West Antarctic Ice Sheet Melt

[The PNP]

A graph covering the past 1,000 years clearly shows both the Mediaeval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. It showed global temperatures had risen up to 1 degree C between 1000 and 1400, then having fallen by as much as 1.75 degrees to the end of the eighteenth century. This is what climates do - and will always do.

Then it's a coincidence we see temps over the last 150 years rising in parallel with rising human-assisted CO2 output? Obvious connection to most people, but I guess we'll never agree about about that, or about root cause of why world temps keep rising.

Fact is, as you'll be aware, sealevels are rising and weird weather is becoming more frequent. Fact also is, the laws of physics dictate that more C02 = a hotter world. Likewise, less CO2 = a cooler world........Seems to me, if we choose to deliberately reduce the current high C02 levels (however caused) we'll cool the world and so arrest sealevel rise - we'll also reduce incidence and severity of weird weather. Both objectives are imo worthy goals.

[duncet]

Then it's a coincidence we see temps over the last 150 years rising in parallel with rising human-assisted CO2 output? Obvious connection to most people, but I guess we'll never agree about about that, or about root cause of why world temps keep rising.

Fact is, as you'll be aware, sealevels are rising and weird weather is becoming more frequent. Fact also is, the laws of physics dictate that more C02 = a hotter world. Likewise, less CO2 = a cooler world........Seems to me, if we choose to deliberately reduce the current high C02 levels (however caused) we'll cool the world and so arrest sealevel rise - we'll also reduce incidence and severity of weird weather. Both objectives are imo worthy goals.

Since you raised the subject of sea levels - At a climate international seminar held in Moscow in December 2003 Dr Nils-Axel Morner, who had recently stepped down after 4 years as President of the International Panel of Sea Level Changes (he was also Professor of geology at the University of Stockholm with 30 years experience of studying sea level changes throughout the world) was surprised that of 22 authors of the section on sea levels he had only knowledge of one who was a genuine sea level expert. Dr Morner strongly challenged the IPCCs position. He reported that when he, and an expert team, had carried out a series of studies of the Maldives, where the IPCC's tide data showed sea levels to be rising, their research based on extensive field observations showed levels to have fallen by between 20 and 30 centimetres in the 1970s, and since to have remained stable.
It isn't always wise to follow the easy fashionable route of believing what you read in the papers. It is manipulation and the BBC are in the front line. You will hardly see a news report that doesn't, in some way, mention climate change. If they cut carbon emissions to zero by 10 o'clock tomorrow it wouldn't make one iota of difference. Better to spend all the money that's being thrown away on the futile attempts to halt climate change on building sensible flood defences in the areas that are frequently suffering from this problem.

[The PNP]

Better to spend all the money that's being thrown away on the futile attempts to halt climate change on building sensible flood defences in the areas that are frequently suffering from this problem.

These 'areas' are a lot harder to define nowadays - as nowhere in the UK now appears to be safe from the phenomena. Meantime, areas with historical flooding issues e.g. the Calder Valley, now experience a devastating 'once in a hundred years flood', almost every other year....

To build impregnable flood defences around virtually every town in the UK, which is what you'd have to do, would cost an unbelievable amount.....I guess we're seeing the situation play out as predicted. Outright denial, followed by blaming it all on natural cycles, to the: Oh dear it's too late to do anything about it now anyway - so let's just carry on chucking out CO2 and hope the whole issue somehow goes away!

[sandGroundZero]

Since you raised the subject of sea levels - At a climate international seminar held in Moscow in December 2003 Dr Nils-Axel Morner, who had recently stepped down after 4 years as President of the International Panel of Sea Level Changes (he was also Professor of geology at the University of Stockholm with 30 years experience of studying sea level changes throughout the world) was surprised that of 22 authors of the section on sea levels he had only knowledge of one who was a genuine sea level expert. Dr Morner strongly challenged the IPCCs position. He reported that when he, and an expert team, had carried out a series of studies of the Maldives, where the IPCC's tide data showed sea levels to be rising, their research based on extensive field observations showed levels to have fallen by between 20 and 30 centimetres in the 1970s, and since to have remained stable.
It isn't always wise to follow the easy fashionable route of believing what you read in the papers. It is manipulation and the BBC are in the front line. You will hardly see a news report that doesn't, in some way, mention climate change. If they cut carbon emissions to zero by 10 o'clock tomorrow it wouldn't make one iota of difference. Better to spend all the money that's being thrown away on the futile attempts to halt climate change on building sensible flood defences in the areas that are frequently suffering from this problem.

It appears that many other researchers studying sea levels have disputed (see also INQUA, the International Union for Quaternary Research) Dr Nils-Axel Mörner's claims. It appears Mörner is the go to celebrity denier in this field.

So, who do you believe? Who in the print or broadcast media do you believe?

[Toodles McGinty]

Since you raised the subject of sea levels - At a climate international seminar held in Moscow in December 2003 Dr Nils-Axel Morner, who had recently stepped down after 4 years as President of the International Panel of Sea Level Changes (he was also Professor of geology at the University of Stockholm with 30 years experience of studying sea level changes throughout the world) was surprised that of 22 authors of the section on sea levels he had only knowledge of one who was a genuine sea level expert. Dr Morner strongly challenged the IPCCs position. He reported that when he, and an expert team, had carried out a series of studies of the Maldives, where the IPCC's tide data showed sea levels to be rising, their research based on extensive field observations showed levels to have fallen by between 20 and 30 centimetres in the 1970s, and since to have remained stable.

Odd this. Just Googled Nils-Axel Morner and 'International Panel of Sea Level Changes'.

Can't find anything on the latter. 4 pages of Google, not a single mention.

There are pages on Morner. Great believer in 'dowsing', apparently. "The renowned American skepticist James Randi offered him a reward of US$971000 if Mörner could show that dowsing worked in a scientifically controlled experiment. Mörner later rejected the offer".

Seems he was the president of the International Union for Quaternary Research. In 2007, the union issued a statement on climate change in which they reiterated the conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and urged all nations to take prompt action in line with the UNFCCC principles. Also read something about him accusing people of damaging trees.

With all due respect, he sounds a bit eccentric. His theories on isostasy seem fairly respected. Not so much his views on climate change.

Once again, when the vast majority of the scientific community agree on climate change and its causes, it seems strange to choose to believe in the 3% whose theories have generally been discounted.

Given that we are generally screwing up the planet in every other way - wiping out species, putting plastic into the air we breathe, poisoning oceans, causing all manner of pollution just about everywhere - I don't find it so strange that we are messing up the climate as well.

[The PNP]

It appears that many other researchers studying sea levels have disputed (see also INQUA, the International Union for Quaternary Research) Dr Nils-Axel Mörner's claims. It appears Mörner is the go to celebrity denier in this field.

Morner must have an agenda. Perhaps he makes a living doing talks for sceptics, eager to clutch at his climate-denying straw?

The laws of physics state that warming up water makes it expand. With the planets temperature recently raised by 1 deg C, the sea must have expanded as a result. I.e. there must be sealevel rise....I wonder where Morner thinks all the millions of gallons of meltwater from our retreating glaciers has gone - to the moon perhaps?

[Snig's foot]

Since you raised the subject of sea levels - At a climate international seminar held in Moscow in December 2003 Dr Nils-Axel Morner, who had recently stepped down after 4 years as President of the International Panel of Sea Level Changes (he was also Professor of geology at the University of Stockholm with 30 years experience of studying sea level changes throughout the world) was surprised that of 22 authors of the section on sea levels he had only knowledge of one who was a genuine sea level expert. Dr Morner strongly challenged the IPCCs position. He reported that when he, and an expert team, had carried out a series of studies of the Maldives, where the IPCC's tide data showed sea levels to be rising, their research based on extensive field observations showed levels to have fallen by between 20 and 30 centimetres in the 1970s, and since to have remained stable.
It isn't always wise to follow the easy fashionable route of believing what you read in the papers. It is manipulation and the BBC are in the front line. You will hardly see a news report that doesn't, in some way, mention climate change. If they cut carbon emissions to zero by 10 o'clock tomorrow it wouldn't make one iota of difference. Better to spend all the money that's being thrown away on the futile attempts to halt climate change on building sensible flood defences in the areas that are frequently suffering from this problem.

Have I got this right: you don't believe that sea levels are rising (assuming you agree with Dr Morner), but then say that we should build sea defences?

[sandGroundZero]

Have I got this right: you don't believe that sea levels are rising (assuming you agree with Dr Morner), but then say that we should build sea defences?

…only fair to point out the post cited didn't mention sea defences — but, flood defences (presumably in view of recent river flooding after persistent, heavy rains.)

[Snig's foot]

…only fair to point out the post cited didn't mention sea defences — but, flood defences (presumably in view of recent river flooding after persistent, heavy rains.)

Yes, fair enough. I've not followed the post through there. Apologies to Duncet for misquoting the post.