Bollox To Democracy

[said]

noticed "Local" liked the above ... probably trigger happy and clicked Like after reading the first 5 words, missing the irony of the last 10 !!!

Possibly - but ironically, the way it is worded, could just as well suit the situation today. People voted, and so far have not had a democratic result (undemocratic) Just as was posted Liberal vote, revoke article 50 - nothing happens = undemocratic! Same thing!

[said]

All of which has absolutely no relevance to my comment, which was a rebuttal of Said's contention that Heath lied to "persuade the people to join up"


I don't have to imagine. In 1973 I was 26 years of age and living in the UK. As I said in another post, had there been a referendum on whether or not to join, I would probably have voted against it.

We may not have had the internet then, and the resulting social media sites. However, as you can imagine, it dominated the print media and TV. Politicians always gild the lily when presenting their position. Left/right wing media does likewise. The big difference from back then, is the huge volume of disinformation posted on today's social media sites. I don't think it helped a lot of people to arrive at an informed decision.

That is plain daft! The whole electorate were faced with the same information - how is it that some managed to understand and discern the facts while others did not? and don't you think it is rather weird that those who won the referendum, have not sobbed and said "But I did not understand!" They understood, that is why they won.

[local]

"You were only well informed when you voted to remain"

I think this goes to an earlier post I made about the open assault on voters promulgated by some of our politicians, it is a very sad indictment of the depths the anti-democracy extremists will sink to.

It is divisive and disruptive to the fabric of our society, they have created huge division and lasting damage for years now.

Again I applaud the restraint shown by the leave voters who have suffered relentless attack and provocation.

[silver fox]

"You were only well informed when you voted to remain"

I think this goes to an earlier post I made about the open assault on voters promulgated by some of our politicians, it is a very sad indictment of the depths the anti-democracy extremists will sink to.

It is divisive and disruptive to the fabric of our society, they have created huge division and lasting damage for years now.

Again I applaud the restraint shown by the leave voters who have suffered relentless attack and provocation.

Restraint???? You're having a laugh surely, the vast bulk of hate and vitriol has come from leavers.

Even you can't possibly deny that the reality of Brexit, particularly the idea of no deal Brexit, is a very far cry from the leave campaign, that virtually all the things leavers complain about are actually within this country courtesy of our own useless government.

[local]

Restraint???? You're having a laugh surely, the vast bulk of hate and vitriol has come from leavers.

Even you can't possibly deny that the reality of Brexit, particularly the idea of no deal Brexit, is a very far cry from the leave campaign, that virtually all the things leavers complain about are actually within this country courtesy of our own useless government.

No entirely serious, from day one an insidious attack on millions of British people has been undertaken by the sore losers.

Obnoxious pseudo scientific reports on the socio-economic classes of leave voters were churned out by the self appointed arbiters.

The remain supporting media looked for any tattooed stereotype to interview who they thought looked and sounded a little less educated.

Hardly a minute went past without accusations of xenophobia and racism in our media.

Today it continues with endless accusations of lies and deception.

The restraint shown by those who have had the most valuable thing anyone has in a democracy, their winning vote outcome stymied is extraordinary, contrast it with the baying mobs filling our streets.

They are so self obsessed that the attack on democracy and our children's faith in it passes them clean by.

Without confidence in a votes outcome what is the point of voting ?

They should be ashamed of themselves but you can bet they aren't.

[AdmiralAckbar]

No entirely serious, from day one an insidious attack on millions of British people has been undertaken by the sore losers.

Even when you attempt to take the moral high ground from your ivory tower, you just can't help yourself can you ...

[local]

Even when you attempt to take the moral high ground from your ivory tower, you just can't help yourself can you ...

Again you make my point in spades.


Bad losers, sore losers whatever the title its entirely apposite.

it might be uncomfortable for you to have it laid out, but Mcenroe style tantrums for three and a half years whilst the opponent stands by calm and dignified sums up the situation very well.

[Ceam]

Sore losers, LOL how old are you? Because comments like that make you appear to be about 10 years old.

Fact is there is hostility on both sides, As there was always going to be, My guess is it's going to get a lot worse. I'll be ready to stand up for what I believe.

[AdmiralAckbar]

No entirely serious, from day one an insidious attack on millions of British people has been undertaken by the sore losers.

Even when you attempt to take the moral high ground from your ivory tower, you just can't help yourself can you ...

Again you make my point in spades.

Bad losers, sore losers whatever the title its entirely apposite.

it might be uncomfortable for you to have it laid out, but Mcenroe style tantrums for three and a half years whilst the opponent stands by calm and dignified sums up the situation very well.

... and you sir/madam, make my point in spades too (and in Super Big, just for you)!

Calm and (particularly) dignified - lol ... anything but !

One thing I will add though, about spades seen as you mentioned them - when you're stuck in a hole, best advice is to stop digging.

[AdmiralAckbar]

Whooops...

https://order-order.com/2019/09/17/e...electoral-law/

[Toodles McGinty]

Calm and (particularly) dignified - lol ... anything but !

'Calm and dignified'? Now that is funny. I posted a video of the 'Calm and dignified' Brexiteers. I'd be willing to wager quite a lot that 90% of them are also 'Tommeh Robinson' supporters too.

And just as the Yaxley-Lennon fan boys can't quite get it into their thick skulls that his actions could have damaged a case against a bunch of perverts, Brexiteers can't quite get it into their heads how damaging leaving the EU would be.

Let's face it, the powers that be have been trying for 3 years. Different negotiators. Yet still can't find a way out that won't cause harm. Which suggests there isn't any way of leaving that won't cause harm. If there was, we'd have done it.

Oh, but it's the EU that's being awkward, they cry. Well I suppose they've a duty towards the 27 remaining countries, rather than the one that's being a complete PITA. I'm sure they are heartily sick of us and would like nothing better than to see us go.

Yet we keep coming back to the same stumbling blocks that we can't go over, through or round. If we break the Good Friday Agreement, we're screwed internationally. If we can't broker a trade deal with the EU, we're screwed. If we can't sort out fishing rights, we're... well you get the idea. It goes on and on.

They've tried. Johnson doesn't want a deal. We all know why. The ERG don't want a deal. Same reason. No deal will damage the country. The wrong deal will damage the country. So how long has this debacle got to run before people accept it? There is no way of leaving the EU that will see us better off, whether it's in 2 years or 10.

[bensherman]

Daring comment

I ADMIRE the EU in standing up for Ireland, as one of its members. And I admire them for standing up for the Good Friday Agreement, which we spent 25 years trying to create and which has saved thousands of lives.

An agreement which we were apparently prepared to dump in pursuit of self-immolation.

[said]

Jo Swindle and the oxymorons have finally lifted their pretence of respecting democracy with the revoke article 50 vote at their party conference.

The two faced ones were trying to con the public with their confirmatory second vote lies which some shallow thinkers fell for but now their off the fence and wish to rip up the countries and Parliaments votes.

Another wave of anti-democracy extremists show their colours .

The spirit of Putin and Mugabe will hang over our looming general election.

‘Tony Blair can ****** off & die’: Lib Dems party like it’s 2003 with controversial singalong
Members of the Liberal Democrats have been caught singing “Tony Blair can ****** off and die” at an annual karaoke night during their party’s conference in Bournemouth, prompting both praise and anger on social media.
Sep 17, 2019 11:23

[Toodles McGinty]

‘Tony Blair can ****** off & die’: Lib Dems party like it’s 2003 with controversial singalong
Members of the Liberal Democrats have been caught singing “Tony Blair can ****** off and die” at an annual karaoke night during their party’s conference in Bournemouth, prompting both praise and anger on social media.
Sep 17, 2019 11:23

Not in the best taste, but nobody cares. Well, Tony Blair might. Half the country will agree, the other half will just wait for the next election and play it on a loop. And Ms Swinson will be squirming on the Andrew Marr show, which is always entertaining to see.

[seivad]

Daring comment

I ADMIRE the EU in standing up for Ireland, as one of its members. And I admire them for standing up for the Good Friday Agreement, which we spent 25 years trying to create and which has saved thousands of lives.

An agreement which we were apparently prepared to dump in pursuit of self-immolation.

It's an issue that should have been taken into consideration by Cameron before holding a referendum. Any politician worth his or her salt would have foreseen that in a clean break from the EU, the Irish border was always going to be a problem. Possible solutions to the problem should have been designed and assessed beforehand. Cameron's arrogance in believing that the country would vote to remain has caused so many problems, I doubt that any analysis took place before his self serving referendum.

The border problem isn't going to go away. At present there's no feasible alternative. Technology may be able to solve it, but that's years away. Without the Irish backstop, Parliament would have passed May's withdrawal deal, and you would be discussing your future relationship, including an EU/UK trade deal. Instead you're still stuck in the mire.

Apparently Johnson's team presented May's WD, and just crossed out the Irish backstop section. Yeah, that's going to do it