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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamble View Post
    Simply -non EU migrants need to be able to support self and family and have a job.
    So do EU migrants. They can't just walk in here and claim benefits, as many seem to think.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/be...e-from-the-eu/

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  4. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    So do EU migrants. They can't just walk in here and claim benefits, as many seem to think.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/be...e-from-the-eu/
    I think you're wrong and here's proof from a bastion of truth and decency.

  5. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr B S Sniffer View Post
    I think you're wrong and here's proof from a bastion of truth and decency.
    If it wasn't for immigrants or benefit claimants, the Express and Mail wouldn't have anything to write about.

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  7. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    So do EU migrants. They can't just walk in here and claim benefits, as many seem to think.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/be...e-from-the-eu/
    It is not about benefits.

    EU migrants without means of support i.e looking for work or have a signature by an 'employer' to say they are 'employed' no matter how many hours that is are entitled to education and the nhs for all the family.

    Legally a child above the age of 5 remaining in the UK has to be in full time education.

  8. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    If it wasn't for immigrants or benefit claimants, the Express and Mail wouldn't have anything to write about.
    What about an in depth study of tax evading press barons?

    They could serialise it.
     

  9. #171
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    Yes, it's always the fault of the immigrant. Or the benefit claimant. Or poor sods on zero hours contracts. Anyone, in fact, rather than the fat cats avoiding and evading tax.

    Tax the highest earners. Raise corporation tax. Pay a living wage. Let the money go back into local business. Put limits on rogue landlords charging ridiculous rents. The only problem there is your highest earners, corporate cheats and rogue landlords are sitting in Parliament.

    Trickle down economy is utter horseshit. Blaming immigrants for a lack of services is horseshit. I wonder what the proposed £85 billion on HS2 could have bought in terms of public services? I wonder where all that prime estate is going to go when they scrap it?

    This government and their cronies are corrupt to the core. And taking us out of the EU, free from the constraints of Anti Tax Avoidance directives and such, will crush the poor in this country. If I thought for one second that poor people would gain anything at all from leaving the EU, then I'd be all for it. But it's just going to turn us into a tax haven where the lives of the plebs will look like something out of the film 'Peterloo'. £20 to see your GP or food. You decide.

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  11. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    Yes, it's always the fault of the immigrant. Or the benefit claimant. Or poor sods on zero hours contracts. Anyone, in fact, rather than the fat cats avoiding and evading tax.

    Tax the highest earners. Raise corporation tax. Pay a living wage. Let the money go back into local business. Put limits on rogue landlords charging ridiculous rents. The only problem there is your highest earners, corporate cheats and rogue landlords are sitting in Parliament.

    Trickle down economy is utter horseshit. Blaming immigrants for a lack of services is horseshit. I wonder what the proposed £85 billion on HS2 could have bought in terms of public services? I wonder where all that prime estate is going to go when they scrap it?

    This government and their cronies are corrupt to the core. And taking us out of the EU, free from the constraints of Anti Tax Avoidance directives and such, will crush the poor in this country. If I thought for one second that poor people would gain anything at all from leaving the EU, then I'd be all for it. But it's just going to turn us into a tax haven where the lives of the plebs will look like something out of the film 'Peterloo'. £20 to see your GP or food. You decide.

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  13. #173
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    The usual potty mouthed ill considered rant,

    tax someone anyone, tax those greedy high earners conveniently forgetting that includes head teachers, doctors,consultants and many people whose crime it seems is to have studied and worked hard.

    We don't need higher taxes we just need to collect from those who think its optional.

    The hard stark truth that immigrants don't bring housing and services with them is not a criticism of them it's just a fact and an inconvenient one for those who have an agenda which clashes with reality.

    The reality that the EU is not for the poor but more a cosy club for multinationals to exploit them.

    It says a lot that Tony Benn saw through it and his disciple Jeremy Corbyn, does that mean he/they wanted the poor to suffer, to turn the country into a tax haven for the rich ?

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    The usual potty mouthed ill considered rant,

    tax someone anyone, tax those greedy high earners conveniently forgetting that includes head teachers, doctors,consultants and many people whose crime it seems is to have studied and worked hard.

    We don't need higher taxes we just need to collect from those who think its optional.

    The hard stark truth that immigrants don't bring housing and services with them is not a criticism of them it's just a fact and an inconvenient one for those who have an agenda which clashes with reality.

    The reality that the EU is not for the poor but more a cosy club for multinationals to exploit them.

    It says a lot that Tony Benn saw through it and his disciple Jeremy Corbyn, does that mean he/they wanted the poor to suffer, to turn the country into a tax haven for the rich ?
    I quite enjoyed your post, don't be so hard on yourself.

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  16. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    Yes, it's always the fault of the immigrant. Or the benefit claimant. Or poor sods on zero hours contracts. Anyone, in fact, rather than the fat cats avoiding and evading tax.

    Tax the highest earners. Raise corporation tax. Pay a living wage. Let the money go back into local business. Put limits on rogue landlords charging ridiculous rents. The only problem there is your highest earners, corporate cheats and rogue landlords are sitting in Parliament.

    Trickle down economy is utter horseshit. Blaming immigrants for a lack of services is horseshit. I wonder what the proposed £85 billion on HS2 could have bought in terms of public services? I wonder where all that prime estate is going to go when they scrap it?

    This government and their cronies are corrupt to the core. And taking us out of the EU, free from the constraints of Anti Tax Avoidance directives and such, will crush the poor in this country. If I thought for one second that poor people would gain anything at all from leaving the EU, then I'd be all for it. But it's just going to turn us into a tax haven where the lives of the plebs will look like something out of the film 'Peterloo'. £20 to see your GP or food. You decide.
    I do not blame migrants for finding a perfectly legal way around the system.
    I blame the EU system of free movement and Schengen system.
    That is not blaming immigrants as you are discriminating between what you consider are 'better migrants' from Europe than Asian and African Continents.

  17. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    Yes, it's always the fault of the immigrant. Or the benefit claimant. Or poor sods on zero hours contracts. Anyone, in fact, rather than the fat cats avoiding and evading tax.

    Tax the highest earners. Raise corporation tax. Pay a living wage. Let the money go back into local business. Put limits on rogue landlords charging ridiculous rents. The only problem there is your highest earners, corporate cheats and rogue landlords are sitting in Parliament.

    Trickle down economy is utter horseshit. Blaming immigrants for a lack of services is horseshit. I wonder what the proposed £85 billion on HS2 could have bought in terms of public services? I wonder where all that prime estate is going to go when they scrap it?

    This government and their cronies are corrupt to the core. And taking us out of the EU, free from the constraints of Anti Tax Avoidance directives and such, will crush the poor in this country. If I thought for one second that poor people would gain anything at all from leaving the EU, then I'd be all for it. But it's just going to turn us into a tax haven where the lives of the plebs will look like something out of the film 'Peterloo'. £20 to see your GP or food. You decide.
    No - you are wrong! It is the higher earners who pay most tax in the UK. According to the Daily Telegraph:

    "Analysis of Government figures published yesterday shows that for the first time the richest workers, estimated as those earning more than £75,300 a year, will pay just over 50 per cent of the income tax collected by the Treasury."

    If it was not for wealthy people being in the UK - the alternative would be for everyone to be paid the same wages and everything would have to be distributed evenly. Which would mean that those who work harder and who are more educated would not benefit from their efforts. Would this be fair?

    I would say it would be fairer if people earned in accordance with the amount of effort given to the economy. This can only be done if everyone was working. People cannot be working until jobs are provided. Jobs cannot be provided until people open up businesses. People cannot open new businesses until they have sufficient money to do so. So some people have wealth to open up businesses, and employ staff to work for them - but in addition to giving people work so that they can earn money - you want these people to earn as much as the person who had the knowledge, and took the risks to set up the businesses. OK. So everyone is now on high wages - but employees do not work hard because they see lesser able people earning the same as they are. The business does not improve because employees would gain nothing more by thinking about improvements. There would be no competition and other companies that have a pay scale suddenly surge ahead, gaining more business, paying higher salaries, while the static wage business goes bust. There has got to be an imbalance of wealth.

    Would you want someone who could not be bothered to learn anything at school, has never bothered to work - to be paid the same wages as a highly educated/trained person who has worked all their life?

    The wealthy business people who protested about coming out of the EU, did so because they received huge grants from the EU for doing absolutely nothing! The wealthy were being paid for the amount of land they owned. EU taxpayers were paying for this. From the Guardian:
    "......the most regressive transfer of public money in the modern world. Farmers are paid by the hectare for owning or using land; so the more you have, the more you get. While in the UK benefits for poor people are capped at £20,000 (outside London), these benefits for the rich are uncapped. Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons."



  18. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamble View Post
    I do not blame migrants for finding a perfectly legal way around the system.
    I blame the EU system of free movement and Schengen system.
    That is not blaming immigrants as you are discriminating between what you consider are 'better migrants' from Europe than Asian and African Continents.
    But we aren't part of the Schengen system. But if we decide to re-join a few years down the road, we most certainly will be. Schengen, Euro and all. No exceptions with immigration as we were offered a few years ago. No preferential treatment. No exceptions.

    Not 'better' migrants. But if you're concerned about Islamic fundamentalists, they don't generally come from Italy or Greece. Plus there's that wonderful reciprocal system where we can go to other EU or EEA countries. Freely.

    There's a lot needs reforming in the EU. We can't do it from the outside.

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  20. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    But we aren't part of the Schengen system. But if we decide to re-join a few years down the road, we most certainly will be. Schengen, Euro and all. No exceptions with immigration as we were offered a few years ago. No preferential treatment. No exceptions.

    Not 'better' migrants. But if you're concerned about Islamic fundamentalists, they don't generally come from Italy or Greece. Plus there's that wonderful reciprocal system where we can go to other EU or EEA countries. Freely.

    There's a lot needs reforming in the EU. We can't do it from the outside.
    Italy-the favourite Country of entry for non EU migrants to the EU gives migrants full EU Citizenship after 2 years resident.

    Migrants are then free to move to all parts of the EU.
    That is why Bury has a large number of URDU speaking Italians.

    Alternatively migrants chose a country moving through Schengen
    until they find a Country which allows a community to build a Mosque (not Italy)and wear full Islamic dress in Public(not France)

    Or a Country where Compulsory School Education system starts from 4 years old(not Latvia or Sweden)

    Or the language to hard to learn ? (big choice there !)

  21. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    The usual potty mouthed ill considered rant,

    tax someone anyone, tax those greedy high earners conveniently forgetting that includes head teachers, doctors,consultants and many people whose crime it seems is to have studied and worked hard.

    We don't need higher taxes we just need to collect from those who think its optional.

    The hard stark truth that immigrants don't bring housing and services with them is not a criticism of them it's just a fact and an inconvenient one for those who have an agenda which clashes with reality.

    The reality that the EU is not for the poor but more a cosy club for multinationals to exploit them.

    It says a lot that Tony Benn saw through it and his disciple Jeremy Corbyn, does that mean he/they wanted the poor to suffer, to turn the country into a tax haven for the rich ?
    Perhaps if you weren't so trigger happy to go off ranting yourself, you might find some elements of common ground with other posters (like the bit I've highlighted above, which I'm sure the majority posting here would agree with) instead of treating most like adversaries.

    Everyone should pay their fair share ... I suppose the arguing comes from peoples definitions of what is fair.
    Last edited by AdmiralAckbar; 23/08/2019 at 02:42 PM.
    "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Firefly (TV Series)

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  23. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    But we aren't part of the Schengen system.
    not the 1st time you've mentioned this to H is it ...
    "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Firefly (TV Series)

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