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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    A) you have to destroy forests for the wood.

    B) A joint study by Greenpeace and The Guardian last year revealed that nearly 50,000 children across England and Wales are exposed to dangerous levels of air pollution. The increased popularity of wood burners is making the problem worse – according to King’s College London, wood-burning in London accounts for up to 31% of the city’s particulate pollution – an increase of 10% .

    C) The faux green proponents of these stoves are being exposed at last.
    A) To obtain a sustainable FSC approved supply, you have to plant your trees first, before you can harvest them.....Most forests are destroyed by ranching and palm-oil interests in the tropics, certainly not by our own conscientious UK log suppliers.

    B) Nobody's denying air pollution is an issue, far from it. As a cyclists, I'm well aware of pollution whenever I ride in traffic!

    C) Fact is, approx 70% of London air pollution has nothing whatsoever to do with stoves...Quality of air decreases dramatically in the vicinity of their main roads - which coincidentally is where you find most of the stinky traffic.
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  3. #47
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    With regard to post 41 above, I forgot to say that once in a while I do burn wood that is not kiln-dried when we are in the cabin. I burn some logs from trees that my sons and I felled a good ten years ago when we "cleaned up" the area in order to improve the view. These have been stored in a shed for all this time and I would guess they are now what can be defined as dried wood.
    Age is simply a matter of mind - age doesn't matter if you don't mind

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  5. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    …its the usual when I ask for examples from those who have a different view and resort to frivolous accusations when they have no argument.
    You are not meticulous in your posts; so, don't get on a high horse.

  6. #49
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    Meanwhile in China :

    https://www.wired.com/story/china-is...w-coal-plants/

    So why should we worry about wet or dry wood for stoves, or infact an GHG saves !

  7. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by *concerned* View Post
    …why should we worry about wet or dry wood for stoves, or infact an GHG saves !
    Local air quality, for a start; particularly in urban areas.

    Are you advocating the line:
    The UK's emissions are comparatively insignificant versus China and others; therefore, it follows the UK need not spend to reduce its emissions ?

    If you are, then bear in mind that the UK has a much longer legacy of industrial scale emissions compared to China and India. In addition, the UK poses as a progressive leader in world affairs. There is no better place to show leadership.

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  9. #51
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    Well Well Well, the government UK are going to make the burning of coal and non suitable wood illegal as they are causing environmental problems. The only wood that can be burned is Kiln Dried so as sure as eggs are eggs the price will rise, so the alliance between Norway and Cloud Cuckoo Cyling land will be put to the test.

    Local has been saying all this time that the cyclist is wrong now the government prove he was.

    One good thing is the clown who lives near me won't be breaking up pallets at 22.00 and burning anything that leaves a coat of ash everywhere if it is enforced of course. The first thing is a register of EVERYONE who uses a woodburner and samples of emission taken at regular intervals.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/21/coal-wood-fires-banned-fight-cut-emissions/

  10. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    Local air quality, for a start; particularly in urban areas.

    Are you advocating the line:
    The UK's emissions are comparatively insignificant versus China and others; therefore, it follows the UK need not spend to reduce its emissions ?

    If you are, then bear in mind that the UK has a much longer legacy of industrial scale emissions compared to China and India. In addition, the UK poses as a progressive leader in world affairs. There is no better place to show leadership.
    Get real !

    Our 1% contribution to GHG, if it were reduced to 0% gross never mind 0.5% or even 0% nett would make not one iota of difference to GHG worldwide.

    What the UK produced 100yrs ago has more than likely dissipated by now, and as for wood burner stoves installed locally, betting there aint that many to even notice there are some!

    ....and instead of spending all these £Billions on 'green' ideas, what about spending that money on say flood protection/prevention. Those poor sods with flooded properties wish money was spent saving their property than spending on some far flung green project that would never ever prevent more floods!

  11. #53
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    The problem is so many users of stoves are not buying and using kiln dried wood which in itself has a dose of eco madness attached to its production and delivery.


    The stoves themselves have no testing once their installed.

    Owners burn allsorts and if you have ever had the misfortune to be near one burning old window frames it makes your eyes smart and gives you a sore throat.

    They are not any shade of green.

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  13. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    The UK's emissions are comparatively insignificant versus China and others; therefore, it follows the UK need not spend to reduce its emissions.
    That is a favourite argument of the motoring fraternity. Of course China will have higher emissions than the UK, if only because they have more than twenty times our population. Same nonsense argument can be applied when comparing any small country to one with a huge population.

    What counts at end of day, are personal carbon emissions per head of population...Check those figures and you soon realise why the UK is acting to reduce emissions.
    Last edited by The PNP; 21/02/2020 at 08:49 PM.
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  14. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    A) The problem is so many users of stoves are not buying and using kiln dried wood which in itself has a dose of eco madness attached to its production and delivery.

    B) The stoves themselves have no testing once their installed.

    C) Owners burn allsorts and if you have ever had the misfortune to be near one burning old window frames it makes your eyes smart and gives you a sore throat.

    D) They are not any shade of green.
    A) Disagree. I regularly attend premises in connection with stove installations/maintenance. In my experience, a typical log basket contains well-seasoned logs.....If there is a suspicion damp wood has been used, customers are told of the risks and to ensure they use only dry wood.

    B) Stoves are Govt tested to attain DEFRA accreditation, before they ever come onto the market. Stoves are robust devices, they invariably continue to perform as intended. As with gasfires, any issues will come to light/be sorted at regular maintenance intervals.

    C) I take it you've never had the misfortune to drive/ride behind a VW diesel! Burning rubbish materials is inadvisable and anti-social - would advise against the practice.

    D) Stoves are green when fuelled with carbon-neutral FSC timber. That's a lot more than can be said for gas heating appliances, such as yours, Which I understand are to be banned.
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  15. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    A) If there is a suspicion damp wood has been used, customers are told of the risks and to ensure they use only dry wood. By who, and who polices it ?

    B) Stoves are Govt tested to attain DEFRA accreditation, before they ever come onto the market.in them But the user can burn anything on them, possibly damp wood or painted wood.

    C) I take it you've never had the misfortune to drive/ride behind a VW diesel! Burning rubbish materials is inadvisable and anti-social - would advise against the practice. There are some very dirty engines out there, I drive a Euro6 diesel that uses adblue to reduce emissions.

    D) Stoves are green when fuelled with carbon-neutral FSC timber. That's a lot more than can be said for gas heating appliances, such as yours, Which I understand are to be banned.

    When, being the all important word, there is absolutely no guarantee that when you install it and walk away the customer will only burn the correct fuel. Unlike gas which is supplied by the provider direct to the appliance.
    .

  16. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    A) Disagree. I regularly attend premises in connection with stove installations/maintenance. In my experience, a typical log basket contains well-seasoned logs.....If there is a suspicion damp wood has been used, customers are told of the risks and to ensure they use only dry wood.

    B) Stoves are Govt tested to attain DEFRA accreditation, before they ever come onto the market. Stoves are robust devices, they invariably continue to perform as intended. As with gasfires, any issues will come to light/be sorted at regular maintenance intervals.

    C) I take it you've never had the misfortune to drive/ride behind a VW diesel! Burning rubbish materials is inadvisable and anti-social - would advise against the practice.

    D) Stoves are green when fuelled with carbon-neutral FSC timber. That's a lot more than can be said for gas heating appliances, such as yours, Which I understand are to be banned.
    You have your concept of what comprises carbon neutral, which many don't agree with, but after the tables of particle emissions shown on the news tonight, I would drop your emissions claim fairly quickly, even using kiln dried wood the particle emissions from a wood burning stove are a mere 394 times greater than from a diesel car.

    Incidentally VW fiddled exhaust emissions as did others to show ultra low emissions, that does not make them a particularly "dirty" car by a long way, any diesel or petrol engine wrongly fuelled or improperly serviced is much "dirtier" than any other vehicle, no matter what the "official" figures are.

  17. #58
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    Politics …what is real?

    Quote Originally Posted by *concerned* View Post
    Get real !
    …What the UK produced 100yrs ago has more than likely dissipated by now,
    ...and instead of spending all these £Billions on 'green' ideas, what about spending that money on say flood protection/prevention. Those poor sods with flooded properties wish money was spent saving their property than spending on some far flung green project that would never ever prevent more floods!
    1. you expect China, India and other nations to bear the cost of reducing GHGs so that we in the UK can continue our emitting ways, do you? per capita and historical considerations mean nothing to you, then?
    2. do you suppose that climate change science is a fraud? that levels of heat-traping gases are unrelated to extreme weather events we experience?
    Get real !

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  19. #59
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    Not lit mine tonight,its quite mild out there.
    Devil in disguise,

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    A) You have your concept of what comprises carbon neutral, which many don't agree with, but after the tables of particle emissions shown on the news tonight, I would drop your emissions claim fairly quickly, even using kiln dried wood the particle emissions from a wood burning stove are a mere 394 times greater than from a diesel car.

    B) Incidentally VW fiddled exhaust emissions as did others to show ultra low emissions, that does not make them a particularly "dirty" car by a long way, any diesel or petrol engine wrongly fuelled or improperly serviced is much "dirtier" than any other vehicle, no matter what the "official" figures are.
    A) 'Carbon neutral' is a widely accepted term. Essentially, when timber or any other fuel is responsible for releasing CO2, an equivalent amount of CO2 captured.....Thus no NET increase in global atmospheric CO2, which in these climate crisis times is the holy grail!

    It may be so, that particles emitted by a single stove are greater than a single car. However, there are many millions more cars on UK roads, than there are UK woodstoves. I.e. in the big picture, total vehicle emissions pose a significantly greater threat to public health than total woodstove emissions.

    B) Agree. Improperly maintained/fuelled vehicles (or stoves) pollute more.
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