Cancel Brexit ?

[Toodles McGinty]

Your going to have to mix with some younger people instead of just living vicariously through them,

Ghost-read
To gather information from forums or community websites while not being a member to the site or having a screen name and not participating in the discussion.
I ghost-read here often enough that I decided to sign up last week.
#scan#discuss#observe#sneek#participate

He's been a member for over 3 years.

Which means it is just 'reading' then. Not 'ghost reading'.

There are lots of threads I read but don't comment on.

Reading. There's nothing 'ghost' about it.

[Toodles McGinty]

It appears it is you that has the blinkers on, nothing anyone says will you listen to as you have already made up your mind.

You're wrong, actually. I was quite pro-Brexit initially. As I've said several times, the rise of the far right in Europe made me wonder if we wouldn't be better off out.

Since then it has become blindingly obvious that as a country, and personally (not being a billionaire), that there is no area of the economy that is better off outside the EU. There is no area of worker's or Human Rights, no area of security, no area of research, no area at all that would improve being out of the European Union.

We have sovereignty. We have our own laws. We have a single market. We have free trade. We have freedom of movement.

We were the sick man of Europe before we joined. We gained massively from being in the Union. The ills that befall the average person, the homelessness, the foodbanks, the poverty, it is all down to the government, not the EU.

But believe me, I did listen. Just not to the likes of self serving liars and demagogues such as Farage or the ERG. It is Brexiteers that are blinkered. Remainers know exactly what being a member of the EU means. As one rabid, drooling Brexiteer said on QT last night 'nobody knows'. Over and over 'nobody knows'. She didn't know what exiting the EU would mean. She just knew she wanted it. There are several words I could use for someone like that. Intelligent isn't one.

[said]

You're wrong, actually. I was quite pro-Brexit initially. As I've said several times, the rise of the far right in Europe made me wonder if we wouldn't be better off out.

Since then it has become blindingly obvious that as a country, and personally (not being a billionaire), that there is no area of the economy that is better off outside the EU. There is no area of worker's or Human Rights, no area of security, no area of research, no area at all that would improve being out of the European Union.

We have sovereignty. We have our own laws. We have a single market. We have free trade. We have freedom of movement.

We were the sick man of Europe before we joined. We gained massively from being in the Union. The ills that befall the average person, the homelessness, the foodbanks, the poverty, it is all down to the government, not the EU.

But believe me, I did listen. Just not to the likes of self serving liars and demagogues such as Farage or the ERG. It is Brexiteers that are blinkered. Remainers know exactly what being a member of the EU means. As one rabid, drooling Brexiteer said on QT last night 'nobody knows'. Over and over 'nobody knows'. She didn't know what exiting the EU would mean. She just knew she wanted it. There are several words I could use for someone like that. Intelligent isn't one.

Dream on! 'Brexiteers that are blinkered...' Yeah, well - we were not the 'sick man of Europe' as the media published - every country experiences down turns in its economy from time to time, and the UK was just turning that corner. This is evident by the fact that the UK' s economy grew faster than any other European economy just after we joined the EU.

Worker's Rights? I seem to recall having Sundays off and a half day in the week off. I also remember more companies being closed for a week at Christmas and shop staff working only 9 - 5pm. Equal pay for men and women? Fair enough if the women have got as much muscle to lift heavy items without having to rely on their male counterpart! It also seems that women want this both ways. Women are complaining that their pensions are now being paid at a later date and they are protesting! But it is equal rights! Men have always had to wait until later for their pensions. Maternity/Paternity leave occurs more in large companies, smaller companies cannot afford to retrain someone and then dismiss them after a year, so there are now fewer jobs for women of child bearing age. Another misleading claim by the media!

Human Rights? Who has a priority to human rights? Is it an immigrant who claims his human right not to be sent back to his own country after robbing someone in the UK? Or is it the victim's right to be allowed to move unhindered in his own country? They both have Human Rights and very often one's human rights prevents another from having his! Brainchild of the EU!

Areas of Security? Correct me if I am wrong - but how many terrorist attacks has the UK experienced WHILE we are in the EU? Some protection there, wasn't it?

Single Market? The UK made far greater profits last year by trading out side the single market.
Free trade - any tariffs imposed by any other country can be reciprocated.
Research Programmes receive very little from the EU. These programmes are and always have been financially supported by UK businesses. Although, for the bit of money the EU put into it, every new concept somehow or other belongs to the EU. That is not fair!

The number of homeless on the streets is due to illegal drug misuse, Alcoholism, Gambling habits, Mental health problems and Freedom of Movement where foreign people cannot afford to maintain themselves. The volume of drugs and firearms to the UK has increase due to the ease with which people can cross the borders from Europe. Not all borders are secure and those that are more so, do not have the same checks as before the Freedom of Movement.

While you are looking through your rose tinted spectacles - get this BBC report:

Analysis [IMG]file:///C:/Users/joan/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image003.png[/IMG]By Chris MorrisBBC News, Brussels

This report has not been without controversy. Its release was delayed for months, and some countries were critical of the European Commission for interfering in areas which they believed were none of its business.
Originally, the report was also supposed to have included a chapter assessing corruption within EU institutions as well as within member states. But that idea was dropped.
Nevertheless the figures revealed will certainly raise some eyebrows - Cecilia Malmstroem described the scale of the problem as breath-taking.
The commission's estimate that corruption is costing the EU economy about 120bn euros - the size of the EU's annual budget - could well be a conservative one. Other experts believe the real figure is probably higher.
One thing is clear though - a continent that is trying to put years of economic crisis behind it needs to do a better job in combating corruption.
"The political commitment to really root out corruption seems to be missing," she complained

The EU has an anti-fraud agency, Olaf, which focuses on fraud and corruption affecting the EU, is understaffed and underpaid.
Organised crime groups have sophisticated networks across Europe and the EU police agency Europol says there are at least 3,000 of them.
Bulgaria, Romania and Italy are particular hotspots for organised crime gangs in the EU, but white-collar crimes like bribery and VAT (sales tax) fraud plague many EU countries.
Last year Europol director Rob Wainwright said VAT fraud in the carbon credits market had cost the EU about 5bn euros

Like - who wants to be paying out more and more in membership fees for a service that is completely cr..p! Well, of course there are some, like those who think supporters of Brexit don't know anything!

[local]

He's been a member for over 3 years.

Which means it is just 'reading' then. Not 'ghost reading'.

There are lots of threads I read but don't comment on.

Reading. There's nothing 'ghost' about it.

Nice try but no banana you wrote;

Nurse has forgotten your meds, hasn't she?

BTW, what is 'ghost reading'? I know ghost writing is when somebody else does it for you. Is 'ghost reading' the same.


So now you know what it means .

Just accept it as a learning curve all those young peoples futures you keep telling us are being destroyed perhaps you better talk to a few bright ones first.

You'll be amazed.

[Toodles McGinty]

Nice try but no banana you wrote;

Nurse has forgotten your meds, hasn't she?

BTW, what is 'ghost reading'? I know ghost writing is when somebody else does it for you. Is 'ghost reading' the same.


So now you know what it means .

Just accept it as a learning curve all those young peoples futures you keep telling us are being destroyed perhaps you better talk to a few bright ones first.

You'll be amazed.

Oh Guuurrrl! You're so on fleek! Stop talking bollocks. I asked what 'ghost reading' is. Turns out it is 'reading'. Just 'reading'. Get over it and stop trying to score pathetic points, you crank.

[Toodles McGinty]

Dream on! 'Brexiteers that are blinkered...' Yeah, well - we were not the 'sick man of Europe' as the media published - every country experiences down turns in its economy from time to time, and the UK was just turning that corner. This is evident by the fact that the UK' s economy grew faster than any other European economy just after we joined the EU.

Bull. We were desperate to join since the Treaty of Rome. De Gaulle blocked us. As much as you'd like to change history to make out we were doing Europe a huge favour by joining, it isn't going to happen.

Worker's Rights? I seem to recall having Sundays off and a half day in the week off. I also remember more companies being closed for a week at Christmas and shop staff working only 9 - 5pm. Equal pay for men and women? Fair enough if the women have got as much muscle to lift heavy items without having to rely on their male counterpart! It also seems that women want this both ways. Women are complaining that their pensions are now being paid at a later date and they are protesting! But it is equal rights! Men have always had to wait until later for their pensions. Maternity/Paternity leave occurs more in large companies, smaller companies cannot afford to retrain someone and then dismiss them after a year, so there are now fewer jobs for women of child bearing age. Another misleading claim by the media!

Oh good. Another misogynistic rant. We have equal rights. Have done for decades. Get back to your lip sewing, murder fantasies and get over it.

Human Rights? Who has a priority to human rights? Is it an immigrant who claims his human right not to be sent back to his own country after robbing someone in the UK? Or is it the victim's right to be allowed to move unhindered in his own country? They both have Human Rights and very often one's human rights prevents another from having his! Brainchild of the EU!

Human rights cover a massive range of situations. Cherry picking one doesn't help your argument. It makes you look desperate.

Areas of Security? Correct me if I am wrong - but how many terrorist attacks has the UK experienced WHILE we are in the EU? Some protection there, wasn't it?

Idiot. The vast majority of terrorist attacks on the UK mainland have occurred because of the Troubles. After that they've mainly happened since our involvement in the Iraq war and our involvement in the Middle East. Not because of our membership of the EU.

Single Market? The UK made far greater profits last year by trading out side the single market.

We don't trade as a country outside the EU. We trade as a member of the EU. Regardless of where in the world we trade with, we trade as a part of the EU as a whole. We don't have side deals with Outer Mongolia, the Pitcairn Islands or anywhere else.

Free trade - any tariffs imposed by any other country can be reciprocated.

We've been over tariffs a million times on here. Seivad has explained it in great detail. Is it too complicated for you? Here's a 'tariffs for dummies' explanation.

Research Programmes receive very little from the EU. These programmes are and always have been financially supported by UK businesses. Although, for the bit of money the EU put into it, every new concept somehow or other belongs to the EU. That is not fair!

Citations?

The number of homeless on the streets is due to illegal drug misuse, Alcoholism, Gambling habits, Mental health problems and Freedom of Movement where foreign people cannot afford to maintain themselves. The volume of drugs and firearms to the UK has increase due to the ease with which people can cross the borders from Europe. Not all borders are secure and those that are more so, do not have the same checks as before the Freedom of Movement.

The number of homeless has risen due to austerity. It's risen due to cuts to an already barely existent mental health service. Nothing to do with the EU. You're conflating domestic problems with membership of the EU to suit your weird agenda.

While you are looking through your rose tinted spectacles - get this BBC report:

Analysis [IMG]file:///C:/Users/joan/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image003.png[/IMG]By Chris MorrisBBC News, Brussels

This report has not been without controversy. Its release was delayed for months, and some countries were critical of the European Commission for interfering in areas which they believed were none of its business...
...
Like - who wants to be paying out more and more in membership fees for a service that is completely cr..p! Well, of course there are some, like those who think supporters of Brexit don't know anything!

Garbled nonsense without links or verification. If you were attempting to post an image, it says nothing apart from your using 'Joan's' computer.

We've already covered the value of EU membership. That such a gigantic organisation has people on the make is hardly surprising - look at the expenses scandals with our own MPs. How Theresa May's husband's company landed plumb government contracts, etc etc. It happens, sadly.

[seivad]

Garbled nonsense without links or verification. If you were attempting to post an image, it says nothing apart from your using 'Joan's' computer.

It’s a Microsoft Office temp file. Said must have C&Pd text from the source he got his information from to a Word document. When the text was then C&Pd from Word to the forum, it also copied the code from the HTML clip. It could have been avoided had the text been copied as plain text.

BTW, Said, tell Joan C I said hi.

[silver fox]

As we give £39bn to the EU EACH MONTH then £66bn we have lost over 3 months pales into insignificance.
As for cuts to our services Inc border control then I'm not sure how this has helped modern day slavery continue to be. Those coming here are doing so legally, they have every right to be here and therefore would not be stopped even if we had more border control. And that is the problem, because we have a lenient attitude as to who comes here as part of deals brokered with the EU then we are less able to prevent people trafficking.
I am well aware that we have decided our own rules as to what the pensionable age for women is. What I did write is that it is slightly galling that we as a country cannot afford to keep the status as it was for pensions whilst sitting watching MEPs cream off billions to their own private pension pots

May I ask where the hell do you get those figures from? the current phase of contribution up to 2020 are £8.9billion net PA, also the average in research grants runs from £2.3billion up to £3.5billion PA which at worst our net contribution to the EU stands at £6.6billion PA, my figures quoted from the ONS, where the hell do you get £39billion per month?

Most if not all these underpaid and exploited workers are not here legally at all, simply having free movement of EU citizens is not the same as free movement of workers, certainly EU citizens can freely apply to work in the UK, but all too often this isn't the case, far too many of these low paid workers are supposedly employed by the "agency or gangmaster" not whoever they actually work for, people trafficking is illegal anywhere within the EU, but our border checks are so sparse that far too many sail through, again not the fault of the EU and please explain the numbers of non EU citizens entering the country, non EU immigration has been consistently higher than immigration from the EU, I suppose the EU gives free entry to just anyone

[local]

Oh Guuurrrl! You're so on fleek! Stop talking bollocks. I asked what 'ghost reading' is. Turns out it is 'reading'. Just 'reading'. Get over it and stop trying to score pathetic points, you crank.

You flail around with your usual bit of name calling its your classic defense mechanism.

[Alikado]

COMMENT in The Standard just about sums it up.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a4259316.html

[Toodles McGinty]

COMMENT in The Standard just about sums it up.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a4259316.html

I read a tweet from a Brexshiteer recently that stated 'I don't care if I have to live on bread, as long as we leave the EU'.

Handy really, as it's about the only thing we don't need to import.

Just highlights the rabidity of the average leave voter: I'd rather harm myself and others as long as we Get Brexit Done. I'd rather we were much, much worse off than remain in the EU. Why? Democracy!

Insanity. The only positive is that these zealots are dying off or coming to their senses, so maybe with a second referendum, we won't need to, as that idiot put it, 'live on bread'.

That's assuming there is no fuel shortage, to get the bread to the shops and get the bakery workers to work....

[said]

It’s a Microsoft Office temp file. Said must have C&Pd text from the source he got his information from to a Word document. When the text was then C&Pd from Word to the forum, it also copied the code from the HTML clip. It could have been avoided had the text been copied as plain text.

BTW, Said, tell Joan C I said hi.

I would if I knew who it was. I don't have Windows office on my computer. I did not copy and paste - the article was sent to me.

[said]

Bull. We were desperate to join since the Treaty of Rome. De Gaulle blocked us. As much as you'd like to change history to make out we were doing Europe a huge favour by joining, it isn't going to happen.



Oh good. Another misogynistic rant. We have equal rights. Have done for decades. Get back to your lip sewing, murder fantasies and get over it.



Human rights cover a massive range of situations. Cherry picking one doesn't help your argument. It makes you look desperate.



Idiot. The vast majority of terrorist attacks on the UK mainland have occurred because of the Troubles. After that they've mainly happened since our involvement in the Iraq war and our involvement in the Middle East. Not because of our membership of the EU.



We don't trade as a country outside the EU. We trade as a member of the EU. Regardless of where in the world we trade with, we trade as a part of the EU as a whole. We don't have side deals with Outer Mongolia, the Pitcairn Islands or anywhere else.



We've been over tariffs a million times on here. Seivad has explained it in great detail. Is it too complicated for you? Here's a 'tariffs for dummies' explanation.



Citations?



The number of homeless has risen due to austerity. It's risen due to cuts to an already barely existent mental health service. Nothing to do with the EU. You're conflating domestic problems with membership of the EU to suit your weird agenda.



Garbled nonsense without links or verification. If you were attempting to post an image, it says nothing apart from your using 'Joan's' computer.

We've already covered the value of EU membership. That such a gigantic organisation has people on the make is hardly surprising - look at the expenses scandals with our own MPs. How Theresa May's husband's company landed plumb government contracts, etc etc. It happens, sadly.

Ranting again! You give a whole lorem ipsom of garbage without any supporting evidence whatever except what you have lifted from the media. The UK was taken into the EEC by the government - only later was there allowed a referendum and it was by no means as strong as the latest referendum.

Any human rights given to one person means another person is denied theirs. Think about it!

I promise you that there were no terrorist attacks carried out on the UK in retaliation for the Gulf Wars. You need to read the EU papers on Health and Safety 2004.

The UK has for many years traded outside the EU, just as Germany has done - because the taxes applied by the EU on goods are too high to make Global trade economical.

You also need to check on the reasons WHY people are homeless. It is not because of austerity. The reasons I gave were in order of greatest to least reasons for people on the streets.

Corruption within the EU is rife! On two occasions to my knowledge money has been lifted directly from the Commission itself. That was well publicised. Yes, every government has corruption - but nowhere on the same scale as the EU. Why do you think that they are not totally transparent about their income and expenditures?

So get out your little research book Mr. Grumpy and work on it before you join your little mates Mr. Sleepy, Mr. Bashful, Mr. Dopey, Mr. Doc etc.

[Alikado]

I read a tweet from a Brexshiteer recently that stated 'I don't care if I have to live on bread, as long as we leave the EU'.

Handy really, as it's about the only thing we don't need to import.

Just highlights the rabidity of the average leave voter: I'd rather harm myself and others as long as we Get Brexit Done. I'd rather we were much, much worse off than remain in the EU. Why? Democracy!

Insanity. The only positive is that these zealots are dying off or coming to their senses, so maybe with a second referendum, we won't need to, as that idiot put it, 'live on bread'.

That's assuming there is no fuel shortage, to get the bread to the shops and get the bakery workers to work....

I'm afraid not, we import quite a bit, around 15% of the wheat used by UK flour millers is imported - representing around 750,000 tonnes.
The average UK harvest is around 15 million tonnes of wheat, so there is enough quantity to meet the UK milling industries tonnage requirement. However, it is not all of the quality required by millers, and as such some wheat is imported. Canadian wheat is generally imported for bread-making purposes, because it has excellent characteristics and gluten strength which work well in a blend with UK wheats. French wheat is generally used in the manufacture of French style products where softer flours are required.

http://www.nabim.org.uk/imports-and-exports

[Toodles McGinty]

Ranting again! You give a whole lorem ipsom of garbage without any supporting evidence whatever except what you have lifted from the media. The UK was taken into the EEC by the government - only later was there allowed a referendum and it was by no means as strong as the latest referendum.

Any human rights given to one person means another person is denied theirs. Think about it!

I promise you that there were no terrorist attacks carried out on the UK in retaliation for the Gulf Wars. You need to read the EU papers on Health and Safety 2004.

The UK has for many years traded outside the EU, just as Germany has done - because the taxes applied by the EU on goods are too high to make Global trade economical.

You also need to check on the reasons WHY people are homeless. It is not because of austerity. The reasons I gave were in order of greatest to least reasons for people on the streets.

Corruption within the EU is rife! On two occasions to my knowledge money has been lifted directly from the Commission itself. That was well publicised. Yes, every government has corruption - but nowhere on the same scale as the EU. Why do you think that they are not totally transparent about their income and expenditures?

So get out your little research book Mr. Grumpy and work on it before you join your little mates Mr. Sleepy, Mr. Bashful, Mr. Dopey, Mr. Doc etc.

Not a 'rant'. I questioned each point of your post. How is that a 'rant'? No supporting evidence? I supplied links, which is usually more than you do. And when you do it's to some bizarre religious cult.

You mentioned terrorist attacks while in the EU. Yes, there have been many, mainly because of the Troubles. Then after our involvement in the Middle East. It isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Being in the EU doesn't prevent terrorist attacks any more than being OUT of the EU prevents terrorist attacks. But we do have access to intelligence and security. A no-deal Brexit would mean the return of Interpol alerts and the UK relying on the 1957 European convention on extradition, under which it could take years to return a suspect instead of the current six weeks with the European arrest warrant. There would no longer be fast access to intelligence in the Schengen Information System II database. Being inside the EU doesn't prevent terrorism, but it does give us extra tools to fight it.

Show me a link to these trades that we do outside of the EU. Because I'm pretty sure we can't even begin to discuss trade deals with other partners before we leave the EU. So show me proof.

As far as homelessness is concerned, the biggest single cause is a loss of a private tenancy, according to Big Issue, who know a thing or two about it. Relationship breakdown, redundancy, poor mental health, alcohol/substance addiction, domestic abuse are others. Nowhere on Shelter or Big Issue's sites seem to blame the EU or freedom of movement.

In your EU corruption rant, you carefully chose what to c&p out of that report. I note you missed the line 'National governments, rather than EU institutions, are chiefly responsible for fighting corruption in the EU'.

So get out your little research book Mr. Grumpy and work on it before you join your little mates Mr. Sleepy, Mr. Bashful, Mr. Dopey, Mr. Doc etc.

Not sure about that. I could open a book on how quickly your psychotic, misogynistic or racist ravings get you banned. Again.