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  1. donkey22 says:11/06/2019 11:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    The BBC did some public consultation, shuffled the results to suit their wishes and announced the results during the leadership elections hoping they could hook a contender to promise to pay.

    They could have had a haircut on wages or put the licence fee up by a few pounds but no they decided to pursue some pensioners because after all SOME can afford it .

    The usual names bandied around Mick Jagger etc ........

    The problem is the people making these decisions are completely detached from the realities of living on a meagre income.
    In BBC la la land the licence fee is the bill for a meal out discussing peasants up north and how to frustrate brexit.
    How deluded are you? The tories are withdrawing it. Stop shuffling your words around. It is this train wreck of a governments doing, Not the BBC.

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  4. gazaprop says:12/06/2019 06:01 AM
    Blimey - there isn't half some drivel posted on here by our local class warriors!
    I can almost see them, wide staring eyes almost popping out of their head, as they scream 'it's the t-o-r-i-e-s' - however tenuous a link the post has to politics.

    Does anyone, other than the most left of lefties, seriously imagine that the saving from this is part of any government's grand fiscal policy - it is peanuts.
    As has been suggested - this is the BBC being asked to live within it's means and deciding it doesn't want to. The BBC have then dangled the hook to see who bites.

    Some perspective needed here as well - it's £2.97 a week. The pensioners will have to make choices like the rest of us do each and every day.

    There is a perspective of entitlement surrounding pensioners which, is a hang over from decades past when we owed our freedom to that section of society.
    They have now gone and the worst today's pensioners have had to endure is five mile tail backs on the M62 or Asda running out of chardonnay.
    I know some pensioners live in poverty, as do some young people, as do some working couples, as do some single Mums, as do some widows, as do some disabled citizens - over to you - which group is the more deserving - maybe they should all get a free TV licence?

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  6. AdmiralAckbar says:12/06/2019 12:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    Blimey - there isn't half some drivel posted on here by our local class warriors!
    I can almost see them, wide staring eyes almost popping out of their head, as they scream 'it's the t-o-r-i-e-s' - however tenuous a link the post has to politics.

    Does anyone, other than the most left of lefties, seriously imagine that the saving from this is part of any government's grand fiscal policy - it is peanuts.
    If you're suggesting this is nothing to do with politics then you clearly missed (or chose to ignore) this earlier post ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr B S Sniffer View Post
    Page 66 from the 2017 Tory Manifesto reads

    "We will maintain all other pensioner benefits, including free bus passes, eye tests, prescriptions and TV licences, for the duration of this parliament."

    So I wonder what's next on the list of promises to be broken!
    That was the same Tory Manifesto that promised to deliver the result of the 2016 EU Referendum... are you suggesting that they should be allowed to pick and choose what promises to keep???

    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    As has been suggested - this is the BBC being asked to live within it's means and deciding it doesn't want to. The BBC have then dangled the hook to see who bites. Some perspective needed here as well - it's £2.97 a week. The pensioners will have to make choices like the rest of us do each and every day.
    Yes, in the great scheme of things, it is a small amount ... so small in fact you would think that the government wouldn't have been so petty about how they've dealt with it, offloading the responsibility onto the BBC so they wouldn't get the blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    There is a perspective of entitlement surrounding pensioners which, is a hang over from decades past when we owed our freedom to that section of society.
    They have now gone and the worst today's pensioners have had to endure is five mile tail backs on the M62 or Asda running out of chardonnay.
    My Dad (who thankfully is still alive and well) was in the merchant navy in the far east from 1944 onwards. When he returned to the UK after his service, he worked in various jobs up to his retirement, paying his tax and NI contributions over that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    I know some pensioners live in poverty, as do some young people, as do some working couples, as do some single Mums, as do some widows, as do some disabled citizens - over to you - which group is the more deserving - maybe they should all get a free TV licence?
    Going back to my Dad, but like many others who've paid into the system for all their working life, the free TV licence could (and in my opinion should) be considered as a reward for that.

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  8. gazaprop says:12/06/2019 03:11 PM
    Fair enough but -

    Points 1 & 2 - is not sticking to a manifesto solely a Tory issue? Show me a Government that hasn't told porkies or has stuck to it's manifesto pledges and I'll show you a six legged Jack Russell juggling half a dozen gold plated kittens.

    Point 3 - we appear to agree in principle and the fact remains it is a BBC decision to do what they have done.

    Point 4 - I don't wish to come across as disrespectful to your Dad but this is a prime example of whataboutary.
    Unless you are particularly dim (and I don't think you are) you know perfectly well the point I was making so I'll say no more on that.

    Point 5 - yes, I agree it could, whether or not it should is a different matter. Especially so as you set great store in this paragraph (as you did in the previous paragraph) in having paid in.
    Do I take it that Carers and Housewives would be excluded from this benevolence by virtue of not having 'paid into the system for all their working life'?

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  10. silver fox says:12/06/2019 09:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    Fair enough but -

    Points 1 & 2 - is not sticking to a manifesto solely a Tory issue? Show me a Government that hasn't told porkies or has stuck to it's manifesto pledges and I'll show you a six legged Jack Russell juggling half a dozen gold plated kittens.

    Point 3 - we appear to agree in principle and the fact remains it is a BBC decision to do what they have done.

    Point 4 - I don't wish to come across as disrespectful to your Dad but this is a prime example of whataboutary.
    Unless you are particularly dim (and I don't think you are) you know perfectly well the point I was making so I'll say no more on that.

    Point 5 - yes, I agree it could, whether or not it should is a different matter. Especially so as you set great store in this paragraph (as you did in the previous paragraph) in having paid in.
    Do I take it that Carers and Housewives would be excluded from this benevolence by virtue of not having 'paid into the system for all their working life'?
    Sod the manifesto or promises, this is no more than Tories being Tories, over recent times they have in turn blamed the unemployed, the sick, single mothers now it's the turn of the elderly to catch a bit of Tory "compassion", the sums involved are peanuts in the overall expenditure, but just another chance to give a good old kick in the ribs to those least able to deal with it.

    At the same time bloody Johnson's main plank in his PM campaign is more tax cuts for high earners, if I could afford a sick bag I would be using it right now.

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  12. gazaprop says:13/06/2019 07:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    Sod the manifesto or promises, this is no more than Tories being Tories, over recent times they have in turn blamed the unemployed, the sick, single mothers now it's the turn of the elderly to catch a bit of Tory "compassion", the sums involved are peanuts in the overall expenditure, but just another chance to give a good old kick in the ribs to those least able to deal with it.

    At the same time bloody Johnson's main plank in his PM campaign is more tax cuts for high earners, if I could afford a sick bag I would be using it right now.
    You see that's my point exactly - tories tories tories is your clarion cry - yet you dismiss my point about governments of either colour lying and dissembling to the electorate as being of no consequence!
    In the same week as Boris made that remark wasn't there a tory speaking about raising the NI threshold to take low paid workers out of the tax system altogether.

    This is the BBC hiking up the cost and laying the bill at pensioner's doors not the government.
    For crying out aloud the tories have long bemoaned the organisation as being full of lefty trotskeyites whilst labour go on about it being an old school tie club - which is it?
    Maybe some of the champagne socialists who are regarded by the BBC as 'talent' should have a look at the obscene amount of our money they trouser each year.

    Politicians of any colour are, in the main, a shower of lying, self serving yes men - I'd struggle to name a handful of 'conviction' politicians of the top of my head.

    You lob into the debate the emotively charged phrase - 'tory compassion'. There are many examples of political compassion if you take the class warrior blinkers off.

    The decimation of manufacturing in this country, the collapse of banks more recently, the slaughter and maiming of young soldiers in the name of being remembered as a great statesman, the unrealistic levels of debt put on students and their families via tuition fees and top up loans, HM's opposition clearly stating that they would have carried out the same measures on austerity as the tories, turning the countries economy into a service/gig model with low pay and no security, paying billions overseas to prop up military dictators or political despots - the list goes on and on and - they are all as guilty as each other.

    I have little time for those who support a political party no matter what, the same goes for those whom chant the same mantra against others no matter what.

  13. silver fox says:13/06/2019 07:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    You see that's my point exactly - tories tories tories is your clarion cry - yet you dismiss my point about governments of either colour lying and dissembling to the electorate as being of no consequence!
    In the same week as Boris made that remark wasn't there a tory speaking about raising the NI threshold to take low paid workers out of the tax system altogether.

    This is the BBC hiking up the cost and laying the bill at pensioner's doors not the government.
    For crying out aloud the tories have long bemoaned the organisation as being full of lefty trotskeyites whilst labour go on about it being an old school tie club - which is it?
    Maybe some of the champagne socialists who are regarded by the BBC as 'talent' should have a look at the obscene amount of our money they trouser each year.

    Politicians of any colour are, in the main, a shower of lying, self serving yes men - I'd struggle to name a handful of 'conviction' politicians of the top of my head.

    You lob into the debate the emotively charged phrase - 'tory compassion'. There are many examples of political compassion if you take the class warrior blinkers off.

    The decimation of manufacturing in this country, the collapse of banks more recently, the slaughter and maiming of young soldiers in the name of being remembered as a great statesman, the unrealistic levels of debt put on students and their families via tuition fees and top up loans, HM's opposition clearly stating that they would have carried out the same measures on austerity as the tories, turning the countries economy into a service/gig model with low pay and no security, paying billions overseas to prop up military dictators or political despots - the list goes on and on and - they are all as guilty as each other.

    I have little time for those who support a political party no matter what, the same goes for those whom chant the same mantra against others no matter what.
    Enjoy your little rant then?

    OK politically fair to say my inclinations are left of centre, but I am not a member of the Labour Party, I don't think Labour are always right, I'm certainly not a communist nor even a particularly steadfast socialist, however when it comes to Tories every move they make is designed to penalise the less fortunate in our country, even projects set out with a reasonable purpose, the Tories will change the implementation into a penalty scheme, you mention the decimation of British industry, who was behind that? This current fracas over TV licences is standard Tory tactic, put the responsibility to someone else without the funding and hope the "someone else" will carry the can, think all public sector service, think local authority funding, education, yes I noticed a tiny sop to the low paid, this will have minimal effect on a very small number of people, not to be refused but not exactly cause for massive celebration either.

    I freely admit that I despise, detest and distrust the Tories totally, sure all politicians need a very close watching and would also agree there are very few true conviction politicians, most are now too enclosed in their Westminster bubble to have real contact with issues in the normal world and ideology takes over from the normal world, these same politicians are now surprised when they get unexpected (to them) election results and are now scrabbling round trying to hit the right populist note.

    Would agree that total bias is not always pretty, but there are more than a few Tory biased posts I will combat, after all it's still (just) a free country.

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