Collusion With The EU

[said]

He doesn't promote anything thats the problem he sits on the fence when in reality he hates the EU and always has done.

He is a duplicitous political pygmy and hates the EU as much as Mogg he just isn't as honest.

After the scenario of Brexit - can you claim ANY politician is honest? Most of those little tykes on the streets would make good politicians.

[Hamble]

Corbyn is against capitalism yet he promotes Remain - must be senile dementia.

More likely his economic strategy.

[Toodles McGinty]

The first part was from the Trumpet - the second part was from Wikipedia. So according to you - they are both wrong, then?

The first part is utter nonsense and the second part describes the vision of two World War 2 ministers. Part 2 doesn't prove the validity of part 1.

The Treaty of Paris was the forerunner of the Treaty of Rome, and was the idea of a French chap, not a German, and definitely not a Nazi.

And still, the logical conclusion of your theory, based on post #1 and post#5, is that our Prime Minister is colluding with a long term Nazi plan to control the continent of Europe.

[Desert Region]

How do you manage to do it, said? .


You begin with a basis comprised of two very reasonable contentions:

• Theresa May is a Remainer
• The EU wants the UK to remain

But even at the outset, you need to mangle this two-pronged point by insisting, with nothing in support, that she, Theresa May, "has been colluding with the EU even before her time in office."

Then, by only your second post you are doubting the credibility of the sources in your original post; you then newly quote part of an opinion piece from an online magazine that trumpets itself as the successor to the Plain Truth magazine; and then chuck into the mix something about the Nazis you read on Wiki.

And judging from your comment in post #14 of this thread, it's a piece of common knowledge that seems to have passed you by: that Jeremy Corbyn is as Eurosceptic as they come.

How do you view The Trumpet - is that a creditable magazine?

Sure - just quote away from a site you stumble upon on a net trawl, without evidently reading any other article on that site (as you would in order to try to gain an impression of it), and then ask other posters, against whom you are trying to argue, to judge the general credibility of your source .

Still, not only do you contribute the most posts to this forum, but unquestionably your posts are absolute reply-magnets.

This site's owners must consider you a godsend!


I'm just waiting now for Delia to stop by and drop in her opinion .

[Toodles McGinty]

I'm just waiting now for Delia to stop by and drop in her opinion .

Is Starbucks still doing free wifi?

"One latte and a change of IP address, please."

[The PNP]

The Treaty of Paris was the forerunner of the Treaty of Rome, and was the idea of a French chap, not a German, and definitely not a Nazi.

Even before that, were the Benelux countries....Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg.
As far as I know, their three-way alliance was the forerunner to everything that came after.



STOP BREXIT!

[seivad]

Even before that, were the Benelux countries....Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg.
As far as I know, their three-way alliance was the forerunner to everything that came after.

Yes it was. The Benelux Union was founded just before the end of WW2, but didn't come into effect until 1948. This union was the inspiration for the European Coal & Steel Community.



EDIT I really should check The Trumpet to see what their opinion is on Benelux.

[said]

Thank you so much for the flattering remarks - they are a bit short towards me on this site

By the way - Have you read "Berlin Rules" written by Paul Lever, ex British Ambassador to Germany?

"The European Union was a tool created to allow Germany to dominate Europe by economic means when they failed to do so by military might. Countries surrounding Germany have been turned into economic colonies of Germany, supporting Germany by providing cheap labour for assembly lines. The Euro currency was designed to solve the problem of German industry being constantly undermined by the ever rising value of the German Mark. The Mark was buried in weaker currencies and saved from constant appreciation in value." Book Review Feb. 2019.

"In the second half of the twentieth century, Germany became the dominant political and economic power in Europe - and the arbiter of all important EU decisions. Yet Germany's leadership of the EU is geared principally to the defence of German national interests. Germany exercises power in order to protect the German economy and to enable it to play an influential role in the wider world. Beyond that there is no underlying vision or purpose" Preview.

[seivad]

Thank you so much for the flattering remarks - they are a bit short towards me on this site

Flattering remarks... are you reading the same remarks as I am?

[said]

Flattering remarks... are you reading the same remarks as I am?

Ha!Ha! Trust me - they are flattering compared to other remarks received!

[The PNP]

The European Union was a tool created to allow Germany to dominate Europe by economic means when they failed to do so by military might. Countries surrounding Germany have been turned into economic colonies of Germany, supporting Germany by providing cheap labour for assembly lines.

And we're going to take on all 27 EU states, inc Germany, single-handed when we leave - whilst at same time cutting off our own supply of 'cheap EU labour'? Sounds like a great plan!



STOP BREXIT!

[seivad]

By the way - Have you read "Berlin Rules" written by Paul Lever, ex British Ambassador to Germany?

"The European Union was a tool created to allow Germany to dominate Europe by economic means when they failed to do so by military might. Countries surrounding Germany have been turned into economic colonies of Germany, supporting Germany by providing cheap labour for assembly lines. The Euro currency was designed to solve the problem of German industry being constantly undermined by the ever rising value of the German Mark. The Mark was buried in weaker currencies and saved from constant appreciation in value." Book Review Feb. 2019.

"In the second half of the twentieth century, Germany became the dominant political and economic power in Europe - and the arbiter of all important EU decisions. Yet Germany's leadership of the EU is geared principally to the defence of German national interests. Germany exercises power in order to protect the German economy and to enable it to play an influential role in the wider world. Beyond that there is no underlying vision or purpose" Preview.

Copied from Paul Lever's book:

German leadership of Europe may be benign, but former generations of British statesmen would see its emergence as a failure of British foreign policy. Now that we are leaving the EU we will be powerless to influence it.

Germany is, in the words of Professor William Paterson, Britain's leading academic expert on the country, a ‘reluctant hegemon’. Power of the kind that Germany now wields in Europe is not something German Governments have consciously sought, nor indeed is it welcome to German public opinion. No German politician would dream of using the sort of phrases (born to lead, manifest destiny, the city on the hill) which trip so easily off the American tongues. The idea put forward by Nicholas Ridley in 1990, which brought about his resignation from the British Government, that Economic and Monetary Union was a 'German racket designed to take over the whole of Europe', is as absurd now as it was then.

It is not Germany that has set out to lead; it is others who have chosen to follow."

Source: https://books.google.ca/books?id=nGK...pinion&f=false

[local]

And we're going to take on all 27 EU states, inc Germany, single-handed when we leave - whilst at same time cutting off our own supply of 'cheap EU labour'? Sounds like a great plan!



STOP BREXIT!

I have never understood the mindset of those yourself included that think leaving the EU means we need to adopt some sort of aggressive stance.

We are not falling off a cliff, crashing out or any of the other project fear banner headlines.
We are simply running all our own affairs (or trying to)

I imagine your next door neighbours (if they don't mind their lungs full of smoke particles) speak to you and co-operate , well maybe.

They also make there own decisions which I hope you realise is just a wish to be independent not a declaration of war.

[The PNP]

I have never understood the mindset of those yourself included that think leaving the EU means we need to adopt some sort of aggressive stance.

But we must, when we go forth into the big wide world - that's if we are to prosper.

No good pussyfooting around when it comes to the cutthroat world of global business. You have to go behind your (former) mates backs, undercut the next guy, pay backhanders and bribes, badmouth their product, sell to dodgy states that others will not, etc, etc.....In short, make all-out economic war against your old partners (and anyone else who surfaces) whilst pretending to still be best of buddies!




STOP BREXIT!

[Desert Region]

Thank you so much for the flattering remarks - they are a bit short towards me on this site

By the way - Have you read "Berlin Rules" written by Paul Lever, ex British Ambassador to Germany?

"The European Union was a tool created to allow Germany to dominate Europe by economic means when they failed to do so by military might. Countries surrounding Germany have been turned into economic colonies of Germany, supporting Germany by providing cheap labour for assembly lines. The Euro currency was designed to solve the problem of German industry being constantly undermined by the ever rising value of the German Mark. The Mark was buried in weaker currencies and saved from constant appreciation in value." Book Review Feb. 2019.

"In the second half of the twentieth century, Germany became the dominant political and economic power in Europe - and the arbiter of all important EU decisions. Yet Germany's leadership of the EU is geared principally to the defence of German national interests. Germany exercises power in order to protect the German economy and to enable it to play an influential role in the wider world. Beyond that there is no underlying vision or purpose" Preview.

I read the unedited original of this post of yours.

In reply to that content, I would say that the absence of Nazi references helped that argument, helped it not be invalidated.


No, said, I haven't read "Berlin Rules."


I would say that the era of the Common Market / EEC (and the European Communities) seems further distant in time than it actually is.

There is suspicion about the direction and aim of the EU. The supranational element does seem to have become more prominent. Some see this as a drive -or a drift- towards empire building. Macron's recent (and echoed by Merkel) call for a European Army (although never-deployed EUBGs already exist) has added to that read.

I think it's fair to say that views on the UK vis-á-vis the EU often seem shaped by how people identify themself. Some are more connected to the national identity; others to the supranational or European identity.

European-mindeds tend to see nationalists as small- and narrow-minded; nationalists tend to view European-mindeds as disloyal and naive. Among other factors, I also think a person's view on centralised versus decentralised structures is influential.


Certainly, there's more to the debate than seeking to shoehorn Nazi ideas and comparisons into it.

Now, if only someone could explain that to David Lammy .