US UK trade deal

[steve]

Could be 4 or 5 times bigger than now??

i never seem to be able to find what this would or could be.

My fear is any trade deal with US will be grossly in their favour so what would be in it for the UK? Food imports that destroy our own industry and a drop in standards?

Happy to be educated on this subject

[seivad]

Could be 4 or 5 times bigger than now??

i never seem to be able to find what this would or could be.

My fear is any trade deal with US will be grossly in their favour so what would be in it for the UK? Food imports that destroy our own industry and a drop in standards?

Happy to be educated on this subject

Until trade negotiations begin, don't even attempt to speculate what the final deal will be.

The orange and blonde one may have committed to a UK/US trade deal, but that's just the first step on a long and winding road. All products produced by both countries will be negotiated. All British products that the US will consider to have an unfair competitive advantage will be contentious. All of the UK's standards will be on the table, as will the lesser standards employed by the US. The list goes on and on.

During trade negotiations every country seeks to protect certain domestic sectors, usually by insisting on tariff rate quotas, and this is where the sticking points are The US is particularly aggressive in this regard, but they want your protections lifted, while theirs stay in place. It's America first all of the way.

Using NAFTA as an example... Canada uses supply management to protect their dairy sector. In NAFTA we have always had TRQs in place to limit the amount of dairy products entering duty free from the US. The US has always wanted the Canadian market to allow US dairy to enter in unlimited quantities/duty free under NAFTA. While they do subsidise their dairy farmers, they don't agree that their dairy farmers have the same advantage as ours. We won't budge, they won't budge. After months and months in the recent renegotiation of NAFTA, we eventually conceded a slight increase in the tariff rate quota. It's so small as to be negligible to either country's economy, but what a frustrating time eater.

Further problems occur with differing regulation/product standards/environmental laws/labour costs etc. And this is also where the UK will also encounter some major sticking points.

UK negotiators will have their hands full dealing with the likes of Bob Lighthizer and his crew. Don't expect a quick result. Trade deals take years and are fraught with complications.

[The PNP]

If perishable imports/exports are to be flown to/from the US, they will carry a heavy carbon footprint. A major step in the wrong direction, as we're supposed to be aiming for a carbon-neutral economy.

Alternative is by sea, which introduces a delay of several days. Not ideal, compared to shipping fresh food via overnight ferries to/from the EU.


STOP BREXIT!

[bensherman]

A complete waste of time to our farmers and fishermen who export (now) high-value perishables and many of whom now face disaster.

Remember how we were told Brexit would help them? It didn't make sense, and during the Tory leadership campaign Hunt announced £6bn aid would be given to them to cope with the effects.

You couldn't, and wouldn't want to, make it up

[Toodles McGinty]

My fear is any trade deal with US will be grossly in their favour so what would be in it for the UK? Food imports that destroy our own industry and a drop in standards?

I reckon that is the fear of most people. I read repeatedly about how any trade deal with the US will involve healthcare, according to Trump and more recently the US Ambassador. That on it's own fills me with trepidation.

Then we factor in the obvious, such as our little country (or what's left of it) can never have the clout of the US, China or the EU. Then (if Johnson is to be believed) we'll be heavily in debt to the EU by not paying the 'divorce bill', so will have a poor credit rating in world finance. I suppose at that point we'll be desperate to do trade deals with anyone, so our bargaining position is going to be rock bottom.

The US will fleece us for what they can get. They aren't a charity. I certainly would in Trump's position.

It's that or go cap in hand to the EU, who'll ask for £39b (plus interest) before they'll take our calls.

For those on a low income, it's going to be a lean, lean time. For disaster capitalists, it's party central.

[local]

We often get this USA low standards comment yet the reality is in the litigation capital food problems mean law suits.

I have spent many months in the US and certainly had no problems.

Trump wants a Trade deal asap with the UK as he has an election looming, doesn't like the EU but does us.

But of course the market that will still figure is the EU too many companies rely hugely on us for their market.

I have no doubt some posturing EU demi-gods will try to make an example of us but they need us and we want them, money will be the driver.

Trump and Johnson will be eager for a deal.

[steve]

Worth a good read, I’m now even more worried

https://www.tjm.org.uk/trade-deals/a-uk-us-trade-deal

I’m still losing the plot about trade deals, our tech comes mainly from US, Korea, Japan, China ... our clothes from Bangladesh and India ... our food from all over the world ... our cars from Germany and Japan mainly ... our wines from all over the world ... and nearly everything else from China

[said]

If perishable imports/exports are to be flown to/from the US, they will carry a heavy carbon footprint. A major step in the wrong direction, as we're supposed to be aiming for a carbon-neutral economy.

Alternative is by sea, which introduces a delay of several days. Not ideal, compared to shipping fresh food via overnight ferries to/from the EU.


STOP BREXIT!

The only fresh food shipped from the EU is farm produce. The UK will now concentrate on greater domestic produce so that we will not have to import these goods. Oranges, Tomatoes etc., from the EU are transported overland to the ferries. By the time they get to the UK it takes longer than the six hours flight from the States. The fruit that cannot be grown in the UK comes from South America, etc., That is still brought into the EU, just the same as it would to the UK

[Toodles McGinty]

Worth a good read, I’m now even more worried

https://www.tjm.org.uk/trade-deals/a-uk-us-trade-deal

I’m still losing the plot about trade deals, our tech comes mainly from US, Korea, Japan, China ... our clothes from Bangladesh and India ... our food from all over the world ... our cars from Germany and Japan mainly ... our wines from all over the world ... and nearly everything else from China

That article sounds as though we'll have to lower standards by quite a lot, and they can sue us if we complain.

It seems that although our goods are imported from all over the world, it's all through trade deals as part of the EU. I don't know if we currently have any deals as a single country apart from the EU. I know we have some continuity deals that we want to carry on when we leave. Not sure they are set in stone though.

[Mr B S Sniffer]

That article sounds as though we'll have to lower standards by quite a lot, and they can sue us if we complain.

It seems that although our goods are imported from all over the world, it's all through trade deals as part of the EU. I don't know if we currently have any deals as a single country apart from the EU. I know we have some continuity deals that we want to carry on when we leave. Not sure they are set in stone though.

Investor-State Dispute Settlement I believe it's called. As you say it would allow them to sue our government for measures that harm profits.

[steve]

One quote from that report said it all to me. Like the French wanting a digital tax on big tech firms to then be threatened with wine tariffs. US don’t rule the world even though they think they do. We would become another state of the US

A US tobacco giant sued Australia for attempting to introduce plain-cigarette packaging legislation - a policy designed to protect public health.

[said]

We often get this USA low standards comment yet the reality is in the litigation capital food problems mean law suits.

I have spent many months in the US and certainly had no problems.

Trump wants a Trade deal asap with the UK as he has an election looming, doesn't like the EU but does us.

But of course the market that will still figure is the EU too many companies rely hugely on us for their market.

I have no doubt some posturing EU demi-gods will try to make an example of us but they need us and we want them, money will be the driver.

Trump and Johnson will be eager for a deal.

Not at present. The UK did not sign up for the TTIP agreement which would have meant that USA companies could sue the UK, if by any action carried out in the UK, those companies would lose out on profits. Hopefully, this would still be the case.
Trump has no more 'love' for the UK, than the UK has for him! The USA has always used the UK to negotiate various measures with the EU on behalf of the USA. The general UK public have no faith in the USA at all and certainly very little respect for all the propaganda and lies applied to our media which comes out of the US.
Trade deals with the EU and the USA have been under negotiation for many years. The USA refuse to adhere to EU regulations. But since Brexit, the EU have decided to agree to certain USA terms and relax their policies - the EU is also likely to agree to the highly damaging TTIP agreement which is in the USA's favour alone.
The UK has several trade deals waiting to be actioned once we are out of the EU - the USA is not the only deal. If British people do not like USA products they will not purchase them. Hopefully, GM foods will still be forbidden in the UK.
I, too, spent some time in the US. and I can honestly say that I was not impressed by their food nor culinary talents.

[The PNP]

A) The only fresh food shipped from the EU is farm produce.

B) The UK will now concentrate on greater domestic produce so that we will not have to import these goods.

C) Oranges, Tomatoes etc., from the EU are transported overland to the ferries. By the time they get to the UK it takes longer than the six hours flight from the States.

A) Except for sea-caught fish, where else does fresh produce come from apart from farms?

B) Not possible, there's nowhere near enough farmland. Even during the War with a significantly smaller population, the UK had to severely ration most foods. Reason: imports from occupied mainland Europe stopped.

C) Flying in masses of fresh foodstuffs daily from the States is going to cost way more - and carries a much heavier carbon footprint. How many planes are you going to need, to replace 10,000 trucks a day through Dover?


STOP BERXIT!

[*concerned*]

Don't see what all the fuss is about ?

ANY supplier in the EU sending ANYTHING to the UK, the very last thing they want is tariffs and or interruption to trade flow.

OK, there may be some issues from Day 1 when we leave the EU, but new trade rules will be put into place very quickly, otherwise the EU suppliers will cause havoc with the EU Council

[The PNP]

ANY supplier in the EU sending ANYTHING to the UK, the very last thing they want is tariffs and or interruption to trade flow.

Precisely - and the same can be said for UK companies exporting to the EU.

What we currently have is ideal, i.e. free trade/unhindered passage of goods both ways. Any trade interruption/introduction of tariffs harms everyone - Brexit really is a bonkers idea!


STOP BREXIT!