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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    Who will shrink the Town Centre?


    …who'll abandon; who'll encourage?
    It needs to be Government funded led by the Council, Bid & other business leaders.





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  3. #17
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    Politics retail floor space is shrinking spontaneously — but for charity shops

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    "It needs to be Government funded led by the Council, Bid & other business leaders."
    Investors in commercial property are perhaps banking on that. Perhaps the first step is to put the squeeze on them. It is a question of what, if any, is the best way to intervene? You're proposing spend taxpayers' money, first; are you?

  4. #18
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    Another good start would be to ask the local Pedlar family/Lord St Properties Ltd what their plans are for the Beales building.

    After all, they own it so must have some future plans for it?

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    Investors in commercial property are perhaps banking on that. Perhaps the first step is to put the squeeze on them. It is a question of what, if any, is the best way to intervene? You're proposing spend taxpayers' money, first; are you?
    There is Tax Payers money available, but most schemes around are merely 'sticking plaster' ideas, what is required is drastic and substantial along the lines of the slum clearance programs of the 50's & 60's and the Bootle regeneration program that has been running the last 10 years to clear inadequate housing and derelict industrial sites and replace with modern housing.

  6. #20
    Lamparilla Guest
    I don't think that trying to revive the retail sector by replacing defunct department stores with something similar is the answer - it's a national problem, and Southport doesn't have anything unique to suggest that it would work here.

    Converting these places into 'residential units' begs the question of where the residents would work, unless of course they commute to Liverpool, and a plethora of single-occupancy apartments would lead to more bars, takeaways and night-time violence - something that is a problem in Southport already.

    I think that Southport should concentrate on developing its attractiveness to visitors with an emphasis on families - that's what made it 'famous', and many people in the north of England still regard Southport as a venue for a nice day out or a weekend away, although they're probably harking back to yesteryear.

    Although details haven't yet been revealed, the plans that Norman Wallis and Sefton MBC have to improve the Pleasureland site seem, in my view, to be the way forward.

    And if we wanted to be really ambitious, and could attract the investment, look what they're doing in Morecambe with a target of 1 million visitors a year:

    https://www.edenproject.com/media/20...ncs-expo-today

    Southport, in my view, needs a 'flagship' project like this to really put it back on the map.

    I think it's a crying shame that the planners allowed a prime seafront site like Ocean Plaza to be developed with outlets like Matalan, Pets At Home etc - places that visitors can find on retail parks where they live. In the past, that area was the home of Peter Pans and the outdoor pool, and they should have been replaced with visitor/leisure facilities, not national chain shops.

    How about a state-of-the-art ice rink/stadium, which could be home to a Southport ice hockey team and attract ice shows like Disney on Ice.

    Southport has to think big!

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  8. #21
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    Politics creative destruction in action?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    There is Tax Payers money available, but most schemes around are merely 'sticking plaster' ideas, what is required is drastic and substantial along the lines of the slum clearance programs of the 50's & 60's and the Bootle regeneration program that has been running the last 10 years to clear inadequate housing and derelict industrial sites and replace with modern housing.
    Comparing Lord Street to a derelict industrial estate?
    More accurately bricks and mortar retailers are experiencing what economist Joseph Schumpeter called creative destruction. It is economic forces rather than dereliction that plagues our retailers. Effective intervention is problematic.


  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    Comparing Lord Street to a derelict industrial estate?
    More accurately bricks and mortar retailers are experiencing what economist Joseph Schumpeter called creative destruction. It is economic forces rather than dereliction that plagues our retailers. Effective intervention is problematic.

    Lord St will become like a derelict industrial estate within a couple of years if nothing is done, it is already going that way within a couple of months 20% of the frontage of the west side of Lord St will be empty and bombarded up, this will soon become ever decreasing circles. No business will want to continue if half the shops on the block are empty, take away the Charity Shops and how much of the frontage will be occupied?

  10. #23
    Lamparilla Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    Lord St will become like a derelict industrial estate within a couple of years if nothing is done, it is already going that way within a couple of months 20% of the frontage of the west side of Lord St will be empty and bombarded up, this will soon become ever decreasing circles. No business will want to continue if half the shops on the block are empty, take away the Charity Shops and how much of the frontage will be occupied?
    I agree, and this supports my post above about increasing visitor appeal.

    I know that others on here are in favour of making part of Lord Street into a pedestrian area, centred on the Monument. You could have a very impressive open 'piazza' surrounded by purpose-built refreshments kiosks and seating areas (covered). They could set up trestle tables on Sundays and have a fleamarket - you see lots of places like this on the continent.

    In my view, things like this would be much better than chucking money at Southport Market.
    Last edited by Lamparilla; 26/01/2020 at 12:01 PM.

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  12. #24
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    Politics …let's not confuse cause and effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    Lord St will become like a derelict industrial estate within a couple of years if nothing is done, it is already going that way within a couple of months 20% of the frontage of the west side of Lord St will be empty and bombarded up, this will soon become ever decreasing circles. No business will want to continue if half the shops on the block are empty, take away the Charity Shops and how much of the frontage will be occupied?
    Be clear about it: bricks and mortar retailers are suffering owing largely to internet shopping. Though it sounds helpful, there is a limit to what public investment can accomplish in the face of changing consumer behaviour.
    Retail contraction is happening in Southport as in other towns. I suspect intervention is unhelpful. Market forces will cull insufficiently agile traders; the town is in for a period of adjustment. Better to ponder how town centres will be in the future. How can town centres prosper with diminished retail presence.

  13. #25
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    continental paizza?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamparilla View Post
    I know that others on here are in favour of making part of Lord Street into a pedestrian area, centred on the Monument. You could have a very impressive open 'piazza' surrounded by purpose-built refreshments kiosks and seating areas (covered). They could set up trestle tables on Sundays and have a fleamarket - you see lots of places like this on the continent.
    Piazza is great where the summer season is long and comparatively dry. In Southport, we see the cafés putting out their seating on cool, wet summer days with only nicotine addicted patrons braving the weather.
    Don't disrespect the covered market. Many towns have them to good effect.

  14. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    Be clear about it: bricks and mortar retailers are suffering owing largely to internet shopping. Though it sounds helpful, there is a limit to what public investment can accomplish in the face of changing consumer behaviour.
    Retail contraction is happening in Southport as in other towns. I suspect intervention is unhelpful. Market forces will cull insufficiently agile traders; the town is in for a period of adjustment. Better to ponder how town centres will be in the future. How can town centres prosper with diminished retail presence.
    What I'm saying is the excess capacity has to be taken out of the system, there will never be a boom in retail shops again so holding onto spare capacity is a waste of time, the areas that are holding their own are the small compact ones.

  15. #27
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    thinking BIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamparilla View Post
    How about a state-of-the-art ice rink/stadium, which could be home to a Southport ice hockey team and attract ice shows like Disney on Ice.
    Southport has to think big!
    As in white elephant?

  16. #28
    Lamparilla Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    Piazza is great where the summer season is long and comparatively dry. In Southport, we see the cafés putting out their seating on cool, wet summer days with only nicotine addicted patrons braving the weather.
    Don't disrespect the covered market. Many towns have them to good effect.
    I do disrespect the covered market- it's yet another Sefton 'business' disaster. In the towns where they have been a success, it's because they still have a 'market feel' to them, but Sefton made Southport market look like a miniature department store, presumably so they could charge extortionate rents for the stalls. Now, they seem to be planning to throw good money after bad with a posh 'food court' idea, which in my view will be another disaster.

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  18. #29
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    Politics ends versus means

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    What I'm saying is the excess capacity has to be taken out of the system, there will never be a boom in retail shops again so holding onto spare capacity is a waste of time, the areas that are holding their own are the small compact ones.
    I agree. The question is: HOW? In terms of public investment, what is the most effective?

  19. #30
    Lamparilla Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    As in white elephant?
    We already have one of those - it's called Southport Market

    Going back to the piazza idea:

    https://c8.alamy.com/comp/KPDMF3/the...aly-KPDMF3.jpg

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