Brexit. Should we be worried?

[said]

As for this bit of your statement "....

your product or service to and this is why we have rules and regulations in society and which have evolved over centuries to give safety and order in our lives...."

People in the UK now have far more allergies than ever before, so why is that?

"The Anaphylaxis Campaign spoke with Metro.co.uk over email and told us: ‘The incidence of allergies has increased dramatically in the UK in recent years and is still rising. Recent studies put the rise as approximately three-fold in the last 20 years, giving the UK one of the highest rates of allergic disease in the world.’ "

"Millions of car owners are being warned that four-star petrol will be taken off the forecourts in the year 2000.The move is designed to bring the UK into line with a European directive on fuel quality" BBc News.
"

However, the use of catalytic converters introduces many problems. A converter will work only when it is hot, often allowing toxic gases through when a car's engine is still cold, or during extended idling. This includes chemical additives called aromatics — volatile organic compounds which include benzene, toluene (methyl-benzene), dimethylbenzene, xylene and mesitylene (1,3,5 triethyl-benzene) — which replace the lubricant and anti-detonation properties of lead." Green Left.
Safe goods you say: "In the last two years, cases of allergic eczema by exposure to this preservative have increased dramatically, research has found.The chemical in question, called Methylisothiazolinone (MI) is a common preservative used in toiletries including moist wipes, cleansers, shower gels, soaps, deodorants, shaving foams and sunscreens but also dishwashing liquids, mascaras and hair products." Healthista.
So what protection are you referring to?
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[said]

The vote was taken with the unrefined lies available at the time, nothing regarding the actual workings and implications of Brexit.

As far as age of voters is concerned, obviously older voters will drop off the register and young voters will come on, but that will always be the case at any time.

Enact the first vote, then there will be no further vote as all options will be dead from that point on, there will be no going back from Brexit, most certainly not under the terms we currently have.

Lies? You mean like there will be armageddon if the UK leaves the EU, aliens will attack, there will be no terrorist protection, etc.,etc.,
This claim that Brexit campaigners lied was made by the media!
There were NO lies told by Brexit supporters - Brexit people had had a long time to prepare their arguments, there was no reason to lie as they had the stronger hand.
There were no lies - but there were a number of people who knew everything there was to know of the EU and they would not listen in order to learn from those who had done their research. People who know everything never learn.
Another claim by the media was that it was only older people who voted Brexit! They were again wrong. The majority of University/College students voted for Brexit, it was only the Student Unions who wanted to Remain - supporters included young professionals, business people, the unemployed, even Polish immigrants were in support of it but could not vote and yes, of course older people - in fact all those who understood the situation and had their eyes open to what was happening all around them.
Considering the numbers that turned out to vote - the claim that voters were mostly elderly can be immediately disproved. The elderly people in the UK make up a far lower percentage than the 18 - 64 year olds according to the Government Statistics: 18% of the population are of 65 and over, and 60% are aged between 18 - 64. Applying those figures to the voting turnout - very quickly proves that the media were lying yet again!

[The PNP]

A People's Vote = Losers Vote who can't accept the result of the 2016 vote.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!!!

Clearly one of the 'I'm backing Brexit brigade', so I'm intrigued to know what you yourself hope to gain (if anything) from leaving...

If it's better healthcare (e.g. £350m for the NHS) consider what you're definitely losing - the right to healthcare across a vast area of the Continent.

If it's more job opportunities/higher pay, I can't see that happening either. Companies are more likely to close factories and relocate to within the EU, for continued access to EU markets.

Or maybe you're hoping the weather will improve, lol.....Only way I know of guaranteeing better weather, is to head South. By exercising our right as EU citizens to buy a nice little pad in France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc.

Imo, exiting the EU makes us all losers - leavers and remainers alike!



STOP BREXIT!

[said]

As far as I know everyone takes out travel insurance to cover for health care anywhere in the World - and they always have, EU or no EU.

All businesses in the UK will have less paper work and legislation to contend with and will have greater freedom to choose what they need to do. There will be more competition among trading companies to increase potential trade worldwide. For more competition there will need to be more technology incorporated and more efficiency leading to more employment.

This is what the EU is scared of. Why else would the EU target specifically all the countries - since the referendum - that have offered trade deals with the UK. The UK must not better Germany, hell no!

[silver fox]

Lies? You mean like there will be armageddon if the UK leaves the EU, aliens will attack, there will be no terrorist protection, etc.,etc.,
This claim that Brexit campaigners lied was made by the media!
There were NO lies told by Brexit supporters - Brexit people had had a long time to prepare their arguments, there was no reason to lie as they had the stronger hand.
There were no lies - but there were a number of people who knew everything there was to know of the EU and they would not listen in order to learn from those who had done their research. People who know everything never learn.
Another claim by the media was that it was only older people who voted Brexit! They were again wrong. The majority of University/College students voted for Brexit, it was only the Student Unions who wanted to Remain - supporters included young professionals, business people, the unemployed, even Polish immigrants were in support of it but could not vote and yes, of course older people - in fact all those who understood the situation and had their eyes open to what was happening all around them.
Considering the numbers that turned out to vote - the claim that voters were mostly elderly can be immediately disproved. The elderly people in the UK make up a far lower percentage than the 18 - 64 year olds according to the Government Statistics: 18% of the population are of 65 and over, and 60% are aged between 18 - 64. Applying those figures to the voting turnout - very quickly proves that the media were lying yet again!

Lies, yes lies, there was barely one word of truth in the Brexit campaign, the huge sums of money to be saved, LIE, trade would continue uninterrupted, LIE, control of our borders and immigration, LIE, we could trade with anyone with greater freedom, LIE, make our own rules and laws without reference to anyone else, LIE, the reality is that Brexit offered very little that we didn't already have, but with more disadvantages.

The campaign was fronted mainly by those with vested interest in personal wealth of the few to the cost of the majority, those wishing to be rid of tiresome regulations such as workers rights, financial controls etc, altogether a pretty unsavoury bunch, the EU isn't perfect by any means, but much better than an unlegislated free for all.

[libraryguy]

Clearly one of the 'I'm backing Brexit brigade', so I'm intrigued to know what you yourself hope to gain (if anything) from leaving...

If it's better healthcare (e.g. £350m for the NHS) consider what you're definitely losing - the right to healthcare across a vast area of the Continent.

If it's more job opportunities/higher pay, I can't see that happening either. Companies are more likely to close factories and relocate to within the EU, for continued access to EU markets.

Or maybe you're hoping the weather will improve, lol.....Only way I know of guaranteeing better weather, is to head South. By exercising our right as EU citizens to buy a nice little pad in France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc.

Imo, exiting the EU makes us all losers - leavers and remainers alike!



STOP BREXIT!

Actually, I'm CLEARLY one of the backing DEMOCRACY brigade.

What do I hope to gain... OK for a start I never truly believed the £350 million on the side of the bus. However, I do know we paid more in than we got out of it, so from that perspective, we'd be better off and able to use that money in the UK. Better it gaining "interest" in our bank than the EU.

Healthcare - you can buy travel insurance, can't you? You have to do it to go to elsewhere outside the EU, so what's the difference?

From a purely selfish point of view, my job prospects are little above zero.

And as for the weather - give me the British weather any day. Too much heat makes me ill, so I'm quite happy with the cool climate here with the odd spell of nice warm weather. And I find travelling very stressful.

I'm quite happy where I am thank you.

The French are not going to stop exporting wine & cheese and the Germans are not going to stop exporting cars.

You listen to project fear far too much. OK there may be a blip, but we're Great Britain and we always come good in the end.

[Alikado]

Healthcare - you can buy travel insurance, can't you? You have to do it to go to elsewhere outside the EU, so what's the difference?


The French are not going to stop exporting wine & cheese and the Germans are not going to stop exporting cars.

You listen to project fear far too much. OK there may be a blip, but we're Great Britain and we always come good in the end.

Travel Insurance rates will rise to cover what will not be covered in future.
The French & Germans will not stop exporting to us - Unfortunately, but our exports to them will attract tariffs possibly making them uncompetitive.
Perhaps we should all have listened to 'Project Fear' as more and more of it is becoming true.

[seivad]

This claim that Brexit campaigners lied was made by the media!
There were NO lies told by Brexit supporters - Brexit people had had a long time to prepare their arguments, there was no reason to lie as they had the stronger hand.
There were no lies - but there were a number of people who knew everything there was to know of the EU and they would not listen in order to learn from those who had done their research. People who know everything never learn.

I hope that you're not including yourself in the classification of "those who had done your research". 99% of everything you have posted in support of your choice has been disproved with a quick fact check.

Another claim by the media was that it was only older people who voted Brexit! They were again wrong.

No, you are wrong in your claim that the media reported that it was only older people who voted Brexit. The media reported that among the different age groups, people 65+ had the highest voter turnout.

The majority of University/College students voted for Brexit, it was only the Student Unions who wanted to Remain

Again, incorrect. 85% of eligible university students voted remain.

Considering the numbers that turned out to vote - the claim that voters were mostly elderly can be immediately disproved. The elderly people in the UK make up a far lower percentage than the 18 - 64 year olds according to the Government Statistics: 18% of the population are of 65 and over, and 60% are aged between 18 - 64. Applying those figures to the voting turnout - very quickly proves that the media were lying yet again!

The only thing that assertion proves, is that you don't have a clue!

As already pointed out, older voters had the highest level of turnout, not the highest number of voters.

Have you ever looked at the referendum results by age group/education level etc.? If you do, you will surely see that voting leave increases with the voter's age. From age 50+ the majority of votes are for leave.

[Toodles McGinty]

Considering the numbers that turned out to vote - the claim that voters were mostly elderly can be immediately disproved. The elderly people in the UK make up a far lower percentage than the 18 - 64 year olds according to the Government Statistics: 18% of the population are of 65 and over, and 60% are aged between 18 - 64. Applying those figures to the voting turnout - very quickly proves that the media were lying yet again!

Utter bull$h!t again. Do you just make things up in your head? Statistics, from basically any reliable sources, prove you wrong.

Sources:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-gender-uk/

https://www.opinium.co.uk/did-young-...eu-referendum/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39965925

On and on. Show me similar links that prove your theory.

"Millions of car owners are being warned that four-star petrol will be taken off the forecourts in the year 2000The move is designed to bring the UK into line with a European directive on fuel quality" BBc News.

The entire world has stopped using leaded petrol, not just the EU. The EU hasn't forced every country on the planet, except for 6 (basically backwards with dubious human rights records). But yeah, the EU has caused allergies. Just to save you some time, here's a list of the crap that the media has made up about the EU. It runs into hundreds, but just for reference, check it out before you post.

Lies? You mean like there will be armageddon if the UK leaves the EU, aliens will attack, there will be no terrorist protection, etc.,etc.,
This claim that Brexit campaigners lied was made by the media!
There were NO lies told by Brexit supporters - Brexit people had had a long time to prepare their arguments, there was no reason to lie as they had the stronger hand.
There were no lies

Again, where are your sources? Nobody said aliens will attack. Nobody said there would be no terrorist protection, though they did say that leaving could compromise intelligence between us and EU security bodies, which makes sense.

The Leave campaign lied. Over and over. It is accepted even by Brexiteers. It has been proven again and again. Do you just stick your fingers in your ears every time somebody says anything you don't like, like a five year old?

For me, people can be judged by the company they keep. So the Brexiteers are in the esteemed company of the ERG, UKIP, the DUP, the BNP, Britain First, National Front, Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist–Leninist) etc. All perfectly reasonable, non-extreme groups, right? Oh, and Tim Martin, currently bleating about his profits after forcing his political ideas on his customers. Genius.

[libraryguy]

"From age 50+ the majority of votes are for leave."

So are you advocating anyone over 50 is to be denied a vote just so you can have the result you want?

Every vote from 18+ to when you die is valid. Or are you also advocating that people have to take an intelligence test to see if they're clever enough and also under a certain age?

If Joe Public voted to Leave because they didn't like their eastern European neighbour, or voted to Remain cos they liked the look of David Cameron, or indeed voted for whatever reason, however trivial or stupid, they are ALL valid votes.

Stop trying to put forward an argument you can never win and accept the result. Or if you can't go emigrate to Europe.

[The PNP]

A) I'm CLEARLY one of the backing DEMOCRACY brigade.

B) What do I hope to gain... OK for a start I never truly believed the £350 million on the side of the bus. However, I do know we paid more in than we got out of it, so from that perspective, we'd be better off and able to use that money in the UK. Better it gaining "interest" in our bank than the EU.

C) Healthcare - you can buy travel insurance, can't you? You have to do it to go to elsewhere outside the EU, so what's the difference?

D) From a purely selfish point of view, my job prospects are little above zero.

E) And as for the weather - give me the British weather any day. Too much heat makes me ill, so I'm quite happy with the cool climate here with the odd spell of nice warm weather. And I find travelling very stressful......I'm quite happy where I am thank you..

A) Surely democracy means giving the people a choice, now that the true facts about Brexit have become largely separated from the fiction?

B) True the UK paid more than it received, yet the benefits of membership more than outweighed that....But you still haven't answered my question, namely what do you yourself stand to get out of leaving (if anything)?

C) I don't buy healthcare insurance for when in the UK - or when in the rest of the EU. I have no need to, as free healthcare is provided thanks to our membership.

D) After leaving, expect thousands more (car workers etc) to join you on the dole!

E) Fair enough, but please don't deprive millions of Brits of the right to relocate to the warmer, drier climes in southern Europe. Brexit will be a great disappointment for many hard-working folk, who cherished a dream of living out their golden years in the sun.

[seivad]

"From age 50+ the majority of votes are for leave."

So are you advocating anyone over 50 is to be denied a vote just so you can have the result you want?

No, of course not. If you re-read my comment and the quote I included from Said, you will see that I am simply refuting Said's claim

Every vote from 18+ to when you die is valid. Or are you also advocating that people have to take an intelligence test to see if they're clever enough and also under a certain age?

If Joe Public voted to Leave because they didn't like their eastern European neighbour, or voted to Remain cos they liked the look of David Cameron, or indeed voted for whatever reason, however trivial or stupid, they are ALL valid votes.

Stop trying to put forward an argument you can never win and accept the result. Or if you can't go emigrate to Europe.

You really need to read my comment in its context. I am merely pointing out that the statistics posted by Said are incorrect.

Although I might believe that remain would have been the better result, I have never once questioned the validity of the referendum vote. I also believe that as the government in office promised to deliver the result of the referendum, then deliver it they must... preferably with a good withdrawal deal.

[seivad]

People in the UK now have far more allergies than ever before, so why is that?

If it's the EU's fault, why is it that other EU countries have fewer incidences of allergies than the UK?

Safe goods you say:

In the last two years, cases of allergic eczema by exposure to this preservative have increased dramatically, research has found.The chemical in question, called Methylisothiazolinone (MI) is a common preservative used in toiletries including moist wipes, cleansers, shower gels, soaps, deodorants, shaving foams and sunscreens but also dishwashing liquids, mascaras and hair products." Healthista.

Too bad that you didn't check that in 2014 the EU banned MCI/MI in leave on products, and reduced the permissible amounts in rinse off products. Other countries have since followed the EU's lead.

[Toodles McGinty]

"From age 50+ the majority of votes are for leave."

So are you advocating anyone over 50 is to be denied a vote just so you can have the result you want?

Every vote from 18+ to when you die is valid. Or are you also advocating that people have to take an intelligence test to see if they're clever enough and also under a certain age?

If Joe Public voted to Leave because they didn't like their eastern European neighbour, or voted to Remain cos they liked the look of David Cameron, or indeed voted for whatever reason, however trivial or stupid, they are ALL valid votes.

Stop trying to put forward an argument you can never win and accept the result. Or if you can't go emigrate to Europe.

I don't think anybody is advocating taking anyone's votes away. Although an IQ test might be a good idea...

Of course all votes are valid. The debate, and it's only a debate, as the situation is out of our hands, is the validity of the claims made by either side. Or the information to hand when the referendum was held. And now, there is a question of the type of deal that is being presented. Some, as you pointed out, want to leave with no-deal. Some, leave with a deal. Some remain. All different points of view, and I don't see why it is not up for discussion.

The attitude that 'you can't debate this, you lost so shut up' is extremely ignorant. The statement that 'if you don't like it, emigrate' sounds rather BNP-ish. Why can't people have an opinion about what is going on in their country? Britain doesn't belong to the 51.odd% of those that bothered to turn out and vote leave. It also belongs to the 48% that voted remain, almost half the electorate on the day. And those that didn't even turn up.

There is little else on the news. There is little else being discussed in the media, because it isn't all done and dusted. Extensions, backstops, Meaningful Vote part 349, red lines, none of it is going away soon. It's a long way from done and dusted. Even LINO herself is threatening that it may never happen.

Shutting down debate because you don't like the arguments presented smacks of fascism. If you want to start goose-stepping up and down the streets because current affairs aren't being discussed to your liking, don't you think you need to step back and have a think about it?

[libraryguy]

I'm sorry but I'm not shutting down debate, I'm merely pointing out that we had a democratic referendum. Once a vote has been decided then it should be acted upon in the name of, and for, democracy.

In the words of (and attributed to) Voltaire "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." That is democracy. Everyone has the right to free speech as long as it doesn't incite hatred. Similarly, everyone has the right to a free vote dependent on their views, whatever they may be, right or wrong, informed or not that those views are.

I'm certainly not BNP ish - at least I would NEVER have classed myself like that God forbid.

When we have a General Election do we keep arguing about those that lost? What about the Nth% that didn't vote for the MP. As I've said before, the referendum was a perfect and classic example of democracy. 1 Question, 2 answers a simple majority, what's so hard to understand about it?

However, having just three candidates campaigning for one seat is flawed under our present first past the post system. Candidate A gets 40% of the vote, Candidate B 30%, and Candidate C 20%. Candidate A wins....despite the fact, the total votes against him are 50%. Where's the logic in that? But I don't hear massive public outrage for not having proportional representation. Oh yes, we had a referendum on that and it was heavily voted down.

So... what about the 50% who voted against Candidate A?

52% of the people who voted, chose to Leave a simple majority. You ask the question, you're given the answer now put it into practice - otherwise, what was the point in the whole exercise if you were going to ignore it?

We now need to all come together and work to make Leaving a success, not try and fight and throw our dummies out the pram cos we lost, so I'm going to have a temper tantrum and hold my breath till I get what I want.

Why can't the 48% accept it was a Leave vote and we all work together.

And to Mr PNP you ask me what I will personally get out of it - probably nothing, but my vote was and is no less and no more important than yours or anyone else. And those that chose NOT to vote also had the democratic right to make that choice.