consuming border checks for travellers (apart from in the UK)
The City of London, as a global financial hub, has acted as a bridge between foreign business and the EU
British banks and insurance companies have been able to operate freely across the EU
Cornwall receives up to £750 million per year from the EU Social Fund (ESF)
Structural funding for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline (South Wales, Yorkshire)
Support for rural areas under the European Agricultural Fund for Regional Development (EAFRD)
EU funding for infrastructure projects in the UK including £122 million for the “Midlands engine” project
Financial support from the EU for over 3,000 small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the UK
EU funding for the British film industry
EU funding for British theatre, music and dance
EU funding for British sport, including football apprenticeships, tennis and rugby league
Glasgow (1990) and Liverpool (2008) benefitted from being European capitals of culture, stimulating their local economies
EU competition laws protect consumers by combatting monopolistic business practices
Strict controls on the operations of Multinational Corporations (MNCs) in the EU
Human Rights protected under the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
The death penalty can never be reintroduced as it is incompatible with EU membership
Minority languages such as Welsh and Irish are recognized and protected under EU law
The right to reside in any EU member state
The freedom to work in 28 countries without visa and immigration restrictions
The mutual recognition of professional qualifications has facilitated the free movement of engineers, teachers and doctors across the EU
The mutual recognition of educational diplomas
The Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR) has standardized assessment of language proficiency across the EU
The freedom to study in 28 countries (many EU universities teach courses in English and charge lower fees than in the UK)
The Erasmus programme of university exchanges (benefitting 16000 UK students a year)
The freedom to set up a business in 28 countries
The ability to retire in any member state
Pension transferability
The right to vote in local and European Parliamentary elections if resident in any member state
EU laws making it easier for British people to buy property on the continent
The right to receive emergency healthcare in any member state (EHIC card)
Consular protection from any EU embassy outside the EU
The EU has played a leading role in combatting global warming (Paris 2015 climate change conference)
Common EU greenhouse gas emissions targets (19% reduction from 1990 to 2015)
Improvements in air quality (significant reductions in sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides) as a result of EU legislation
Reductions in sewage emissions
Improvements in the quality of beaches and bathing water
EU standards on the quality of drinking water
Restrictions on landfill dumping
EU targets for recycling
Common EU regulations on the transportation and disposal of toxic waste
The implementation of EU policies to reduce noise pollution in urban areas
EU policies have stimulated offshore wind farms
Strict safety standards for cars, buses and trucks
Protection of endangered species and habitats (EU Natura 2000 network)
Strict ban on animal testing in the cosmetics industry
Membership of the European Medicines Agency (EMA) which monitors the quality and safety of medicines (until recently located in London)
13% of EU budget earmarked for scientific research and innovation
The UK receives £730 million a year in EU funding for research
EU funding for UK universities
Cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy as a member of Euratom
Minimum paid annual leave and time off work (Working Time Directive)
Equal pay between men and women enshrined in European law since 1957
The right to work no more than 48 hours a week without paid overtime
Minimum guaranteed maternity leave of 14 weeks for pregnant women
Rights to a minimum 18 weeks of parental leave after child birth
EU anti-discrimination laws governing age, religion and sexual orientation
EU rules governing health and safety at work
The rights to collective bargaining and trade union membership are enshrined in EU employment law
The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area
Since 1985 the UK has received a budget rebate equivalent to 66% of its net contribution to the EU budget
EU cross-country coordination offers greater protection from terrorists, pedophiles, people traffickers and cyber-crime
The European common arrest warrant
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection
EU consumer protection laws concerning transparency and product guarantees of quality and safety
Improved food labeling
A ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives
Cheaper air travel due to EU competition laws
Common EU air passenger rights
Deregulation of the European energy market has increased consumer choice and lowered prices
Mutual recognition of the common European driving license
The introduction of the European pet passport
The abolition of mobile telephone roaming charges
The EU acts as a guarantor of the Irish Good Friday Agreement
A frictionless Irish border
The EU acts as a guarantor of the special status of Gibraltar
The EU helped support and maintain democracy in Spain, Portugal and Greece from the 1970s and these countries have become major destinations for British tourists
EU membership has helped facilitate intercultural dialogue


I look forward to the Brexiteers answer to every single one of those points.

That list has more fillers than Katy Price.

[Alikado]

In his loooooooong C&P, Said states:


The EU may have 13,000 common customs tariffs for non-EU countries, but I'm sure that if Britain leaves without a deal not all of the items would apply to exports to Britain.

Nor is the EU unique in having protectionist policies. There are very few countries (I can't think of any) with tariff free/reduced tariffs on imports that will undercut the the sales of the same product produced domestically. It would benefit consumers, but it would devastate domestic business.

I know that Leavers are fond of quoting the savings that could be realised from a low or zero tariff economy. However, using the agricultural/food sector as an example, farmers would demand that they be afforded the same protection that the EU common customs tariffs give them. The alternative is to cease farming in the UK and import all of your food. Like that's going to happen!

All Trade Deals are protectionist, if we did away with Tariffs that would only be on stuff we Import, how would all the lost revenue be made up - 10p on Income Tax.
Countries we export to would still be charging the tariff making our exports uncompetitive and costing jobs leading to more lost revenue for the Chancellor - another few p on Income Tax.

[Toodles McGinty]

That list has more fillers than Katy Price.

Of course you are entitled to have an opinion on any of those points.

My point was that 'Said' wrote:

Whereas those who claim that they want to Remain in the EU, still cannot give any strong reasons for doing so

There are pro-remain sites all over giving many reasons. 'Said' was suggesting that remain voters didn't know why they wanted to stay in the EU. IMO maintaining the status quo was sufficient reason. But the onus, surely, was on the Leave campaign to offer 'strong reasons'.

Not the lies plastered on the side of a bus.