Operation Yellowhammer - is it time to stock up

[Hamble]

not the 1st time you've mentioned this to H is it ...

Not the first time I have said "I know but...."

You need to work out how 'illegal migrants' get from Italy to the UK.
Not legal(waiting 2 years in Italy) as discussed in last post.



https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lapse-schengen


https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...igration-deal/

[local]

Perhaps if you weren't so trigger happy to go off ranting yourself, you might find some elements of common ground with other posters (like the bit I've highlighted above, which I'm sure the majority posting here would agree with) instead of treating most like adversaries.

Everyone should pay their fair share ... I suppose the arguing comes from peoples definitions of what is fair.

Whats your problem with the rest ?

[Toodles McGinty]

Not the first time I have said "I know but...."

You need to work out how 'illegal migrants' get from Italy to the UK.
Not legal(waiting 2 years in Italy) as discussed in last post.



https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lapse-schengen


https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...igration-deal/

Don't you think illegals will still come here? They don't stroll through the airports, as illustrated by the camps in Calais.

The Guardian article is a good read. Borders should shut to anyone other than EU passport holders. And I still say that those with a criminal record shouldn't be allowed to stay here.

No - you are wrong! It is the higher earners who pay most tax in the UK. According to the Daily Telegraph:

"Analysis of Government figures published yesterday shows that for the first time the richest workers, estimated as those earning more than £75,300 a year, will pay just over 50 per cent of the income tax collected by the Treasury."

So they should. We all have to pay to be here.

If it was not for wealthy people being in the UK - the alternative would be for everyone to be paid the same wages and everything would have to be distributed evenly. Which would mean that those who work harder and who are more educated would not benefit from their efforts. Would this be fair?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be wealthy people. We need wealth generators. I'm certainly not saying people should be paid the same wages. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. There have to be incentives to generate wealth, hence small businesses and startups should be encouraged. Then employ people to boost the economy. I'm saying that tax avoidance should be curbed, tax evasion should carry a heavier punishment, and corporation tax should be a lot higher.

I would say it would be fairer if people earned in accordance with the amount of effort given to the economy.

I agree. Again, we need wealth generators.

This can only be done if everyone was working. People cannot be working until jobs are provided... So everyone is now on high wages - but employees do not work hard because they see lesser able people earning the same as they are...

There will always be a variety of incomes. The risk takers and wealth generators should reap the highest rewards. But for society to work, they also have to pay the highest tax. It isn't some kind of either communist or capitalist Utopia, it has to be something in the middle.

Would you want someone who could not be bothered to learn anything at school, has never bothered to work - to be paid the same wages as a highly educated/trained person who has worked all their life?

See my previous comment.

The wealthy business people who protested about coming out of the EU, did so because they received huge grants from the EU for doing absolutely nothing! The wealthy were being paid for the amount of land they owned. EU taxpayers were paying for this. From the Guardian:
"......the most regressive transfer of public money in the modern world. Farmers are paid by the hectare for owning or using land; so the more you have, the more you get. While in the UK benefits for poor people are capped at £20,000 (outside London), these benefits for the rich are uncapped. Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons."

Are you talking about the Common Agricultural Policy? People aren't paid for simply owning land, they are paid if they have farms. Same as all over the EU. Now farmers are terrified that their livelihoods will disappear. Refer to the endless posts about WTO tariffs.

Perhaps we should limit the amount of land that Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons can own here. None of those are from the EU and they'll still have it all after we leave.

I'm not talking about taxing people earning less than £100k to the teeth. Nor am I saying everyone should earn and pay the same amount. But the current system certainly isn't working. When we have working people having to claim benefits or go to food banks, the system is screwed or there is something very wrong with the government.

A bit of both, I reckon. That wealth imbalance is not going to narrow when we are an unregulated tax haven. It certainly won't change with this current shower of shite in power.

[silver fox]

Well we'll start very simply so you can explain it to everyone,

at which point in the field to shelf chain will it stop dead ?


You shouldn't have a problem answering that.


Then you can go on to explain the same for medicines.

No-one has said that everything will just stop, but the simple fact is we don't grow or produce enough throughout the year to supply our own needs, from there on it takes surprisingly little delay to create a shortage, shortage translates as price rises, like it or not there will be delays or alternatively we open the door to any and every producer from wherever and that will be a disaster for our own producers of anything and everything.

[said]

Daily Telegraph:
A "secret list"of companies receiving subsidies under the Common AgriculturalPolicy, disclosed for the first time today under freedom ofinformation rules, is dominated by big food processors andmanufacturers, led by Tate & Lyle, which received £127 millionin 2003-04.
The sum was more thanthe £111 million profit the company declared that year.
The list shows that themajor recipients of the £3.9 billion that the British taxpayer paysinto the CAP are big companies with little or no link with the land.


Principally, they aresugar and dairy processors, the top dozen of which received more than£10 million each, nearly five times more than any farming business.
One such firm, MeadowFoods, received £25 million, and Nestlé £11.6 million, but theothers in the top 10 are dwarfed by Tate & Lyle, which received£20 million more in 2003-04 than in the previous year.


Also released yesterdaywas the list of subsidies to 100,000 farmers and farming companies inEngland - ministers in Scotland and Wales will not disclose thisinformation.
Topping the list offarming companies was the Co-op's Farmcare, with £2.6 million ayear, and the largest subsidy going to a family farming business wasthe £1.6 million received by Strutt and Parker Farms.


The Vestey and Guinnessfamilies figured among the top 50, but so did the Royal Society forthe Protection of Birds and the National Trust.

[Desert Region]

No - you are wrong!...

Off topic, I know, but I think, said, you may have broken the poor Black Combe and Snaefell thread with whatever your last post was, as the last three posts on there have been unviewable ever since.

Was it a lengthy and multi-media heavy post?

[said]

Off topic, I know, but I think, said, you may have broken the poor Black Combe and Snaefell thread with whatever your last post was, as the last three posts on there have been unviewable ever since.

Was it a lengthy and multi-media heavy post?

I haven't a clue! I will have to check back. Thanks for that.

Just checked! Broken? Looks like a bomb hit the site! Can't open the last posts - I have been sabotaged.

[seivad]

I haven't a clue! I will have to check back. Thanks for that.

Just checked! Broken? Looks like a bomb hit the site! Can't open the last posts - I have been sabotaged.

Short of a battering ram, yesterday I tried every devilish moderating trick I can think of to get in there... nothing will work. Did you attach anything? C&P with embedded links?

[said]

Short of a battering ram, yesterday I tried every devilish moderating trick I can think of to get in there... nothing will work. Did you attach anything? C&P with embedded links?

How on earth can I remember that? I can't even remember what I did earlier today!

[local]

No-one has said that everything will just stop, but the simple fact is we don't grow or produce enough throughout the year to supply our own needs, from there on it takes surprisingly little delay to create a shortage, shortage translates as price rises, like it or not there will be delays or alternatively we open the door to any and every producer from wherever and that will be a disaster for our own producers of anything and everything.

So we have gone from delay-shortage to price rises.

What cataclysmic cause will there be for this presumably lengthy delay ?

[Alikado]

So we have gone from delay-shortage to price rises.

What cataclysmic cause will there be for this presumably lengthy delay ?

It was one of the the main reasons we joined in the first place, wagons were held up in both directions for checks, ferries were missed and food stuffs rotted.

[local]

It was one of the the main reasons we joined in the first place, wagons were held up in both directions for checks, ferries were missed and food stuffs rotted.

So what exactly is going to cause these presumably days of delays for food to rot ?

[Alikado]

So what exactly is going to cause these presumably days of delays for food to rot ?

Border inspections, in the 70's wagons were sometimes queued up for days,the Frogs were notorious, it was one of the main reasons for joining. I think you will find many of our hauliers start to base themselves on the other side of the Channel.

[salus.populi]

So what exactly is going to cause these presumably days of delays for food to rot ?

Taking back control of our borders

[Alikado]

Taking back control of our borders

It's not just us, it is the Dutch, Danish, Belguims, Germans, Spanish & the French.