Road Tax Changes 2020

[silver fox]

A) If you had followed the thread instead of simply jumping in at the end, you would be aware that loss of fuel duty is happening anyway. Reason is that fossil fuels are, thankfully, being phased out in UK.

B) Even if sales were halved as a result, the Govt's revenue would increase if VAT had been raised from 20% to 50%......simple maths!

Where is all the hydrogen coming from? Suggest you look up hydrogen production, currently 95% of hydrogen is produced by reforming fossil fuels, which requires electricity whichever method is used, ideally an economical method of splitting water would be great, sadly splitting water to produce oxygen and hydrogen needs more energy than can be then obtained using hydrogen as a fuel.

[The PNP]

Where is all the hydrogen coming from? Suggest you look up hydrogen production, currently 95% of hydrogen is produced by reforming fossil fuels, which requires electricity whichever method is used, ideally an economical method of splitting water would be great, sadly splitting water to produce oxygen and hydrogen needs more energy than can be then obtained using hydrogen as a fuel.

The key is that hydrogen, unlike electricity, is readily shippable over long distances. Split water where there is plenty solar (Africa?), not forgetting wind turbine potential of lightly populated windy parts of the world. Then transporting the hydrogen by tanker vessel to wherever it's needed. Hydrogen production could be a real moneyspinner for certain disadvantaged third-world countries in years to come.

[sandGroundZero]

All Electric will not happen in my lifetime, the infrastructure isn’t there and won’t be, the existing power stations and distribution grid won’t be able to cope with virtually every household coming home from work and plugging their cars in. The grid struggles now when there is a big football match on TV and people put the kettle on at half time.

Privately owned motor vehicles will become passé. Fleets of autonomous taxis & buses will suffice in urban areas.

Unless you want to fry the planet, patterns of behaviour must necessarily change. I anticipate there'll be a combination of incentives and penalties (for anti-social production of GHGs). But, which ever way you prefer to look at it, things are going to change!

[JohnBoy]

It's time we had road tax on Bikes say £25

[silver fox]

It's time we had road tax on Bikes say £25

If the government ever manage to push the majority of us onto push bikes, there will be some form of taxation, registration, that you can count on.

[The PNP]

It's time we had road tax on Bikes say £25

That would be most unfair, as motorists pay no road tax (see post#7). The Road Fund Licence for cars was abolished pre-WW2!

Of course, if your aim is to get rid of bikes, it's a great idea. Don't forget to spend the money raised elsewhere, ensuring none of it goes on new cycle-paths. You could also ban under-17's from riding, make comprehensive cycle insurance, cycle helmets, bike MOT's, a cycling-test and a riding license all compulsory - just to be really sure!

[sandGroundZero]

It's time we had road tax on Bikes say £25

Alternatively, you could charge all road users per mile travelled. A formula that creates an effective tax on emissions — perhaps ring-fenced for health provision? Seems reasonable.
To be fair, some equality of provision for pedestrians and other self-propelled users.

All and any effective measures to curtail unnecessary journeys ought, one imagines, create a better local environment. Don't you agree?

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[Kippax]

Alternatively, you could charge all road users per mile travelled. A formula that creates an effective tax on emissions — perhaps ring-fenced for health provision? Seems reasonable.
To be fair, some equality of provision for pedestrians and other self-propelled users.

All and any effective measures to curtail unnecessary journeys ought, one imagines, create a better local environment. Don't you agree?

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Why are you talking about emissions, when the plan is to introduce all electric vehicles, with “zero” emissions.

To put the technology into all fossil burning vehicles to be able to bill drivers per mile driven is undeliverable in the time scale, and the cost would be prohibitive.

The government will be scratching its head on how to replace the £28b in lost Fuel Duty, as I’ve said before, it’s not as simple as putting it on the electricity tariff when charging, even with a separate meter.

iIf you use the same meter / tariff then the homes with no cars would pay more for their lighting, heating etc.
A separate meter with higher tariff would probably see a lot of people bypassing their meter or using Their lower tariff meter.

Whatever the government’s plan is (if they have one) needs to be announced / implemented soon as it will take years to put in place.

[sandGroundZero]

If you use the same meter / tariff then the homes with no cars would pay more for their lighting, heating etc.

A separate meter with higher tariff would probably see a lot of people bypassing their meter or using Their lower tariff meter.

Perhaps I misunderstand your point, here. You're suggesting a higher electricity tariff for charging vehicles; are you?
I do see that that is a requirement. A policy of universal domestic so-called "Smart Meters" will enable variable tariffs depending upon the demand at any given time and the cost of supplying that demand.

However as I've said elsewhere, privately owned vehicles will become passé, if autonomous taxis and buses prove feasible.

Road charging infrastructure will be an abundant source of general revenue, if the past is any guide. C'est la vie!

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[The PNP]

To put the technology into all fossil burning vehicles to be able to bill drivers per mile driven is undeliverable in the time scale, and the cost would be prohibitive.

All motor vehicles have for many years had an odometer on the dash, which displays total miles driven. Would it be that hard to pay up for miles driven annually at time of MOT test, when odometer reading is recorded? 'Winding back the clock' would need the penalty significantly increased, to discourage the practice though!

[sandGroundZero]

Why are you talking about emissions, when the plan is to introduce all electric vehicles, with “zero” emissions.

EVs (electric vehicles) are not without overheads with respect of urban environments. Braking systems and tyres are a source of µ prarticles. In addition, EVs only produce zero GHG emissions to the extent of the electicity generation supplying the grid.

In the final analysis and like it, or not, reducing the number of vehicles on the road will be necessary. But do not despair . It could turn out to be rather pleasant compared to the present urban environment.

[Kippax]

All motor vehicles have for many years had an odometer on the dash, which displays total miles driven. Would it be that hard to pay up for miles driven annually at time of MOT test, when odometer reading is recorded? 'Winding back the clock' would need the penalty significantly increased, to discourage the practice though!

Modern cars with digital odometers are easy to “wind back” all you need is a laptop, suitable lead and freely available software.

There are hundreds of adverts offering the service under the guise of “mileage correction”

As for increasing the fines, yes it should be a criminal offence punishable by a huge fine and custodial sentence for repeat offenders.

In reality the practice is likely to increase among certain sectors, an annual mileage check would be open to abuse.

It would need to be a tamper proof black box with GPS and able to transmit data in real-time as well as sending details if tampered with. And that isn’t going to happen anytime soon.

[said]

Why are you talking about emissions, when the plan is to introduce all electric vehicles, with “zero” emissions.

To put the technology into all fossil burning vehicles to be able to bill drivers per mile driven is undeliverable in the time scale, and the cost would be prohibitive.

The government will be scratching its head on how to replace the £28b in lost Fuel Duty, as I’ve said before, it’s not as simple as putting it on the electricity tariff when charging, even with a separate meter.

iIf you use the same meter / tariff then the homes with no cars would pay more for their lighting, heating etc.
A separate meter with higher tariff would probably see a lot of people bypassing their meter or using Their lower tariff meter.

Whatever the government’s plan is (if they have one) needs to be announced / implemented soon as it will take years to put in place.

All electric vehicles are a way off as yet! Imagine travelling to London in the rush hour. You would need to recharge your battery at least once on the way down and re-charge it again before leaving and then again on the return journey. There would be masses of queues at the charging points!

The supply of the metals lithium and cobalt are not an infinite supply - what happens when the sources run out? One battery cell is not going to last the life of a car!

The cost of these batteries is £6000 each - still keen to own an electric car?

My thoughts are for hydrogen power incorporating some form of exchange from methane. There will have to be some mechanism in place to make methane emissions safe and harmless - but the costs compared to savings, make it a worthwhile bet. Methane is far more abundant and constantly so.

[sandGroundZero]

All electric vehicles are a way off as yet! Imagine travelling to London in the rush hour. You would need to recharge your battery at least once on the way down and re-charge it again before leaving and then again on the return journey. There would be masses of queues at the charging points!

EVs are one element of a more general transport revolution. Other aspects aside for the moment, getting people out of private cars is the ideal.

My thoughts are for hydrogen power incorporating some form of exchange from methane. There will have to be some mechanism in place to make methane emissions safe and harmless - but the costs compared to savings, make it a worthwhile bet. Methane is far more abundant and constantly so.

What does that mean? This is an appropriate place for a link to some expanded discussion of producing hydrogen (presumably from methane; is it?)

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[said]

EVs are one element of a more general transport revolution. Other aspects aside for the moment, getting people out of private cars is the ideal.

What does that mean? This is an appropriate place for a link to some expanded discussion of producing hydrogen (presumably from methane; is it?)

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There are no real links as this idea is a mere theory at present. What is a problem is the huge volume of methane that is produced in the UK on a daily basis, compared with other chemicals and that there is very little choice in disposing of it satisfactorily. It is a very powerful chemical and would be ideal as a fuel - but in its raw form is also very toxic. Volkswagon supposedly invented a Beetle car that is claimed ran on bio-fuel (methane) in 2010, but there is absolutely nothing about this car apart from the first announcement. You may know more about this than I.