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Originally Posted by Lamparilla
I agree - in its desire to create an empire, the EU created a complete economic imbalance between member states by admitting poor countries, resulting in mass migration, and you can't blame those who moved to places they perceived as lands of milk and honey. You only have to see things like 'Auf Wiedersehn Pet' to realise that British workers did it as well.
Whilst there were supposedly qualifying rules for admission to the EU, we all know that Greece submitted falsified information that was apparently never challenged.
Cyprus has the right idea - they just ignore the EU rules (e.g. against state-owned monopolies) that they don't like, but the EU keeps sending them money.
I still think that we should remain in the EU and work with other members to make it better and fairer, but I can understand why people voted to leave, albeit after being fed with lies by those fat cats who will profit from their private wealth no longer being subject to EU scrutiny.
There has been two types of migration, the none EU migrants that have come to Europe some of which have come to this country but not as many as many other countries and the EU migrants who have come to this country many because they want somewhere better because of the number of none EU immigrants in their own country, this has exasperated the issues in this country.
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Originally Posted by Alikado
There has been two types of migration, the none EU migrants that have come to Europe some of which have come to this country but not as many as many other countries and the EU migrants who have come to this country many because they want somewhere better because of the number of none EU immigrants in their own country, this has exasperated the issues in this country.
Yes but the important issue is one set come as a right without question the others are at least subject to some hurdles to overcome and can be sent away.
Migrants are important to us and a much smaller amount of them need to be encouraged and appreciated by us.
They need to be welcomed with state services that can cope and decent housing for them.
Some of our migrants are treated abominably with horrendous accommodation and exploitation a much smaller amount would be so much easier to support.
They should be treated as guests who might or could stay.
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Originally Posted by local
Yes but the important issue is one set come as a right without question the others are at least subject to some hurdles to overcome and can be sent away.
Migrants are important to us and a much smaller amount of them need to be encouraged and appreciated by us.
They need to be welcomed with state services that can cope and decent housing for them.
Some of our migrants are treated abominably with horrendous accommodation and exploitation a much smaller amount would be so much easier to support.
They should be treated as guests who might or could stay.
I support freedom of movement for EU citizens. With a couple of caveats. I don't believe those with a criminal record should be allowed to move freely, particularly with violent or sexual crimes. While this section is a tiny, tiny amount of immigrants, among millions who come here to work and build a decent life for themselves, who contribute towards society, I simply believe we have enough criminals of our own. I'd say the same for non-EU migrants.
I also think that if certain countries admit larger amounts of immigrants, then a larger amount of EU coffers should go towards the infrastructure of that country. It is a fact that immigration in general makes a country wealthier. The idea of immigrants coming here and claiming benefits straight away is nonsense. But it is fairly apparent that although our government gains from immigration, they don't spend a proportionate amount on the infrastructure to support them. Or at least there should be a directive to state that if a government benefits from immigration, they should invest accordingly. In schools, housing, the NHS etc.
For me, this is where remain and reform comes in. We gain so much from being in the EU, but reform is key.
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Originally Posted by local
Some of our migrants are treated abominably with horrendous accommodation and exploitation a much smaller amount would be so much easier to support.
They should be treated as guests who might or could stay.
I'm sure that people will remember the terrible tragedy of the Chinese cockle-pickers drowned in Morecambe Bay, who were exploited by inhuman gangmasters. None of those were EU migrants - whether they were illegal immigrants or whether they got here because of family members already in the UK I don't know, but I don't think we can blame EU membership for any of that.
It's our own immigration policies that needed serious reform, and I think a lot of that is being addressed. Angela Merkel showed that an 'open door' policy leads to social unrest and the rise of the far right.
But to want to leave the EU because of any of the above is, in my view, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
There are, of course, racists and xenophobes (as we know on this forum) who want to turn the clock back to pre-Roman days, or in fact days that never existed apart from in their own addled imaginations, but these people must be resisted.
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Having a free for all at Hotel UK has been a disaster mainly for the poor (as usual)
Most of us grew out of thinking an open door party is a great long term plan at university .
Catering well for people is something we should all strive to do.
The current mess fallout is as always picked up by the poor.
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Originally Posted by Lamparilla
I'm sure that people will remember the terrible tragedy of the Chinese cockle-pickers drowned in Morecambe Bay, who were exploited by inhuman gangmasters. None of those were EU migrants - whether they were illegal immigrants or whether they got here because of family members already in the UK I don't know, but I don't think we can blame EU membership for any of that.
It's our own immigration policies that needed serious reform, and I think a lot of that is being addressed. Angela Merkel showed that an 'open door' policy leads to social unrest and the rise of the far right.
But to want to leave the EU because of any of the above is, in my view, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
There are, of course, racists and xenophobes (as we know on this forum) who want to turn the clock back to pre-Roman days, or in fact days that never existed apart from in their own addled imaginations, but these people must be resisted.
It is not so much the Immigration Policies that need an overhaul it is the running of the Immigration Services that need sorting out. Our Borders at best could be described as a sieve, they need beefing up and more checking of wagons an goods entering the country together with checks on everyone entering the country and more raids on factories, farms, shops etc to check peoples status. It will all cost money but once people hear that spending their life savings to get here illegally is not a good investment.
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Originally Posted by said
That supports what a Polish guy told me. He said that his parents wish they were still in a dictatorship - it was far better than the EU!
Considering it was that same dictatorship which sparked the Solidarity movement, which in turn lead to the overturning of that dictatorship, I find that a surprising comment.
Know you can't reply at the moment, gives you time to dream up a sensible answer, I'll wait.
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You could always take up knitting.
The comfort of an authoritarian system isn't a new phenomenon it is well reported how many Russians hark back to the communist era before the back scratching asset stripping corruption that reigns now.
Look how many turned out to praise the ghastly Mugabe.
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