Boris Plays a Blinder

[local]

OK tell me that we weren't told lies on very important aspects of Brexit, then just as an illustration of how stupid and totally uninformed our politicians were, read this, these comments were made and can be readily checked from many sources.

David Davis who was the head of negotiations with the EU, when it became clear that EU trade deals wouldn't simply transfer after Brexit, then came out with the sort of nonsense that would be funny if it wasn't so tragic, his "new" plan was to negotiate individual deals with individual countries within the EU, encompassing areas of importance to those countries.

For instance he thought that doing some sort of deal with Germany over cars and parts would bring a mutually beneficial agreement, with France the emphasis would be on wine and food, seemingly oblivious that the basis of EU trade deals was dealing with the EU as a whole.

You keep parotting this intellectual argument that I/we supposedly lost, I/we lost nothing, the settlement will come when/if we actually leave, if the economy and prosperity grow as leavers insist, then I will hold my hand up and say I lost, however I fear it is more likely to be "told you so" and we all lose.

Perhaps if you got to grips with the fact you did lose the intellectual argument your posts might have some validity.
Brush yourself down accept you lost, if Parliament had done that we would have concluded a deal.

[Alikado]

Perhaps if you got to grips with the fact you did lose the intellectual argument your posts might have some validity.
Brush yourself down accept you lost, if Parliament had done that we would have concluded a deal.

It's not about losing the argument etc now, the issue is that nobody trusts Boris not to change his mind and crash out with 'no deal', Rabb has made it abundantly clear that they wish to do away with all the employment / environmental protections.

[Little Londoner]

You keep parotting this intellectual argument that I/we supposedly lost, I/we lost nothing, the settlement will come when/if we actually leave, if the economy and prosperity grow as leavers insist, then I will hold my hand up and say I lost, however I fear it is more likely to be "told you so" and we all lose.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rvyn-king-says


Read second paragraph, I think he has his finger on the pulse of the economic argument and knows a tad more than QLocal contributors.

[Toodles McGinty]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rvyn-king-says


Read second paragraph, I think he has his finger on the pulse of the economic argument and knows a tad more than QLocal contributors.

I think we've already gone over the contributions of Mr King. His handling of the financial crisis was appalling. He admits as much himself.

Forbes: Mervyn King brings shame to an economics profession that was already limping

He's much quoted by Brexiteers. Unfortunately he was a crap boss of the BofE. Pretty much a reflection of how leave voters completely disregard the hard facts of the economics of Brexit in favour of the rainbow and unicorns of Glorious Little Britain leading the world.

[Toodles McGinty]

Perhaps if you got to grips with the fact you did lose the intellectual argument your posts might have some validity.
Brush yourself down accept you lost, if Parliament had done that we would have concluded a deal.

What is this 'intellectual argument' you keep waffling on about? That you think you've somehow 'won'?

51.9% of those who bothered to vote ignored most of the experts in favour of some deluded fantasy that Little Britain would float off to sunlit uplands. That isn't an intellectual argument, that's mass stupidity.

You need to get to grips with the fact that the rest of us don't and never will agree. You haven't won an 'intellectual argument'. You've been played by a small bunch of self -interested millionaires who want an unregulated tax haven. Google 'Britannia Unchained' and then tell me your glorious Brexiteer leaders have your best interests at heart.

[bensherman]

So today he wants to get Parliament to vote for a deal which he himself rejected a year ago.

For which no economic impact statement has been produced.

In three working days from submission; Maastrich was discussed for forty one.

Having further humiliated this country with his antics re the letter.

By a distance the worst prime minister of my lifetime. Which was wholly predictable. Possibly worse are the sycophants clinging to jobs speaking for him...presumably because they know anyone of any quality and integrity would not serve for him.

Yes, we are all fed up with how long it has taken. But that's down to the ambiguous nature of the vote, not the people trying to make sense of it since.

This is far, far too important for many years ahead to get stampeded into accepting anything just because of an arbitrary deadline.

[Alikado]

So today he wants to get Parliament to vote for a deal which he himself rejected a year ago.

For which no economic impact statement has been produced.

In three working days from submission; Maastrich was discussed for forty one.

Having further humiliated this country with his antics re the letter.

By a distance the worst prime minister of my lifetime. Which was wholly predictable. Possibly worse are the sycophants clinging to jobs speaking for him...presumably because they know anyone of any quality and integrity would not serve for him.

Yes, we are all fed up with how long it has taken. But that's down to the ambiguous nature of the vote, not the people trying to make sense of it since.

This is far, far too important for many years ahead to get stampeded into accepting anything just because of an arbitrary deadline.

[local]

Blimey who would have thought Boris would get Parliament to vote for his deal, still the Tea Bag hasn't hit the mug yet but it's going quite well.

As always the anti-democracy mob still hovers.
He was being optimistic about the timetable despite the fact most of it is the same.

Jeremie's offer no doubt included some stings.

[bensherman]

By the "anti-democracy mob" I assume you mean Rees-Mogg and co who were prepared to lie to prevent democratic scrutiny of what they were doing?

[local]

By the "anti-democracy mob" I assume you mean Rees-Mogg and co who were prepared to lie to prevent democratic scrutiny of what they were doing?

Sour grapes anyone, admit it you underestimated Boris.

Still my Tea Bag is dry not much to celebrate yet.

[said]

Sour grapes anyone, admit it you underestimated Boris.

Still my Tea Bag is dry not much to celebrate yet.

The Withdrawal Agreement - that was suddenly created after a couple of years of so called talks - was initially drawn up by TM's advisers and the EU. It was heavily weighted in favour of the EU. The WD that Boris Johston is promoting, is similar to that initial agreement - with four areas only changed.

There will be no Customs Union - in TM's WD there would have been. There will be a Free Trades Agreement, under which the UK will be able to operate its own trade without being locked into the EU's external tariffs.
The Political Declaration in which the UK had to align its rules to those of the EU, has been deleted from TM's WD.
The UK has the right to decide how and if they wish to respond to any invitation of the EU in regards to security defence.

The UK has the right to walk away with a no deal after the transition period if the EU tries to impose unacceptable terms on the UK.
BUT
The ECJ will still have the final say on any UK disputes - the clause that allows this has been strongly resisted by several other European countries, but the UK is expected to adhere to it. It could act to convert existing EU rules into the demand that the UK should follow them under the ECJ ruling.
The transition period is up to December 2020 - Johnston has stated that this is the limited date. Until then the UK is subject to all EU Policies and laws - but will have not say nor authority to vote in favour of the UK, against them. This could be very dangerous for industries like the financial services sector who could be subjected to rule changes - it may also affect the fishing industry that could suffer severe damage before we finally break away. There is no reason for this transition period - we have the Free Trade Agreement!

There was no figure placed on the amount of money that the EU says we owe them. TM signed a clause that such obligations are decided by the ECJ instead of by arbitration. The amount stated in the media was for £39 billion - it will probably be double that if not more.

The new agreement with respect to Northern Ireland, still means that NI will still remain under EU Laws, and the EU could still apply barriers.

Our fishing grounds will be subject to UK/EU agreement, with the UK giving quotas allowed until 2020.

It is not a good deal, but it is a lot better than TM's deal. There is no legal requirement to have a WD in order to leave the EU - far better would be a no deal. But for some unfathomable reason, most of TM's agreement is supposed to stay as it has been agreed upon

[2STEPS-IN-FRONT]

Has Boris ' Got Done By Brexit ' ?

[Normal]

Blimey who would have thought Boris would get Parliament to vote for his deal, still the Tea Bag hasn't hit the mug yet but it's going quite well.

As always the anti-democracy mob still hovers.
He was being optimistic about the timetable despite the fact most of it is the same.

Jeremie's offer no doubt included some stings.

Hello,

I don't think you quiet appreciate the vote he has lost. Because he wanted the debate timetable over 2 days, this meant there was no realistic amendments that could be posed and voted upon. Because he has lost that vote, this means the house will be able to make and vote on all the amendments that Boris doesn't want. Hypothetically speaking it could include - continuing with a customs union, or ensuring there was a confirmatory referendum for example for example.

He did say that if he lost the time table vote he was going to withdraw the bill in its entirety. I note now that he has weakened by backing down and saying it is now only paused.

He hopes that the EU will reject the extension, thus we will still leave on the 31st but with now no agreement in place. However he will lose that strategy of EU forcing the no deal scenario because Tusk has already said he will give the UK an extension, which means the houses will have ample time now to amend and vote on the deal. Therefore there is a very good chance the bill will be very different at the end of the process compared to what it is now.

[local]

The reality is there wasn't enough time to obstruct the bill or amend it to death for the anti-democracy extremists.

The new Brexit deal is essentially the old Brexit deal with a new chapter on the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland and a few key tweaks to the political declaration.

The main protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland runs to just 15 pages – 64 pages including the annexes – and restates the commitment to all the baseline elements on the Good Friday agreement, the common travel area and other rights contained in Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement of 2018* Guardian.

There are 288 Government MP's well today anyway.

And 650 MP's in total, if the opposition parties took on a part of the agreement each they could have scrutinised it easily and debated the important changes all night and all weekend.

Scrutiny and debate was a red herring.

Still its added more votes to Boris's election campaign.

Who in their right mind would have Labour anywhere near the upcoming deal negotiations, their team is completely out of their depth.

I would rather have the SNP despite disliking their argument they are at least consistent and coherent and appear to have a few brain cells.

[Lamparilla]

Sour grapes anyone, admit it you underestimated Boris.

The only thing I underestimated was the lengths that this self-entitled anti-democratic bully would go to in order to achieve his dogmatic "do or die by 31st October" policy for the sole purpose of saving face.

Not all tory MPs are independently wealthy (for example, our very own Mr Moore). Everything that Johnson proposes has a threat at the end - a tactic probably learned at Eton. They are voting with the government out of fear of losing their jobs, not because they agree with trying to force through a bill on the most important decision facing our country in a ludicrous 3 days.

If this kind of bullying and intimidation was carried out by someone like Mugabe, there would be outrage.