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Vote Conservative in Southport as Damien Moore respects the 2016 referendum result. We don't need a Brexit party candidate here as that will split the vote.
God help us.
No wonder the 2016 vote went as it did.
OF COURSE there is a cost of membership, although about half of what was claimed. It can't run on thin air.
And the correct figure is a tiny fraction of our government spending; for example less than half of what we pay to subsidise employed people whose employers do not pay them a living wage. Less than half of the amounts paid to private landlords so they can rent houses to people who would in more enlightened times be able to rent council houses.
And of course, we see daily now the COST of being out. For example the need to greatly increase the Border Force. In fact the money committed to now by Johnson's gang of inadequates purely to compensate for Brexit is equal to SIX YEARS MEMBERSHIP.
But that only scrapes the surface. Let's get on to VALUE. What we paid gave our firms free access to a single market without regulatory barriers in 27 countries and with 500m people. Every day out of that market will cost us jobs, and therefore tax revenues.
I can tell you, if you wish, of examples of small firms who have exported during our membership because it became so easy and who will stop now. I can give you an example of a fisherman whose market will disappear instantly.
On the VALUE front, one of the best investments we ever made.
So you believe that we can just carry on borrowing and spending money we don’t have. Somewhere along the way, these debts have to be repaid, but hey ho, as long as you aren’t affected, that’s ok.
Have you been asleep these past few weeks or do you believe everything the right wing press prints?
Boris has been throwing it round like confetti!
For starters just tell me how much Grayling wasted then tell me there's no money.
No, Damian is a member of the anarchist ERG group that disrespects all but the 'no deal' vested interests, once they get what they want they will soon return him to Asda packing shelves
Damian is doing what he promised to do - he has never wavered. He is standing up for the voting majority - at last an MP who does what he says he will do - so good on him!
The disturbing thing about the forthcoming General Election is the all consuming obsession with Brexit, I hope enough people think a little deeper and just remember that the EU didn't decimate our council services, have had no part in starving education, the NHS, our police force, the fire service, in fact all emergency services of funds.
The EU didn't instigate the on going Brexit farce, they didn't tell us to leave, the EU are not responsible for the failure of our alleged negotiators, the simple fact that we started the process without a clue as to the real problems nor any forward plan of how to proceed.
Now we have this strange naive belief that leaving the EU will be the end of our problems, when in fact that will be the start of our problems.
I am also very aware that Corbyn is not everyone's leader of choice, I can only hope that the people vote on policy rather than personality, Labour represent our best hope of the country being run for and on behalf of the people rather than the wealthy elite.
The disturbing thing about the forthcoming General Election is the all consuming obsession with Brexit, I hope enough people think a little deeper and just remember that the EU didn't decimate our council services, have had no part in starving education, the NHS, our police force, the fire service, in fact all emergency services of funds.
The EU didn't instigate the on going Brexit farce, they didn't tell us to leave, the EU are not responsible for the failure of our alleged negotiators, the simple fact that we started the process without a clue as to the real problems nor any forward plan of how to proceed.
Now we have this strange naive belief that leaving the EU will be the end of our problems, when in fact that will be the start of our problems.
I am also very aware that Corbyn is not everyone's leader of choice, I can only hope that the people vote on policy rather than personality, Labour represent our best hope of the country being run for and on behalf of the people rather than the wealthy elite.
Is is a coincidence that Jon-boi sounds like Lib Dem ppc John Wright and has spun up a number of threads without actually conversing other than in the first thread?
Out of all the parties surely the Lib Dem’s are the least tenable, especially in Southport given our last experience.
OF COURSE there is a cost of membership, although about half of what was claimed. It can't run on thin air.
And the correct figure is a tiny fraction of our government spending; for example less than half of what we pay to subsidise employed people whose employers do not pay them a living wage. Less than half of the amounts paid to private landlords so they can rent houses to people who would in more enlightened times be able to rent council houses.
And of course, we see daily now the COST of being out. For example the need to greatly increase the Border Force. In fact the money committed to now by Johnson's gang of inadequates purely to compensate for Brexit is equal to SIX YEARS MEMBERSHIP.
But that only scrapes the surface. Let's get on to VALUE. What we paid gave our firms free access to a single market without regulatory barriers in 27 countries and with 500m people. Every day out of that market will cost us jobs, and therefore tax revenues.
I can tell you, if you wish, of examples of small firms who have exported during our membership because it became so easy and who will stop now. I can give you an example of a fisherman whose market will disappear instantly.
On the VALUE front, one of the best investments we ever made.
Only idiots confuse cost and value.
OOh! Who has been taking notice of the media now? Or have you been taking note of all the EU published propaganda that swamps the internet? The fishermen of the UK, small to medium businesses and our own farmers welcome Brexit!
Small Business Co.uk states:
"The majority of UK SMEs that export internationally are more worried about President Trump’s “America First” trade policies and the risk of a global economic slowdown than Britain exiting the EU without a deal."
Farmers weekly reports: “Ipredicted some years ago that we would eventually be told what we canand can’t grow and that has now started to happen with theridiculous three-crop rule,” he says.
“Itis central control from bureaucrats who understand nothing aboutfarming.” Astraw poll conducted by FarmersWeekly lastmonth appears to support Mr Baker’s view. Out of 2,706 respondentsto the online survey, some 68% said the UK should leave the EU, withonly 23% saying the UK should stay. Just 9% of respondents wereundecided.
Changing Europe reported:
"Despite its small size relative to the rest of the UK’s economy, fishing has dominated the Brexit debate. Many in the fishing industry have long been critical of the EU’s Common Fisheries Policy (CFP).
Taking my political leanings aside, if I was a wavering Tory voter, I'd be looking for some stability in the leadership. That isn't nor never will be Johnson. The current Cabinet have shown no moral fibre whatsoever, as they've shown they'll flip beliefs at the drop of a hat. So that's tricky. As another poster said, the presence of the ERG lurking and pulling strings takes away any notion of them being a 'one nation' party. Austerity measures were cruel and unnecessary, and historically, despite protestations, the economy is better in other party's hands. They aren't finished as a party, obviously, but they do need a strong leader. I think they will get one soon, but soon enough for the next election is another matter.
The Lib-Dems haven't yet shown they'll fight for a cause. Brexit has mobilised them into some kind of stance, but there's still a distrust from their dalliance with the Tories. I wouldn't write them off, though. They'll probably end up in a coalition. Their membership is growing as both left and right are looking to an alternative.
UKIP? Defunct. Allying with the likes of Tommy Robinson? Really?
The Brexit Party? I understand why people voted for them in the EU elections, to a degree. If you've no particular interest in politics, or are easily swayed by snake oil salesmen, or are just quite angry because the world hasn't turned out the way you wanted. Or you actually think that immigrants are taking all the jobs. Or you have no clue how the EU works, but you just KNOW they are evil overlords who are taking the p**s out of this once proud isle. And the likes of Rupert Murdoch are standing up for the little people, then this is the party for you. There is no reason for this party to exist if we leave the EU, but don't worry, Farage will have another party, another vanity project along soon. He sucks on the teat of publicity. Without it he'd turn to dust like a vampire in sunlight. So leave or remain, he'll be back.
Labour? They've a history of economic stability compared to the Tories. They've said they'll stop Universal Credit. Will raise Corporation Tax. Will nationalise certain industries. But, from a lot of voter's point of view, they are led by a Commy terrorist sympathiser who won't sing the national anthem. Again, if you think the likes of Rupert Murdoch are on your side, this isn't the party for you.
The rest, l think are idealist. The Greens may well have a place in the future, as we're basically screwed on the climate front. But maybe a wasted vote overall.
Times like this I could happily move to Scotland.
You will need to move a darn sight further away than that if you want to escape British Political Parties. It is obvious from this Brexit issue that Parliament needs to be overhauled big time! Each of the MP's elected are out for themselves, not only do they receive healthy salaries from the Government, many are also involved in various business enterprises Worldwide and receive salaries from these. Their connections are often in contradiction of their duties in Parliament. For instance, several MP's are paid directly or indirectly from the EU itself - and they are expected to vote with the people of the UK against the EU. Obviously - MP's should not be associated with external affairs, they should be completely neutral and should be prepared to give up any such interests when being employed in Parliament. It should also follow that any MP elected in by their membership of a political party - should adhere to the leadership of that party for good or bad - that is for the electorate to decide - not any MP personally! In other words - MP's should be more accountable.
The House of Lords should comprise of traditional peerage, i.e those less likely to be attracted to monetary gratification. Those elected into peerage by a political party are automatically politically biased. If such pretentious peerages are to be maintained there should be an upper section in the House of Commons to accommodate them.
Damian is doing what he promised to do - he has never wavered. He is standing up for the voting majority - at last an MP who does what he says he will do - so good on him!
Please tell me you don't still believe the Tory BS that they are the party of law and order and military protector of the nation, in spite of the propaganda campaign, over the years and most certainly recent years the Tories have made more cuts to civil and military security than Labour have ever done.
When has Corbyn sided with or supported terrorists? Attempting to talk, discuss or negotiate with terrorists isn't the same thing, in every instance of agreement between terrorist factions, has involved politicians talking to terrorists and reaching some sort of agreement, but of course when it's Corbyn, he is obviously a sympathiser.
You will need to move a darn sight further away than that if you want to escape British Political Parties. It is obvious from this Brexit issue that Parliament needs to be overhauled big time! Each of the MP's elected are out for themselves, not only do they receive healthy salaries from the Government, many are also involved in various business enterprises Worldwide and receive salaries from these. Their connections are often in contradiction of their duties in Parliament. For instance, several MP's are paid directly or indirectly from the EU itself - and they are expected to vote with the people of the UK against the EU. Obviously - MP's should not be associated with external affairs, they should be completely neutral and should be prepared to give up any such interests when being employed in Parliament. It should also follow that any MP elected in by their membership of a political party - should adhere to the leadership of that party for good or bad - that is for the electorate to decide - not any MP personally! In other words - MP's should be more accountable. The House of Lords should comprise of traditional peerage, i.e those less likely to be attracted to monetary gratification. Those elected into peerage by a political party are automatically politically biased. If such pretentious peerages are to be maintained there should be an upper section in the House of Commons to accommodate them.
I can't but help think that those of "traditional peerage" will be primarily interested in preserving their lot.
Unfortunately there’s plenty of them about, mostly Labour voters.
Which is why you need to explain Corbyn's cunning plan to get rid of 'the army, the navy, the air force, MI5, Trident, armed police, the queen, immigration control, security, police, jobs, money and hope'. And which terrorists he's sided with against 'the west'?
You will need to move a darn sight further away than that if you want to escape British Political Parties. It is obvious from this Brexit issue that Parliament needs to be overhauled big time! Each of the MP's elected are out for themselves, not only do they receive healthy salaries from the Government, many are also involved in various business enterprises Worldwide and receive salaries from these. Their connections are often in contradiction of their duties in Parliament. For instance, several MP's are paid directly or indirectly from the EU itself - and they are expected to vote with the people of the UK against the EU. Obviously - MP's should not be associated with external affairs, they should be completely neutral and should be prepared to give up any such interests when being employed in Parliament. It should also follow that any MP elected in by their membership of a political party - should adhere to the leadership of that party for good or bad - that is for the electorate to decide - not any MP personally! In other words - MP's should be more accountable.
The House of Lords should comprise of traditional peerage, i.e those less likely to be attracted to monetary gratification. Those elected into peerage by a political party are automatically politically biased. If such pretentious peerages are to be maintained there should be an upper section in the House of Commons to accommodate them.
Once again, a Parliamentary democracy means they can vote for what they want. If they can't vote for what they want, why bother having them? What is the point of them debating issues in the Commons then voting according to their views? Just have a dictator who issues decrees and doesn't allow anyone an opinion. Or one that sacks them for expressing an opinion. Oh, wait...
As for MPs being neutral, that's great. Start with the ERG. I'm willing to bet the whole lot of them are tied to corporations and multinationals. You can read, so tell me you don't think it's a coincidence that Cameron called for the referendum a month after the tax laws were announced?
Which MPs are paid directly or indirectly from the EU? If we're talking 'outside interests', I'd bet that includes a hell of a lot more Tories than any other party.
And once again, you were happy they voted against May's withdrawal agreement, but not that they've voted against Johnson.
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Originally Posted by libraryguy
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