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Originally Posted by said
One really must look at the broader picture of the issues with the EU. It is all very well stating that ' we still have our currency, parliament, election process, our own laws and courts...' etc., how long do you think that would be for? The EU was unwilling to listen to ANY of our MP's who tried to elicit better deals for the UK and were totally ignored by the EU commission. Look at how the EU is behaving over the UK wanting to leave - what does this tell you about the organisation? If it was so strong, so good, it would not cause the EU any problem for the UK to leave - it would just agree and that would be that. How on earth did the UK do trade before the EU? History always repeats itself!
Originally Posted by libraryguy
I think you'll find your figures are incorrect.
The total electorate (as of June 2016) was 46,500,001
Out of the total electorate:-
37.44% (17,410,742) voted to Leave
34.71% (16,141,241) voted to Remain
00.06% (25,359) were invalid or blank votes
27.79% (12,922,659) exercised their right not to cast a vote
.
So however you try to massage the figures in your favour, you can't. Leave won!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_U...hip_referendum
Can we just Leave please
My mistake sorry, read the number 46,500,001 as the 72.2% of the electorate who voted, not trying to massage figures, merely trying to show this was not the resounding leave vote that Brexiteers shout about, then destroyed my own argument with my own errors.
Still believe that far too many have no idea of the total implications of just leaving, see May is resorting to blackmail to get her deal through at the third shot, yet Brexiteers demand that one vote with a slender majority should determine the future of the entire country for ever.
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The whole episode of Brexit is a total embarrassment to our country . We have a government which doesn't know which to turn next And yes I voted Conservative at the last general election. We have become laughing stock in the eyes of the world , I've given up on May as our PM and the sooner she's gone the better. The people voted to "Leave" that being the case there should be another referendum. And May should resign Now .and in answer to the Thread Title , yes we should be worried , worried about trade , jobs , our borders , and the future of our country the country I and many others served , what happening to that country, where is the damned leadership, leadership for which we have been the envy of the world and I'm not just talking the government what about HM opposition led by a certain mr Corbyn who was in bed with IRA leaders when our troops were putting thier lives on the line in the 70s/80s.
We need Strong leadership to get us through Brexit .
Last edited by grassroots; 17/03/2019 at 09:49 AM.
REST IN PEACE THE 96.
Y.N.W.A.
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Originally Posted by grassroots
there should be another referendum. And May should resign Now .and in answer to the Thread Title , yes we should be worried , worried about trade , jobs , our borders , and the future of our country
Agree 100% that it should be put back to the people for the final say.....Why? Because:
1) We're all a lot wiser now re what Brexit will mean for the UK.
2) Oldies who voted leave are not all still with us.
3) Many too young to vote last time are now eligible.
4) We're in a mess and need more time to sort ourselves out.
5) We're most likely to gain that breathing space, by asking for time to allow public to confirm/reject the wish to leave.
STOP BREXIT!
On Yer Bike!
www.20splentyforus.co.uk
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Originally Posted by Little Londoner
From what I have read the EU have told May they will only extend the exit date IF there is another referendum.
Conditions for a long extension to the Article 50 exit date will include an option of a second referendum.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/m...r-brexit-delay
If May's deal is passed when it's presented for the 3rd time on Wednesday, she will request a short extension to cover the time it will take for the legislation to pass the deal into UK law.
The EU is reluctant to grant the UK a long extension without seeing a UK plan on what it intends to achieve during that time. They've watched the UK fumble through 2 years of negotiations, culminating in a deal that neither the Tories or the opposition want. Granting a long extension that will only be wasted on the same kind of $h** show, with the same fractured Parliament is a total waste of time and taxpayers' money.
So WHO is running this Country. The vote was LEAVE and she should tell them to take a running jump OR has this absolute carnage been the plan all along to keep us in, which will be very foolish of May to lead us into a cul-de-sac and fail to deliver the Peoples wishes.
Blaming the EU for the Tory's inability to devise a withdrawal deal that their own party would pass, really?
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Originally Posted by seivad
Conditions for a long extension to the Article 50 exit date will include an option of a second referendum.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/m...r-brexit-delay
If May's deal is passed when it's presented for the 3rd time on Wednesday, she will request a short extension to cover the time it will take for the legislation to pass the deal into UK law.
The EU is reluctant to grant the UK a long extension without seeing a UK plan on what it intends to achieve during that time. They've watched the UK fumble through 2 years of negotiations, culminating in a deal that neither the Tories or the opposition want. Granting a long extension that will only be wasted on the same kind of $h** show, with the same fractured Parliament is a total waste of time and taxpayers' money.
Blaming the EU for the Tory's inability to devise a withdrawal deal that their own party would pass, really?
The Tories only gave us a referendum to appease the Euro sceptics in their Party, Cameron smugly thought that the vote would easily be remain. It didn't take him and Osborne long to jump ship when their cunning plan failed miserably. Who comes in May a remainer and Hammond a remainer then to keep the leavers onside their rhetoric was all about leave, DID THEY REALLY CHANGE THEIR MINDS??
They are in power trying to organise something they NEVER wanted to do in the first place. So is it not possible, with the backing of the Dictators in Brussels/Strasbourg or wherever they decide the Parliament is going to be next, that a hash has been made of the WHOLE process to make it look like they are doing their utmost??
Like rats in a sack they squabble and fight and NOTHING positive on the wish of the people gets done.
Oh and just to put the rats in a sack into perspective the DUP (Democratic???) want a further cash bribe to back May's bad deal.
Last edited by Little Londoner; 17/03/2019 at 11:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by Little Londoner
The Tories only gave us a referendum to appease the Euro sceptics in their Party, Cameron smugly thought that the vote would easily be remain. It didn't take him and Osborne long to jump ship when their cunning plan failed miserably. Who comes in May a remainer and Hammond a remainer then to keep the leavers onside their rhetoric was all about leave, DID THEY REALLY CHANGE THEIR MINDS??
They are in power trying to organise something they NEVER wanted to do in the first place. So is it not possible, with the backing of the Dictators in Brussels/Strasbourg or wherever they decide the Parliament is going to be next, that a hash has been made of the WHOLE process to make it look like they are doing their utmost??
Like rats in a sack they squabble and fight and NOTHING positive on the wish of the people gets done.
Oh and just to put the rats in a sack into perspective the DUP (Democratic???) want a further cash bribe to back May's bad deal.
It wasn't to appease the Tory Eurosceptics it was to attempt to kill off UKIP once and for all.
Don't forget that there have been 3 BREXIT Ministers negotiating over the last 2 years all Leavers.
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Originally Posted by Little Londoner
Oh and just to put the rats in a sack into perspective the DUP (Democratic???) want a further cash bribe to back May's bad deal.
Read this. I love the reference to Mogg as the "haunted Victorian apparition"
https://newsthump.com/2019/03/12/nat...-290k-of-them/
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Agree 100% that it should be put back to the people for the final say.....Why? Because:
1) We're all a lot wiser now re what Brexit will mean for the UK.
2) Oldies who voted leave are not all still with us.
3) Many too young to vote last time are now eligible.
4) We're in a mess and need more time to sort ourselves out.
5) We're most likely to gain that breathing space, by asking for time to allow public to confirm/reject the wish to leave.
STOP BREXIT!
1) The vote was taken in 2016 with the available info at the time.
2) Correct - but there have also been younger people who have died
3) In 2016 the voting age was, and still is 18. There will still be those under 18 if we have another vote.
4) If you want a "Final Say" vote then the two options should be Leave with a Deal or No Deal. We voted to Leave. If you have three options Remain, Leave with a Deal, Leave - No Deal - you purposely split the Leave vote so weighting the result in Remain's favour.
You cannot put a vote back to the people, until the result of the first vote has been enacted.
A People's Vote = Losers Vote who can't accept the result of the 2016 vote.
LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!!
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Originally Posted by libraryguy
If you have three options Remain, Leave with a Deal, Leave - No Deal - you purposely split the Leave vote so weighting the result in Remain's favour.
Looking at that another way, you could say the choice of three actually gives the government a clearer view of what the public actually want. In the referendum, there was no way of discerning how Leave voters wanted to exit Europe. There are people who have misgivings about the EU, but don't want the full on jump-off-a-cliff suicidal crashing out of the 'no-deal' scenario. Perhaps some Leave voters would still like a trade deal with the EU, or a solution to the Northern Ireland problem that doesn't involve semtex.
By saying the result would be weighed in the favour of Remain, seems to indicate that all of the Leave side isn't so racist, frothing-at-the-mouth gammon flavoured as some would like to have them painted. It would seem that some Brexiteers would like a considered Brexit. Why shouldn't those people have a voice? How can you trot out the usual 'mockery of democracy' accusations, then not let a certain section of the electorate have a say?
Or is it a fear that if all voices are heard, all opinions are aired, then given a real choice, and given the narrow margin of the referendum, the majority of the electorate don't want the $h!tshow that Farage and the ERG are offering?
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Originally Posted by libraryguy
1) The vote was taken in 2016 with the available info at the time.
2) Correct - but there have also been younger people who have died
3) In 2016 the voting age was, and still is 18. There will still be those under 18 if we have another vote.
4) If you want a "Final Say" vote then the two options should be Leave with a Deal or No Deal. We voted to Leave. If you have three options Remain, Leave with a Deal, Leave - No Deal - you purposely split the Leave vote so weighting the result in Remain's favour.
You cannot put a vote back to the people, until the result of the first vote has been enacted.
A People's Vote = Losers Vote who can't accept the result of the 2016 vote.
LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!!
The way round that is use the transferable vote so you would vote for Leave or Remain and both options could have secondary options.
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Originally Posted by seivad
What a Country this is being held to ransom by members of a club we do not wish to be in and a handful of religious bigots. My mate has family in Canada and they regularly wet themselves laughing at what the people of this Country put up with.
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Don't you people watch the Eurovision Song Contest?
EU politics is just as weird.
Except if weird was offended it would withdraw its diplomat.
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Originally Posted by grassroots
The whole episode of Brexit is a total embarrassment to our country . We have a government which doesn't know which to turn next And yes I voted Conservative at the last general election. We have become laughing stock in the eyes of the world , I've given up on May as our PM and the sooner she's gone the better. The people voted to "Leave" that being the case there should be another referendum. And May should resign Now .and in answer to the Thread Title , yes we should be worried , worried about trade , jobs , our borders , and the future of our country the country I and many others served , what happening to that country, where is the damned leadership, leadership for which we have been the envy of the world and I'm not just talking the government what about HM opposition led by a certain mr Corbyn who was in bed with IRA leaders when our troops were putting thier lives on the line in the 70s/80s.
We need Strong leadership to get us through Brexit .
I am more to the left of the political spectrum than yourself, but I agree with what you say, ERG, UKIP, Momentum are not the voice of this country nor it's people, yet seem to have politicians twitchy over not upsetting these groups.
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Originally Posted by libraryguy
1) The vote was taken in 2016 with the available info at the time.
2) Correct - but there have also been younger people who have died
3) In 2016 the voting age was, and still is 18. There will still be those under 18 if we have another vote.
4) If you want a "Final Say" vote then the two options should be Leave with a Deal or No Deal. We voted to Leave. If you have three options Remain, Leave with a Deal, Leave - No Deal - you purposely split the Leave vote so weighting the result in Remain's favour.
You cannot put a vote back to the people, until the result of the first vote has been enacted.
A People's Vote = Losers Vote who can't accept the result of the 2016 vote.
LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!!
The vote was taken with the unrefined lies available at the time, nothing regarding the actual workings and implications of Brexit.
As far as age of voters is concerned, obviously older voters will drop off the register and young voters will come on, but that will always be the case at any time.
Enact the first vote, then there will be no further vote as all options will be dead from that point on, there will be no going back from Brexit, most certainly not under the terms we currently have.
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Originally Posted by silver fox
The vote was taken with the unrefined lies available at the time, nothing regarding the actual workings and implications of Brexit.
As far as age of voters is concerned, obviously older voters will drop off the register and young voters will come on, but that will always be the case at any time.
Enact the first vote, then there will be no further vote as all options will be dead from that point on, there will be no going back from Brexit, most certainly not under the terms we currently have.
The vote was taken at the time with the infomration from both sides as it was then. There was no option of what type of Leave we wanted. Everything is always better with hindsight. Which links up with your second point...
Year on year people die at whatever age. Taking the two points together, does that mean we should have a General Election every single year, as we'll have more information about the party in government and there will be a different set of voters?
Which ties into your last comment - under parliamentary rules and the fixed term parliaments act, elections are held every five years (other circumstances not prevailing). We were ALL told that the referendum would be a once in a generation vote - no re-run, certainly not after two and a half years.
I have one nine letter word that destroys every single argument the sore losers try and use - Democracy!
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