Big Red Bus "LIE"

[Hamble]

Do you actually read the links you post, sure there is free movement of EU nationals, however to gain permanent residence or access to UK benefits is somewhat different, short term, seasonal work etc does not count towards residency or benefits, self employed must be able to show viable income and have worked here for 3 years in order to claim residency or any benefits.

The exceptions in all cases are when a genuine worker is unable to work due to sickness or injury while living and working in the UK, even retirement no EU national can come here to retire on our pension scheme, sure they can retire here but will need to have viable means from either private sources or their home countries pensions.

Your enemy isn't free movement, it's the gangmaster system and dodgy agencies, who bring workers over to "work" on zero hour contracts, stuck in all manner of substandard accommodation, you only need to look at the "caravan parks" around many growers in this area.

I did not mention benefits!

EU Nationals can live and be supported financially by a partner or relative or friend.

[said]

Reality check!
A: EU funding to the poorer areas does not mean that people will be given cash in hand. What it does mean is that certain projects will receive money - end of. What it is claimed to help are individuals who find themselves at the lower end of the scale for instance:
"The largest single allocation of 2014-2020 ESI funding in England is for the National Offender Management Service (NOMS) to fund activities that support the reintegration of prisoners back into the work force. " Which sounds very grand, but in a country where there are too few jobs, it is not really helpful. Far better would be to put these people on apprenticeships to learn a trade so that they could become self employed.
Other funding is put towards improving environments - making it prettier for those less well off to live! The UK does not get to choose what to spend the money on - it is told!
B: Er, no! Immigrants earn the same minimum wage as UK nationals. You have mentioned farm workers - who are accommodated in caravans on site provided by the site owners. That accommodation is not free - it has to be paid for as do the services provided to those caravans. That is not cheap! There are no leisure facilities provided, no communal areas - simply a bed to sleep on and work to be done. British people would not work under such conditions, so immigrants who are paid a minimum wage, fork out for accommodation and work as cheap labour. Immigrants to the UK are not highly educated, so they work in the service sectors - these sectors would have employed mothers who could only work part time or single parent people. They would also have employed many of the disabled people and those who work slower than normal. The British people who fall into those categories are now out of work - that is grossly unfair! The immigrants who have come to settle in the UK are not the most talented - for if they were they would have become successful in their own country and would not have had the desire to move out.
C. Doctors and Nurses - the medical courses for this profession are well over subscribed in the UK, meaning that we have more than enough personnel to support the NHS. However, as published in the Daily Mail, the NHS agencies actively pursue overseas employees, particularly Philippine staff. Unemployment in the Philippines is very high and to find employment, young people are encouraged to sign up for four year medical courses that they have to fund themselves - around £4000. An enormous sum considering the average wages are around $7.5K per year. Families jointly fund this sum of money for a family member to take up a course. After the course, the student then has to pay an agency several hundred pounds to be placed on their books, and a further sum to travel overseas to employment.These students are exploited in the NHS, sometimes having to travel long distances for placements - from their salaries they have to send money home to repay their student fees to the family. But they are very highly trained. Immigrants are exploited. That is unfair. The employment in the UK should be as a priority British staff, working under fair policies. Any vacancies left, should then go to overseas staff.
D If you follow the social forums - you will see that there are a huge number of British students with up to three degrees, in every field you can name - who cannot find ANY work! There are as many if not more who are underemployed - working in service jobs just to earn a living.
If people with a Doctorate in Engineering or similar cannot find work - it should give you some idea of the state of unemployment in the UK.

[said]

Why are they allowed in? all migrants including those from the EU are supposed to be at least self supporting.

Any religious pretext should be discounted, of whatever religion.

You don't get it do you? A huge number of immigrants that enter the UK do so to take up ready waiting jobs. i.e. self supporting!
The 'ready made' jobs that they are coming to have been advertised in their own countries, at a rate a bit above what they would be earning in their own country. They sign up for the work and are sent over. Their employment conditions and rate of pay are in accordance with the agreements the immigrants have signed in their own country. The agencies are paid to supply employees for various work in the UK by for example 'UK Farm Managers'. These managers pay an agency, who siphon off their percentage and pay low wages to the immigrants. Hence fewer jobs for UK people and exploited immigrant labour!

Other immigrants enter the UK for a number of reasons - the UK is more lax on illegal drug use, or that the Uk is less religious, or that the European climate is more satisfying

[silver fox]

You don't get it do you? A huge number of immigrants that enter the UK do so to take up ready waiting jobs. i.e. self supporting!
The 'ready made' jobs that they are coming to have been advertised in their own countries, at a rate a bit above what they would be earning in their own country. They sign up for the work and are sent over. Their employment conditions and rate of pay are in accordance with the agreements the immigrants have signed in their own country. The agencies are paid to supply employees for various work in the UK by for example 'UK Farm Managers'. These managers pay an agency, who siphon off their percentage and pay low wages to the immigrants. Hence fewer jobs for UK people and exploited immigrant labour!

Other immigrants enter the UK for a number of reasons - the UK is more lax on illegal drug use, or that the Uk is less religious, or that the European climate is more satisfying

You're backing up what I say, this country, this government permits this to happen as a source of cheap labour, I am very well aware of the exploitation of foreign workers particularly in the agricultural sector, when we lived in Hesketh Bank one of these "employers" bought a 3 bed semi very similar to our house, then put 10 workers in there charging rent from them all.

You say British workers won't tolerate these conditions, these conditions should not be tolerated by anyone including local government, fortunately the council did intervene and closed the house, but by the time they did so it was almost the end of the season anyway.

[The PNP]

A) The Arts degrees can be useful for some of our super succesful TV Film and Music industries which bring in a lot more to the countries coffers than many traditional industries.

B) We don't want to use our taxes to subsidise other countries we need to spend it here.

C) You must try to stop running down our country and wishing jobs away to transient visitors.....Try and think of the young people coming through our education system before you give their future and jobs away.

D) Try and consider the young people who want a home and struggle, migrants don't bring homes with them its the same for hospital and school places.....Treasure them and the necessary migrants we do need.

A) I'm not saying an Arts degree is useless, but the country is not short of them. UK needs more engineering types, to develop/produce cutting-edge product, e.g. in the green transport and renewable energy sectors

B) EU money is spent here. Even Sefton has in the past benefitted from EU grants as a 'deprived' area - e.g. EU money helped towards regenerating Lord St gardens....The whole point is to bring a good standard of living to everyone across the EU. That way, you remove the incentive to migrate to 'richer' States.

C) From what I see, EU'ers are prepared to fill the jobs our people don't want to do. How many UK school-leavers would willingly work changing bedding in big hotels, cleaning dirty floors, or in food-processing plants. Or outdoors in all weathers, planting/harvesting lettuce, cabbage, leek etc?

D) Migrants may not 'bring homes' - but they are helping construct new ones....Meanwhile, a certain sector of the indigenous population is happily milking the system. By having kid after kid, to get bigger benefits and avoid having to take a job. Their offspring then adds pressure to the demand for 'free' housing, and you can't blame the EU for that!


STOP BREXIT!

[said]

You're backing up what I say, this country, this government permits this to happen as a source of cheap labour, I am very well aware of the exploitation of foreign workers particularly in the agricultural sector, when we lived in Hesketh Bank one of these "employers" bought a 3 bed semi very similar to our house, then put 10 workers in there charging rent from them all.

You say British workers won't tolerate these conditions, these conditions should not be tolerated by anyone including local government, fortunately the council did intervene and closed the house, but by the time they did so it was almost the end of the season anyway.

If you live in Hesketh Bank - did you see how those immigrants had to work throughout the heat of last summer? They reminded me of the old fashioned pictures of Chinese peasants working in a paddy field. They were provided with warm refreshments in a battered old bus that was parked in a field under the direct heat of the sun and only certain immigrants were allowed the use of a knife to trim the vegetables. The caravans that they are given for accommodation are tiny and very shabby - there is nothing provided for leisure at all. That work that they do used to be undertaken by British students looking to pay their way through college or university - and they did not have to take out massive loans for their education.

[Hamble]

True....But referendums are a different matter entirely from Gen Elections. If we leave the EU, it will be for much longer than five years. Also, any re-joining deal offered to us down the line is unlikely to be as generous as the terms we currently operate under. .


STOP BREXIT!

"Rejoining deal"?

Don't be daft any legislation on Brexit will be Labour proofed.

[The PNP]

"Rejoining deal"?

Don't be daft any legislation on Brexit will be Labour proofed.

I'm saying the UK has to get it right re Brexit, no matter how long it takes - or should it require a confirmatory public vote. Because leaving in disarray, due to the constant calls of a noisy minority, would be one big mistake.

Plain fact is, once out we'll never again be offered the same advantageous terms of our current membership. Not a good position to be in, if we find life outside the EU to be dire. Whereas, remaining in the EU has the distinct advantage of being able to trigger Article 50 again at any future point, should the situation demand it.


STOP BREXIT!

[Hamble]

I'm saying the UK has to get it right re Brexit, no matter how long it takes - or should it require a confirmatory public vote. Because leaving in disarray, due to the constant calls of a noisy minority, would be one big mistake.

Plain fact is, once out we'll never again be offered the same advantageous terms of our current membership. Not a good position to be in, if we find life outside the EU to be dire. Whereas, remaining in the EU has the distinct advantage of being able to trigger Article 50 again at any future point, should the situation demand it.


STOP BREXIT!

What about democracy?

[The PNP]

What about democracy?

We don't vote a particular party in at a Gen election - then never have another Gen election. That would be effectively installing a permanent dictatorship.

So what about a democratic public vote now, three years on, to confirm the peoples willingness (or unwillingness) to leave with a no-deal?


STOP BREXIT!

[Mr B S Sniffer]

We don't vote a particular party in at a Gen election - then never have another Gen election. That would be effectively installing a permanent dictatorship.

So what about a democratic public vote now, three years on, to confirm the peoples willingness (or unwillingness) to leave with a no-deal?


STOP BREXIT!

Don't forget suspension of parliament is being talked about by certain selfservatives.

[silver fox]

If you live in Hesketh Bank - did you see how those immigrants had to work throughout the heat of last summer? They reminded me of the old fashioned pictures of Chinese peasants working in a paddy field. They were provided with warm refreshments in a battered old bus that was parked in a field under the direct heat of the sun and only certain immigrants were allowed the use of a knife to trim the vegetables. The caravans that they are given for accommodation are tiny and very shabby - there is nothing provided for leisure at all. That work that they do used to be undertaken by British students looking to pay their way through college or university - and they did not have to take out massive loans for their education.

Exactly,
plus of course all these immigrants are on no work no pay, plus the caravans are retired holiday camp caravans, don't live in Hesketh Bank now moved 14 years ago.

[local]

We don't vote a particular party in at a Gen election - then never have another Gen election. That would be effectively installing a permanent dictatorship.

So what about a democratic public vote now, three years on, to confirm the peoples willingness (or unwillingness) to leave with a no-deal?


STOP BREXIT!

That's a great idea, genius, don't know why nobody else has thought of that its like compulsory penalties after a football match what ever the result.

Genius, play offs for all Golf Matches.

Confirmatory votes for newlyweds.

Exams.

Traffic lights.

General Elections.

Your on to a winner now.....

[local]

Well the rug was well and truly pulled out of the Big Red Bus lie that remainers hung on to like a drowning rat as a reason for them losing.

The £350 Milion Gross figure was just that .

Who in political campaigning is going to use a net or after tax rebates etc figure for anything from Gary Linekars salary to the price of milk.


I don't doubt though that remoaners will attempt to defend their claims.







https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...mags-final.pdf

[The PNP]

The £350 Milion Gross figure was just that .....Who in political campaigning is going to use a net or after tax rebates etc figure for anything from Gary Linekars salary to the price of milk.

Wish I could spend 100% of the taking from my business on things I want.......Fact is, I'm lucky if I can pocket 50% of it!

Suggesting £350m could go to the NHS instead of the EU was one massive con-trick. No more accurate than a large proportion of the leave campaigns other fanciful claims. Their promised bowl of cherries hasn't materialised, nor will it ever.


STOP BREXIT!