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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiplash View Post
    Not lit mine tonight,its quite mild out there.
    Mine's in, but not stoked up for the night just yet - it's quietly 'slumbering' away.
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  3. #62
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  4. #63
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    DEFRA Stoves

    ^ I notice you've conveniently omitted the lower portion of the above page, where it clearly states: 'Make sure the stove you buy is DEFRA exempted'. Sound advice indeed, as a DEFRA stove is a 'smokeless' stove i.e. is fully Govt approved for use in all UK smoke control areas (smokeless zones)......I would strongly recommend users of older non-DEFRA stoves, to get quotes for upgrading to an approved model.
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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    ^ I notice you've conveniently omitted the lower portion of the above page, where it clearly states: 'Make sure the stove you buy is DEFRA exempted'. Sound advice indeed, as a DEFRA stove is a 'smokeless' stove i.e. is fully Govt approved for use in all UK smoke control areas (smokeless zones)......I would strongly recommend users of older non-DEFRA stoves, to get quotes for upgrading to an approved model.
    But having a DEFRA approved stove is no guarantee that people don’t burn crap on them

  6. #65
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    Jumping in on this, not to put my two penn'orth in about the pros and cons of wood burning stoves as such. I do think it depends very much on what you are burning. And if that single wood burning stove is contributing as much as the collective using a coal burning power station.

    Just mentioning that there is definitely someone with a wood burner around the top of Post Office Avenue. It absolutely reeks. Now I've no clue if they are burning DEFRA approved fuel or not, but my goodness, if there were a lot more doing it, you wouldn't be able to breathe in that part of town.

    Noticed there's a long flue pipe extending to the roof on the building next to the 'Office', so I'm assuming it is there. So if they read this, please stop burning whatever it is. It's bloody awful.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    ^ I notice you've conveniently omitted the lower portion of the above page, where it clearly states: 'Make sure the stove you buy is DEFRA exempted'. Sound advice indeed, as a DEFRA stove is a 'smokeless' stove i.e. is fully Govt approved for use in all UK smoke control areas (smokeless zones)......I would strongly recommend users of older non-DEFRA stoves, to get quotes for upgrading to an approved model.
    In this particular case, omission of the lower part of the page doesn't mean jack. Despite the tests being conducted under perfect conditions, using the most up to date stove and the best wood, the results were pretty damning. Can you imagine what the results would be if all of the ideal test conditions weren't met?

    "The effects are dramatic: the Air Quality Expert Group (a Defra Committee) has shown that the best, cleanest and most modern single stove, burning the best wood in laboratory conditions, produces the same amount of PM2.5 every hour as 18 new diesel cars or six new diesel lorries."


     

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    Jumping in on this, not to put my two penn'orth in about the pros and cons of wood burning stoves as such. I do think it depends very much on what you are burning. And if that single wood burning stove is contributing as much as the collective using a coal burning power station.

    Just mentioning that there is definitely someone with a wood burner around the top of Post Office Avenue. It absolutely reeks. Now I've no clue if they are burning DEFRA approved fuel or not, but my goodness, if there were a lot more doing it, you wouldn't be able to breathe in that part of town.

    Noticed there's a long flue pipe extending to the roof on the building next to the 'Office', so I'm assuming it is there. So if they read this, please stop burning whatever it is. It's bloody awful.

    Not been in, but methinks its a coal fire in the Masons Arms ?

  10. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by *concerned* View Post
    Not been in, but methinks its a coal fire in the Masons Arms ?
    You know, it could be. Smells like when people are burning garden waste, but I suppose it might be a coal fire. Although there's one in the Cheshire Lines that doesn't smell lie that, inside or out.

    I can always smell it in that particular area. Doesn't half reek.

  11. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by seivad View Post
    "The effects are dramatic: the Air Quality Expert Group (a Defra Committee) has shown that the best, cleanest and most modern single stove, burning the best wood in laboratory conditions, produces the same amount of PM2.5 every hour as 18 new diesel cars or six new diesel lorries."
    New diesel cars are low soot - at least if you believe the manufacturers figures . But for every one new diesel, there's a whole fleet of older used models chugging about puffing the stuff out. Which means that figure of 18 is certainly optimistic. Let's see a modern DEFRA stove set against that stinky old smokeyjoe who leaves a trail of blue smoke down the road behind him/her.

    But this is missing the whole point of installing a stove, i.e. that (fuelled with sustainably-grown timber) it is carbon neutral. And in these climate emergency times, moving over to a carbon-neutral heatsource is absolutely essential.

    N.B. Owners of new properties will, in any case, have little choice but to put in a DEFRA stove or briquette-burning fire. That is, if they want the comfort and independence of a real fire. Reason being, that gasfires are to be banned in newbuilds. A ban which really does bode well for the future of the stove industry.
    Last edited by The PNP; 23/02/2020 at 10:52 AM.
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  12. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    New diesel cars are low soot - at least if you believe the manufacturers figures . But for every one new diesel, there's a whole fleet of older used models chugging about puffing the stuff out. Which means that figure of 18 is certainly optimistic. Let's see a modern DEFRA stove set against that stinky old smokeyjoe who leaves a trail of blue smoke down the road behind him/her.

    But this is missing the whole point of installing a stove, i.e. that (fuelled with sustainably-grown timber) it is carbon neutral. And in these climate emergency times, moving over to a carbon-neutral heatsource is absolutely essential.

    N.B. Owners of new properties will, in any case, have little choice but to put in a DEFRA stove or briquette-burning fire. That is, if they want the comfort and independence of a real fire. Reason being, that gasfires are to be banned in newbuilds. A ban which really does bode well for the future of the stove industry.


    Using the comparison of your smokey diesel transit isn't the finest idea you have had.

    Of course even the old van is tested each year for emissions each year unlike the stove .

    Its fuel also tested.

    They are also being taxed off the road.

    The fairy tale notion that only certified fuel is burnt in stoves is at best fanciful the reality is many are fuelled by almost anything their owners find to burn you know this but won't admit it.

  13. #71
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    Community < 2.5 µm particulate emissions

    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    N.B. Owners of new properties will, in any case, have little choice but to put in a DEFRA stove or briquette-burning fire. That is, if they want the comfort and independence of a real fire. Reason being, that gasfires are to be banned in newbuilds. A ban which really does bode well for the future of the stove industry.
    Note an important distinction between:
    1. low GHG emissions by means of carbon neutral fuel for stoves on the one hand; and
    2. the local air quality issue on the other.
    I suspect that air quality trumps low GHG emissions. Without filtration of small < 2.5 µm particulate emissions, wood burning stoves will also be banned. Certainly so in urban spaces; but likely also any location where particulates exceed some arbitrarily small threshold.
    Bodes ill for unreconstructed stove users. For the sake of the industry, I hope the technology comes online, soon!

  14. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    You know, it could be. Smells like when people are burning garden waste, but I suppose it might be a coal fire. Although there's one in the Cheshire Lines that doesn't smell lie that, inside or out.

    I can always smell it in that particular area. Doesn't half reek.
    Could be that it is being used for waste disposal such as packaging.

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  16. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    Could be that it is being used for waste disposal such as packaging.

    Could be, but whoever it is must be burning a lot. Every time I pass that corner onto Anchor St, it smells of burning.

  17. #74
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    So many are used as handy incinerators throwing allsorts into the atmosphere for the poor neighbours to absorb.

    They really are for the selfish who don't care about air quality and the effects on our planet.

    Can you imagine the outcry if someone stoked up their van with household rubbish, old window frames and pallets.

    Even the so called responsibly sourced fuel requires the destruction of forests and wildlife.

  18. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    A) So many are used as handy incinerators throwing allsorts into the atmosphere for the poor neighbours to absorb...They really are for the selfish who don't care about air quality and the effects on our planet.

    B) Can you imagine the outcry if someone stoked up their van with household rubbish, old window frames and pallets.

    C) Even the so called responsibly sourced fuel requires the destruction of forests and wildlife.
    A) You could say the same for any fire, from a traditional fireplace to a typical garden bonfire....I see no reason whatsoever to single out woodstove owners about it.

    B) Back in the day of steampowered trucks, they probably did! And then there's the ones who run on red diesel and/or cooking fat.

    C) Far from it, responsibly sourced fuel requires the planting of woodland first before it's harvested - otherwise how can it possibly be described as 'responsible'?
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