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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    I have no inclination whatever to write an encyclopedia,



    Good. Encyclopedias are books of facts so on that basis you're not qualified to write one.

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  4. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PENTHOUSEJOE View Post
    Didn’t most people vote to leave because of the mass immigration alone. Then every hurdle that the average person would not of thought about got put in the way. Now the country is in turmoil. At least if we do leave many other countries are watching the outcome. What is the future who knows. Hope it’s to our good. The eu don’t want us to leave.
    Actually, immigration fell quite low in the list of reasons. Of far greater importance was our fishing industry, high unemployment, the UK falling way behind in technology, lack of fairness of funding to our own private farmers, while favouring the foreign investment farmers, protectionalism of certain member countries, high tariffs, unwilling to discuss policies with the UK MP's, and greater interference in people's personal lives. But there was a huge number of other reasons why it is necessary and far more beneficial for us to leave the EU.

  5. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by salus.populi View Post
    Good. Encyclopedias are books of facts so on that basis you're not qualified to write one.

    Damn! You post your comment as if you know my qualifications? How is that - I have never stated them on here to anyone. On the topic of the EU, I have studied it for many years, and there will always be those who know more than I do - so just as Brexit was, an encyclopedia on the topic - would have to be a collective pursuit.

  6. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    It also means that those same people CAN be shipped back if they have no means of support, it is not and has never been intended to provide free food and shelter for benefit claimants, we are our own worst enemy, we allow the gangmasters to ship people in on zero hour contracts those people then claim to be working even when their income will not support them, but in order to keep employers sweet a blind eye is turned to the obvious.

    This our own fault, do you even faintly believe that stopping free movement from the EU will stop those employers from bringing in the cheapest/disposable labour they can find and of course in the government view, the more Brits forced onto poverty pay the better, looks good on the unemployment figures, doesn't matter that these workers can't afford to live.
    Not once did I mention benefits.

    EU migrants can live with friends or family.
    A UK address is all they need to live in poverty in the UK.

  7. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    You will not lose your right to travel to Europe. All countries rely heavily on tourism. There may be different rules at the borders if there has been no deal agreed. Ensure that you have at least nine months left before your passport expires and length of stay would depend on any visa's issued by each country.
    You are wrong mate, I will have NO RIGHTS AT ALL to enter the EU after we leave.....I may however be let in for a holiday at the EU's discretion, after shelling out £6 per person for temporary EU visa applications!

    And btw, I'll also need to get an International Driving License - and be wise to shell out for comprehensive personal health insurance, to avoid massive healthcare bills should we have an accident/fall seriously ill on holiday....I.e a whole bunch of extra paperwork and expense that is not presently required!
    On Yer Bike!

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  8. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Damn! You post your comment as if you know my qualifications? How is that - I have never stated them on here to anyone. .
    I based my comment on the fact that you repeatedly state things that are not true on many subjects even after the truth has been pointed out to you.

  9. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamble View Post
    Ending free movement clinches all but one reason because it will encompass so much change for good.

    The other reason-the Irish Border will be the EU's problem should we leave with a no deal Brexit.

    Everything else including your list are possibilities good and bad no one can predict fully.
    Looking at the EU failures and other member state problems I still would rather leave with no deal than remain.
    I'm not a great fan of complete freedom of movement myself, but I think if you ask an expert, it has brought more positives than negatives. How are we going to get farm workers, for example, if we stop people coming into the country who are wiling to do the work? Are you really bothered by Polish, French, Italians, etc, or is it the prospect of caravans of economic migrants and Muslims, such as we saw in Europe in 2015? Which, incidentally, I reckon tipped the scales between 51.9% and 48.1%. Also, trade deals with other parts of the world will inevitably include immigration to this country. You don't think a deal with India, for example, wouldn't include immigration?

    As far as the Irish border is concerned, no matter if you see it as an EU problem, the consequences of breaking the Good Friday agreement will land at our feet. I've no doubt those caches of arms still exist. The groups willing to plant explosives on British and Irish soil still operate, as seen with the recent car bombs.

    The items on that list concerning WTO rules are not possibilities. They are rules. Those rules aren't going to change for us. Whatever dreams of sunlit uplands that Brexiteers might have, the harsh reality is that WTO rules will be economically damaging. We cannot be better off trading under those rules. We can eventually forge trade deals with faraway places, meaning those goods will cost more and be of lower quality. Or we can try and make a deal with our closest neighbours, which is the EU as one body, not France, or Italy etc. Economically, Brexit is a losing situation.

  10. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    I'm not a great fan of complete freedom of movement myself, but I think if you ask an expert, it has brought more positives than negatives. How are we going to get farm workers, for example, if we stop people coming into the country who are wiling to do the work? Are you really bothered by Polish, French, Italians, etc, or is it the prospect of caravans of economic migrants and Muslims, such as we saw in Europe in 2015? Which, incidentally, I reckon tipped the scales between 51.9% and 48.1%. Also, trade deals with other parts of the world will inevitably include immigration to this country. You don't think a deal with India, for example, wouldn't include immigration?

    As far as the Irish border is concerned, no matter if you see it as an EU problem, the consequences of breaking the Good Friday agreement will land at our feet. I've no doubt those caches of arms still exist. The groups willing to plant explosives on British and Irish soil still operate, as seen with the recent car bombs.

    The items on that list concerning WTO rules are not possibilities. They are rules. Those rules aren't going to change for us. Whatever dreams of sunlit uplands that Brexiteers might have, the harsh reality is that WTO rules will be economically damaging. We cannot be better off trading under those rules. We can eventually forge trade deals with faraway places, meaning those goods will cost more and be of lower quality. Or we can try and make a deal with our closest neighbours, which is the EU as one body, not France, or Italy etc. Economically, Brexit is a losing situation.
    Ending free movement just means recording those who come in and out of the UK from Europe.

    I don't agree with you on Ireland or trade.
    We just have to wait and see what happens right up to the crunch date
    and not be too spooked by the press.

  11. #54
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    The countries richest man arch Brexiteer Jim Ratcliffe has now jumped ship and is moving all his loot to Monaco.

  12. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    The countries richest man arch Brexiteer Jim Ratcliffe has now jumped ship and is moving all his loot to Monaco.
    Typical fat-cat brexiter. Kicks a hole in the side of the ship - then disembarks before it sinks.

    On thing is for sure, he wont be going via FlyBMI!
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  13. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamble View Post
    We just have to wait and see what happens right up to the crunch date
    and not be too spooked by the press.
    That's true. The press have no more clue than you or I.

    As I see it, the best case scenario, other than I wake up to find it's a bizarre dream, is we do a reasonable deal with the EU. I find that in itself annoying, as it means we'll still be paying in, but have no say whatsoever.

    Worst case is crashing out without a deal. No transition period. Complete disruption of basically everything from day 1. As I've said several times, I understand why some people want to leave the EU. I don't think that they want the chaos that 'No Deal' will bring.

    It strikes me that the ERG are holding too many cards. Their way or the Tory party splits. Not a good situation for anyone, unless you're super-rich.

  14. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    You are wrong mate, I will have NO RIGHTS AT ALL to enter the EU after we leave.....I may however be let in for a holiday at the EU's discretion, after shelling out £6 per person for temporary EU visa applications!

    And btw, I'll also need to get an International Driving License - and be wise to shell out for comprehensive personal health insurance, to avoid massive healthcare bills should we have an accident/fall seriously ill on holiday....I.e a whole bunch of extra paperwork and expense that is not presently required!
    There are such bigger issues than having to pay a few quid for a visa or for data roaming. There are many deep political and economic issues at play on either side, and it annoys me when people trivialise it by talking about an extra tenner on a £1000 holiday.

  15. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Actually, immigration fell quite low in the list of reasons. .
    That's not at all what the research says - taking back control of 1) immigration and 2) laws were the dominant reasons.

    http://csi.nuff.ox.ac.uk/?p=1153

  16. #59
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    After the BREXIT talks over the last 2 years, and more recently watching the Yellow Vest riots in France, Germany announcing they are seriously close to a recession, Spains trouble with Catalonia wanting to separate, and Italy's financial struggles. It appears that the majority of the EU's big hitters are struggling financially, ourselves included. If we leave or not, I can see the break up of the European Union within my lifetime, because its obviously not working financially.

    I do wonder what would actually happen if we left in a hard Brexit. All we have at the minute is speculation, nobody actually knows for certain exactly what will happen. Since the referendum, I have worked for 2 different European businesses, a French company, and now a Finnish company, and both have said they make too much money in the Uk to cease trading here, and I think that applies to all EU companies who operate in the UK. In the same respect that we import more than we export with the EU, they won't just cut us off, because we buy so much from the EU they would actually be worse off. For instance, companies like BMW, Audi and Mercedes, will not stop selling cars in the UK.

    From what I have read, the EU has paid big manufacturing companies based in the UK, to move their manufacturing plants to Eastern European countries, to boost the economy in those poorer countries, but in doing so, Britain has been left with minimal manufacturing, and we have always gotten the short end of the stick, look at the fishing rights around the Uk for example.

    I believe that if we do leave hard, and we prosper, which I honestly believe we will, we cant just roll over and die so to speak, the countries with a large nationalist following, especially France and Italy will follow suit within 3 years, and both will have referendums and leave, because the UK will do it successfully, and create a positive model.

    I know for a fact that I would rather be outside doing my own thing with everyone else, than left in the hallway while other countries decided things that could impact my own country, while I listen through the door.

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  18. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion102 View Post
    There are such bigger issues than having to pay a few quid for a visa or for data roaming. There are many deep political and economic issues at play on either side, and it annoys me when people trivialise it by talking about an extra tenner on a £1000 holiday.
    It's rather more than a tenner for us....Party of four EU visas £6 x 4 = £24. And a fortnights full healthcare insurance for us ain't going to be cheap either. We'll be lucky to get away without losing total £100 every time we go, imo.

    But hols are a side issue, compared to loss of right to retire/open a small business near the town of Carcassonne (France) on the Canal du Midi. I went 2 years ago last Summer to research possibilities, liked what I saw etc....Now thanks to Brexit, all that looks like becoming just a pipedream!
    On Yer Bike!

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