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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceam View Post
    Oh but it is.. EVERYTHING else is reversible. Brexit is history changing.

    Then you will be very disappointed - there cannot be an election on 14th October. Parliament makes its Queen's speech that day. You would need to have received your election papers by now - you haven't, so it is not happening. Takes longer than two weeks to organise an election. All companies, all industries in Europe and the UK have received instructions on a No Deal Brexit, new passports and driving licence additions are already available.
    Apart from those who gain substantial monetary benefits from the EU - few Remain supporters know why they want to remain. So yes, history changing - one of the best moves ever!





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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
    Put simply, vote for anyone except the Conservatives and get Corbyn. If you think Brexit is a disaster just wait for Comrade Corbyn to turn us into the next Venezuela.

    The parliamentarians who are causing the current farce are those who won't vote for a deal, won't vote for No Deal, won't agree to a General Election and have wasted the last 3 years arguing amongst themselves like petulant children. The government are trying to get us a decent deal and these self-interested undemocratic pocket-liners are frustrating them at every turn.

    True! Hence the ongoing farce in Parliament now.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post


    Yes, the type of place where services are cut, ex-servicemen are living on the streets, kids are starving, nurses and other public service workers are going to foodbanks, people with full time jobs need to claim benefits, removal of housing benefits from 18-21 year olds, the trebling of tuition fees to £9,000 a year, the scrapping of EMA and Legal Aid, the closure of hundreds of libraries, youth centres and women refuges, savage cuts to schools, arts, mental health, social care and local authority budgets, over a million workers on zero hour contracts, forcing the NHS to make £20 billion in savings – i.e cuts - by 2020, nearly 1.2 million people aged 65+ not receiving the support they need with essential daily living activities, Government debt now swelling by £64 million a day, 16 million people having less than £100 in savings, 1 in 5 adults suffering from mental health issues due to housing issues, more than 500,000 primary school pupils being taught in classes between 31 and 35 pupils, 130,000 preventable deaths due to austerity...etc etc.

    No we don't want that... oh, hang on a minute...

    Some people might think you've been brainwashed into thinking that Corbyn is a sinister figure, by predominantly foreign right wing billionaires.

    In fact, some people have actually proved it.

    Read that, it might make you feel a 'big girl's blouse'.

    You may not believe it - but it was Labour who first agreed to large numbers of people moving into the UK. Inititally it was thought they would increase their votes in elections. This put pressure on services, increased the volume of food imports creating higher prices etc., It was Labour who introduced Student Fees and later agreed to increase them. Again it was Labour who introduced privatisation to areas of the NHS. When Labour was in power, the NHS needed funds to maintain many of their establishments. Because lending money was at a very low rate - Labour persuaded the NHS that they could lend the money to spend on Buildings, services etc., which they did. The lending rate then increased meaning that the NHS struggled to repay the loans - they are still repaying these large loans now. Under Labour the NHS was spending money unwisely, the service was totally inefficient but expected more and more money from the Labour Government to prop it up instead of correcting the overspending. The Conservative Government tried to correct that. It was the Labour government who prevented many severely disabled people from getting benefits when they introduced a non medical agency to diagnose if people were fit for work or not. The Labour Party are financially supported by the Unions. the Unions obtain their funding from white collar workers - no longer the working classes! All Labour leaders are associated with the Fabian Society a Marxist movement who are financed by some of the largest banks.
    The number of suicides in the country id due to the limitations and control of working people. The start of this was in the 1950's and gradually continued up to the modern times where people are so regulated at work that they are unable to give any contributing input - they have to work as automatons without thanks, without appreciation and under control not management. Some companies are now correcting that and returning to a more relaxed situation in the workplace - output is far higher in such places, and it is hard to find employment in those companies because places are so popular.
    I am not affiliated to any political party - but an election now would put the conservatives in front, with the Brexit party close second. Hopefully, the present government have come to realise that austerity will not work - evidenced by the amount of money that they are putting into the NHS, education and crime now. Increasing the National Debt is no bad thing - we had far greater debts after the last World War. Look at the USA's national debt! Hell, China owns the USA. So long as it does not run out of control - it is fine.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    The Labour Party are financially supported by the Unions. the Unions obtain their funding from white collar workers - no longer the working classes!
    Do you actually believe (or even research) all the stuff you post on here?

    Too much to address on your previous post but will have to dispute your reference/definition of "working class"... there are numerous definitions of that phrase and interestingly I was quite surprised to find most of the ones I've just googled actually contain a number of potentially offensive stereotypes, particularly at the "lower" end.

    I grew up in the Thatcher years and experienced her divisive ideologies first hand. One thing that I observed was the subtle influential shift to make people in low to average paid jobs believe that they were now "better off" and were perhaps not "working class" but actually (albeit "lower", but still) "middle class"... indeed most modern definitions appear to have been influenced by and reflect this attitude. The "I'm alright Jack" and more so the "I'm better than them" attitudes are clear symptoms of that era... maybe those offensive stereotypes I googled earlier are actually subtle influencers to make people think they are in a different "class" to what they actually are.

    Historically though, it's a bit more simple...

    There will always be overlaps due to people's personal choices (and individuals financial situations) but generally, people either worked for someone else (working class), had people working for them (middle class) or don't need ever to work at all (upper class).

    You only have to watch an episode of any period drama (e.g. Poldark) to see portrayals of the clear historical divisions that existed.

    Indeed, I would go further and say anyone who HAS to work, to put food on the table and keep a roof over their families head is "working class" because, if they stopped working they may struggle to survive.

    It's also fair to say that overlaps are fluid, particularly where individuals (specifically small businesses) may either be particularly successful (and move up) or fall on hard times (and move down).

    So, aside from the fact you clearly overlooked the existence of so-called blue collar unions, I would contest your generalisation that Union funding is by so called "middle class" white collar workers as wildly inaccurate.

    Also, people join unions because they have a job and want to keep (or improve) their working conditions, and ultimately partake in the benefits that union membership gives. If you didn't have to work (i.e. not working class) then you wouldn't have to join a union would you...

    And back on topic (Tactical Voting) - why anyone who has to work to survive would vote Tory (or for other parties who enable(d) the Tories) is beyond me ... it's like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
    "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Firefly (TV Series)

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  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    You may not believe it - but it was Labour who first agreed to large numbers of people moving into the UK. Inititally it was thought they would increase their votes in elections. This put pressure on services, increased the volume of food imports creating higher prices etc.,
    What? Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of the EU. Of the EEC before. Nothing to do with Labour. Or the Tories, for that matter. It isn't even restricted to the EU. Enoch Powell invited Pakistani and Bangladeshi doctors and nurses to come to the UK in the early 60s. In the early days of our membership nobody wanted to come here. Our economy was in the toilet. And I'm no expert on this, but I'd assume that large volumes of anything drives prices down, not up.

    It was Labour who introduced Student Fees and later agreed to increase them. Again it was Labour who introduced privatisation to areas of the NHS. When Labour was in power, the NHS needed funds to maintain many of their establishments. Because lending money was at a very low rate - Labour persuaded the NHS that they could lend the money to spend on Buildings, services etc., which they did. The lending rate then increased meaning that the NHS struggled to repay the loans - they are still repaying these large loans now. Under Labour the NHS was spending money unwisely, the service was totally inefficient but expected more and more money from the Labour Government to prop it up instead of correcting the overspending.
    I agree with most of this. Labour started the gradual privatisation process in London rather than raise taxes to pay for decades of overspending. That and the student fees were a huge mistake, in my opinion. I don't have some bizarre notion that everything Labour does is wonderful.


    The Conservative Government tried to correct that.
    No, they didn't.


    It was the Labour government who prevented many severely disabled people from getting benefits when they introduced a non medical agency to diagnose if people were fit for work or not.
    Agreed. Another huge mistake.

    The Labour Party are financially supported by the Unions. the Unions obtain their funding from white collar workers - no longer the working classes! All Labour leaders are associated with the Fabian Society a Marxist movement who are financed by some of the largest banks.
    The Labour party is funded by the membership. Not saying that unions aren't donors, but the bulk of the finance is from members. It's easy to Google the facts. The Fabian Society isn't a Marxist movement. You've said this before and it's nonsense. The Fabian society exists to promote democratic socialism. It's entirely opposed to the revolutionary tactics of Marxism. Again, Google it.

    The number of suicides in the country id due to the limitations and control of working people.
    Are you insane? Suicide is complex, with a virtually limitless number of causes. One reason may well be people not being able to provide for their families, but that is one reason among a million. To blithely blame suicide to 'control of working people' is beyond ridiculous. I can only hope that anyone with a loved one who decided to take their own life, who might be reading this, understands you are clearly clueless.


    The start of this was in the 1950's and gradually continued up to the modern times where people are so regulated at work that they are unable to give any contributing input - they have to work as automatons without thanks, without appreciation and under control not management. Some companies are now correcting that and returning to a more relaxed situation in the workplace - output is far higher in such places, and it is hard to find employment in those companies because places are so popular.
    Can you give a couple of examples of these 'relaxed' workplaces? Because all I see are people struggling on zero hours contracts, having to claim benefits after working full time, and families on the breadline having to use foodbanks to feed their kids.

    Hopefully, the present government have come to realise that austerity will not work - evidenced by the amount of money that they are putting into the NHS, education and crime now.
    They aren't 'putting anything in'. Johnson is adding 20,000 extra police officers. Which would be entirely unnecessary had the government not cut 20,000 police officers. The money for the NHS was already there. It's just releasing funds they've had to cut from their budgets. Johnson is electioneering. None of this has happened yet, nor will it ever.

    Increasing the National Debt is no bad thing - we had far greater debts after the last World War. Look at the USA's national debt!
    Unless Labour did it. Tories have a magic money tree but Labour would drag the country into debt. And lots of BlueKippers would scream 'who's going to pay for it'. Double standards much?

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  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Then you will be very disappointed - there cannot be an election on 14th October. Parliament makes its Queen's speech that day. You would need to have received your election papers by now - you haven't, so it is not happening. Takes longer than two weeks to organise an election.
    True, but it's got nothing to do with time constraints making an election on Oct.14th logistically impossible.

    Has it escaped your notice that Johnson has tabled two motions for an early election, and has been defeated both times? The members who voted to block a no deal Brexit will not support an election before October 31st.

    Apart from those who gain substantial monetary benefits from the EU - few Remain supporters know why they want to remain.
    Oh please! The internet is awash with the reasons why people voted to remain.

    So yes, history changing - one of the best moves ever!
    How can you assert that it's the best move ever? It's not yet happened. Reserve your judgement until you leave, when the ramifications can be evaluated.

  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Hell, China owns the USA. So long as it does not run out of control - it is fine.
    Not that old chestnut again! While China does hold a considerable dollar amount of US debt, it's only around 5% of the total US debt. The US Federal Reserve owns three times more than China. The majority of US debt securities are owned by a varied mix of investors... including the ordinary Joe.

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username2016 View Post
    You sound like a Lib Dem desperate to claim votes, perhaps Jon Wright or one of his team?
    Have you received an answer, yet?

  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Region View Post
    Have you received an answer, yet?
    No, but it was always unlikely as the likes of Prasnee and Cherie Brandie were a bit lacking too when answering whether they were a councillor or not. Do think for political credibility and transparency the parties should declare these things.

  13. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceam View Post
    I'll be voting Lib Dem as they are the only ones that will do what I want and scrap this farce.

    Have you actually read their manifesto? A scan of their Constitution appears to have been written in heaven - until you really read it! It constantly conflicts with itself!

    "The Liberal Democrats’ vision for Britain is a country that has remained at the heartof a dynamic European Union. A country where everyone can afford somewhere tolive, in a safe, clean and friendly neighbourhood. So everyone can afford a house, can they? Everywhere is safe - while we have been in the EU, has it? (Rising crime, terrorism, vandalism, etc.,) Friendly neighbourhoods - have been broken up due to constantly changing residents!

    A country where high-quality healthand social care, good-quality childcare, lifelong education, reliable transport andclean air are all part of a contract between government and citizens. Forget about the costs! The UK already is one of the less polluted regions in Europe. A country witha new politics – taking on entrenched power and privilege and delivering a fair dealfor everyone. So remove all the large companies, tell all the wealthy people to either spread their wealth or get out of the country? The importance of the United Kingdom’s membership of the European Union hasnever been clearer.?? True! That is why the majority have opted to leave! The national humiliation of Theresa May’s Brexit puts so muchat risk – the NHS, our public services, jobs across the country, peace in NorthernIreland, the unity of the UK and our global reputation as a country that is confidentand outward-facing. The NHS is under immense pressure due to so many health tourists forgetting to pay, our public services are due to local government, thousands of jobs have been lost while in the EU - the EU has the greatest unemployment globally, peace in NI is no more at risk now than during our time in the EU. Theresa May doesn’t care about Remainers – and doesn’t care about those whovoted leave either. For almost three years she has been obsessed with trying to buyoff the right wing of the Conservative party.The deal she has put on the table shows just how damaging and costly Brexit willbe, in contrast to the lies peddled by the Leave campaign. This was taken almost directly from Chukka Umana's speech! It is also clear that manyof the reasons driving people to vote leave – worries about funding of the healthservice, anger at rising inequalities across the country, the feeling of being leftbehind – will not be solved by Brexit; indeed, they will all be worsened.The first two reasons are not those of Brexit supporters, since they concern our own government. Being left behind has already happened while under the EU. It is far too great a monster to be able to change quickly in response to market trading - we are already behind third world countries!

    OK! Enjoy your non farcical membership!

  14. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post


    Yes, the type of place where services are cut, ex-servicemen are living on the streets, kids are starving, nurses and other public service workers are going to foodbanks, people with full time jobs need to claim benefits, removal of housing benefits from 18-21 year olds, the trebling of tuition fees to £9,000 a year, the scrapping of EMA and Legal Aid, the closure of hundreds of libraries, youth centres and women refuges, savage cuts to schools, arts, mental health, social care and local authority budgets, over a million workers on zero hour contracts, forcing the NHS to make £20 billion in savings – i.e cuts - by 2020, nearly 1.2 million people aged 65+ not receiving the support they need with essential daily living activities, Government debt now swelling by £64 million a day, 16 million people having less than £100 in savings, 1 in 5 adults suffering from mental health issues due to housing issues, more than 500,000 primary school pupils being taught in classes between 31 and 35 pupils, 130,000 preventable deaths due to austerity...etc etc.

    No we don't want that... oh, hang on a minute...

    Some people might think you've been brainwashed into thinking that Corbyn is a sinister figure, by predominantly foreign right wing billionaires.

    In fact, some people have actually proved it.

    Read that, it might make you feel a 'big girl's blouse'.
    I would be more concerned about the USA's intention to invade the country for its oil!

    As for your other remarks, the UK is pretty generous over its Welfare Benefits in comparison to most other countries - and that is at a minimum. Some people's ideas of poverty mean not having a holiday every year, not being able to afford the largest TV or not being able to afford a car! The rest is media hype from journalists trying to prevent their publishers from an early grave.

  15. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    I would be more concerned about the USA's intention to invade the country for its oil!
    I'm not.

    As for your other remarks, the UK is pretty generous over its Welfare Benefits in comparison to most other countries - and that is at a minimum. Some people's ideas of poverty mean not having a holiday every year, not being able to afford the largest TV or not being able to afford a car! The rest is media hype from journalists trying to prevent their publishers from an early grave.
    What? What are you on about? You think that: "services are cut, ex-servicemen are living on the streets, kids are starving, nurses and other public service workers are going to foodbanks, people with full time jobs need to claim benefits, removal of housing benefits from 18-21 year olds, the trebling of tuition fees to £9,000 a year, the scrapping of EMA and Legal Aid, the closure of hundreds of libraries, youth centres and women refuges, savage cuts to schools, arts, mental health, social care and local authority budgets" etc etc

    is 'media hype'? You think these things haven't actually happened? Are you deranged? Pretty sure people going to foodbanks, working people, know exactly what poverty is.

    Oh wait, of course. You must subscribe to the Daily Heil view of benefit claimants. All 55 inch TVs and new 4x4 cars.

    You really do bend over and take whatever Murdoch or Harmsworth has to give, don't you?


  16. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username2016 View Post
    No, but it was always unlikely as the likes of Prasnee and Cherie Brandie were a bit lacking too when answering whether they were a councillor or not. Do think for political credibility and transparency the parties should declare these things.
    For the sake of putting a stop to speculation as to Jonboi's identity, he is not Jon Wright.

  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    I would be more concerned about the USA's intention to invade the country for its oil!

    As for your other remarks, the UK is pretty generous over its Welfare Benefits in comparison to most other countries - and that is at a minimum. Some people's ideas of poverty mean not having a holiday every year, not being able to afford the largest TV or not being able to afford a car! The rest is media hype from journalists trying to prevent their publishers from an early grave.
    Generous, The Trussell Trust handed out 1.2m food parcels last year, they account for about half of the food banks, so what is the real total?

  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    I would be more concerned about the USA's intention to invade the country for its oil!

    As for your other remarks, the UK is pretty generous over its Welfare Benefits in comparison to most other countries - and that is at a minimum. Some people's ideas of poverty mean not having a holiday every year, not being able to afford the largest TV or not being able to afford a car! The rest is media hype from journalists trying to prevent their publishers from an early grave.
    List of benefits within the EU, country by country.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...y-country.html

    We aren't the most generous, were we fall down is classifying people as employed far too readily and therefore eligible for in work benefits.

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PolicyUK EA RegistrationSell my scrap van in UKWashroom Services in TarletonSanitary bins quoteGarden Services in SouthportGarden Services in OrmskirkGarden Services in FormybGarden Services in TarletonUK Path GravelUK Path GravelsUK GravelUK GravelsUK Garden Path GravelUK Decorative GravelsUK Cotswold GravelUK Bulk AggregatesUK Mass AggregatesUK Aggregates SuppliersUK Aggregate SuppliersUK Bulk Bags AggregatesUK Bulk BagsUK Mot Type 1UK Mot Type 2UK Top SoilUK Building SandUK Grit SandUK Fine SandUK Play SandUK Top Dressing SandUK Silica SandUK Mersey SandUK Kiln Dried SandUK Plastering SandUK Crusher RunUK DustUK BallestUK HardcoreUK GritUK Horticultural GritUK Alpine GritUK LimestoneUK GraniteUK Cotswold ChippingsUK Golden FlintUK MoonstoneUK Pea GravelUK Cheshire PinkUK Yorkshire CreamUK Derbyshire Peak StoneUK Green BallastUK Autumn GoldUK Pink GravelUK Blue SlateUK Plum SlateUK Grey SlateUK Welsh SlateUK Play BarkUK Chip BarkUK Christmas TreesUK Xmas TreesUK Artificial TreeUK Christmas Decorations