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No 2nd referendum..
...but Brexit to be delayed for at least another 3 months. Financial suicide according to several experts a few weeks ago.
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Originally Posted by bambi275
...but Brexit to be delayed for at least another 3 months. Financial suicide according to several experts a few weeks ago.
It's not quite that simple! May will only request a 3 month delay if members back a deal by next Wednesday. What deal? Hers or another deal they can whip up in the next 5 days? What are the chances of that happening?
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Originally Posted by seivad
It's not quite that simple! May will only request a 3 month delay if members back a deal by next Wednesday. What deal? Hers or another deal they can whip up in the next 5 days? What are the chances of that happening?
..and even then the EU could tell us to leave on 29th ready or not.
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Any extension needs all 27 members to agree. Nigel will be out canvassing some of them
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Originally Posted by bambi275
..and even then the EU could tell us to leave on 29th ready or not.
In law you leave the EU on March 29th, any amendments voted in by Parliament don't change this date. It can only be changed by the 27 remaining EU countries unanimously granting an extension to Article 50.
They wouldn't give you a short extension if you didn't have a plan that could be executed within such a short time span. I don't think May's plan will pass the house next Wednesday. So you may end up requesting a long extension, with another plan. Although how you'll ever get so many members with differing opinions to agree on anything is beyond me. The atmosphere is toxic.Talk about the never ending Brexit!
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Originally Posted by bambi275
..and even then the EU could tell us to leave on 29th ready or not.
Or we could just scrap the whole damn thing, after wasting years of time and millions possibly billions of pounds.
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Originally Posted by bambi275
...but Brexit to be delayed for at least another 3 months. Financial suicide according to several experts a few weeks ago.
Any such delay would cause numerous problems, not to mention that even after a delay there is no promise of an agreement being reached. We should state that we want a Free Trade Agreement, which would be the best option. The EU is refusing to discuss the matter any further.
"We now know there are 110 Conservative Eurosceptics – and 8 Remain Conservatives – prepared to defy a 3 line whip against a bad deal and bad policy towards Brexit. We know there are 71 Labour MPs who defy their leader by demanding a second referendum. Mrs May would be unwise to do a deal with them, the SNP and Lib Dems for a second referendum, as between them they would be fewer MPs than the 110 plus the 10 DUP. There would also be more Conservative MPs who strongly rule out a second referendum. " John Redwood.
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Originally Posted by steve
Any extension needs all 27 members to agree. Nigel will be out canvassing some of them
Several Tory MPs have already been to Poland and the odious Arron Banks is in Italy doing just that.
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Originally Posted by silver fox
Or we could just scrap the whole damn thing, after wasting years of time and millions possibly billions of pounds.
We're screwed whatever happens.
A delay sees us taking part in EU elections meaning the EU parliament becomes swamped with right wing eurosceptic politicians. We'll be seen as poisoning the EU from the inside.
Revocation of article 50 means brexiteer parties will sweep up in UK elections.
Leaving means we're ****ed whether with a deal or without.
All part of the Putin backed right wing coup.
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Originally Posted by said
Any such delay would cause numerous problems,
May will only request a 3 month extension if Parliament passes her withdrawal deal next Wednesday.
?not to mention that even after a delay there is no promise of an agreement being reached. We should state that we want a Free Trade Agreement, which would be the best option. The EU is refusing to discuss the matter any further.
Sigh.... discussions/negotiations on your future relationship, which includes trade agreements, takes place after the withdrawal deal is agreed.
And you're the man who has researched all there is to know about BREXIT? Jeeze
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There is no time to come to an agreement now before the 29th March. Any further delays will seriously affect all businesses and create more uncertainty in the trade market. If Parliament cannot come to any agreement by the 29th March we should leave without one - and as you say discuss the FTA after. We would still be trading, if necessary with the EU under the rules of the WTO.
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Originally Posted by salus.populi
We're screwed whatever happens.
A delay sees us taking part in EU elections meaning the EU parliament becomes swamped with right wing eurosceptic politicians. We'll be seen as poisoning the EU from the inside.
Revocation of article 50 means brexiteer parties will sweep up in UK elections.
Leaving means we're ****ed whether with a deal or without.
All part of the Putin backed right wing coup.
If Putin wanted to ruin the EU for any reason - then all he would have had to do was to let Russia join it and employ internal destruction. Far more efficient.
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Originally Posted by said
There is no time to come to an agreement now before the 29th March. Any further delays will seriously affect all businesses and create more uncertainty in the trade market. If Parliament cannot come to any agreement by the 29th March we should leave without one - and as you say discuss the FTA after. We would still be trading, if necessary with the EU under the rules of the WTO.
You continually bring up WTO rules as if this is some sort of panacea, have you any idea just what WTO rules are? just one or two to give you thought, every finished vehicle exported from the UK to the EU will attract a 10% tariff, they will sell well in Europe???????????? seeing that most if not all our motor manufacturers have production links within the EU, that is major car production finished in the UK.
Agricultural products, the government has already proposed zero tariffs on imported agri products, that means to everyone, however our agri products will hit tariffs on any exports, explain that to hill farmers with just sheep as a crop, salad growers in the UK will be overjoyed by this I've no doubt, that's just for starters.
WTO rules are very clear, designed to stop unfair discriminatory tariffs and product dumping, however if we grant zero tariffs to a product, that same tariff for that product must be granted to all WTO members.
Just about everything we currently send into the EU will attract a tariff under WTO rules, some quite small, but dairy products will take a hit of 35.6%, cheese anyone?
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Originally Posted by said
There is no time to come to an agreement now before the 29th March. Any further delays will seriously affect all businesses and create more uncertainty in the trade market. If Parliament cannot come to any agreement by the 29th March we should leave without one
Parliament voted 321 to 278 in favour of a deal against leaving the EU with no deal on March 29th, which is why May will request a short extension of Article 50. Earlier on, another unexpected motion was tabled rejecting leaving without a deal under any circumstances. It passed 312-308.
You may wish to leave without a deal, but it's clear that the majority in Parliament do not. Although the amendments are not legally binding, May is not ignoring them. If, when she presents her withdrawal bill for the 3rd time, Parliament rejects it, she will probably have to request a much longer extension of Article 50.
- and as you say discuss the FTA after. We would still be trading, if necessary with the EU under the rules of the WTO.
Trade discussions were to take place during the transition period. If you leave without a deal, there won't be a transition period.
SF has explained, again, what WTO terms mean. I've attempted to explain them to you many times also... to no avail.
The government's elimination of tariffs on so many products will be devastating to many domestic businesses. And what a non-incentive for countries to negotiate FTAs with the UK. Why bother? You can export to the UK tariff free, and charge tariffs on UK exports to your country. Their exports are more competitively priced in your country. Your exports to their country won't be. What a bodge job!
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Originally Posted by silver fox
Or we could just scrap the whole damn thing, after wasting years of time and millions possibly billions of pounds.
Read somewhere, can't recall where now that the cost so far was 9 billion pounds and counting.
My prediction and hope TBH is that it's all going to end. There won't be a Brexit as they can't agree on what Brexit they want.
That too will come with consequences and God knows who will be in government to try sort that out. We have done an amazing job of dividing the nation right down the middle. Irrelevant of political preference, race, gender or age. Farage and Cameron have a lot to answer too.
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