Keir Starmer

[Hamble]

The truth is that she was right, the Tories have reduced CGT it was Income Tax rates when Cameron became PM, it is now 18%, Neil was wrong, he raised his voice more than she did and he was doing the talking over and interrupting.
She'll eat Gove alive.

?
Angela Raynor was doing a said!
Unacceptable and could not go unchallenged.

[Alikado]

?
Angela Raynor was doing a said!
Unacceptable and could not go unchallenged.

No her figures were right, Neill was wrong.

[Hamble]

The truth is that she was right, the Tories have reduced CGT it was Income Tax rates when Cameron became PM, it is now 18%, Neil was wrong, he raised his voice more than she did and he was doing the talking over and interrupting.
She'll eat Gove alive.

What do you mean CGT was Income Tax?

[Hamble]

Quote
"Changes to capital gains tax since 2010 may have boosted revenues next year
Similarly, Labour says there have been £0.8 billion worth of capital gains tax “giveaways”.

Capital gains tax is paid on profits from selling an asset. For example, if you buy shares in a company and their value increases then you pay tax on the profit you make when you sell them.

Labour is talking about a specific decision in March 2016 to reduce the higher rate of capital gains tax from 28% to 20% and the basic rate from 18% to 10%.

The Coalition increased the higher rate in the first place, from 18% to 28% in 2010, and there have been other changes to capital gains tax that have boosted the government’s revenues.

For example, the 2015 Summer Budget brought in measures to counter tax planning strategies used by private equity firms and hedge funds. That was expected to boost revenues by an average of £384 million per year over the next five years, about two and a half times the annual cost of cutting the main rate.

Changes to capital gains tax since 2010 have tended to increase government revenue"

https://fullfact.org/economy/have-co...orth-tax-cuts/


Like said AR has form.

https://fullfact.org/election-2019/a...-tuition-fees/

https://fullfact.org/health/angela-r...people-tested/

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...e-school-meals

[Toodles McGinty]

https://fullfact.org/election-2019/a...-tuition-fees/

https://fullfact.org/health/angela-r...people-tested/

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...e-school-meals

Wrong on the tuition fees.

Debatable on the others, depends on the interpretation.

Are we sticking with Rayner, or is this open to 'all politicians that mislead the public / tell lies / got numbers wrong'?

I know we've already had a mention of Abbott. Could be a long thread. Or make it easier: 'politicians that have never misled the public / tell lies / got numbers wrong'.

Interesting article in the Graun on Sunday regarding Rayner:

Jim McMahon, the Oldham MP who ran the Hartlepool byelection campaign, told a meeting with the leader’s office that Rayner had been “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to the town on 21 March.

Obviously she must have been dressed in a patent leather basque and sporting a 'kill the Queen' hat, wouldn't you think?

Thank the Lord she isn't black, eh?

[Hamble]

Wrong on the tuition fees.

Debatable on the others, depends on the interpretation.

Are we sticking with Rayner, or is this open to 'all politicians that mislead the public / tell lies / got numbers wrong'?

I know we've already had a mention of Abbott. Could be a long thread. Or make it easier: 'politicians that have never misled the public / tell lies / got numbers wrong'.

Interesting article in the Graun on Sunday regarding Rayner:

Jim McMahon, the Oldham MP who ran the Hartlepool byelection campaign, told a meeting with the leader’s office that Rayner had been “dressed inappropriately” on a visit to the town on 21 March.

Obviously she must have been dressed in a patent leather basque and sporting a 'kill the Queen' hat, wouldn't you think?

Thank the Lord she isn't black, eh?

I read 'Grangeler'.

It is difficult not AR's fault.
I put it down to perception of what/who Labour voters want to vote for.

Labour head office seem to be saying they want politicians to dress like Tory's keep 'working class' assets such as an accent and attachment to
(any) Northern town.

[Toodles McGinty]

I read 'Grangeler'.

It is difficult not AR's fault.
I put it down to perception of what/who Labour voters want to vote for.

Labour head office seem to be saying they want politicians to dress like Tory's keep 'working class' assets such as an accent and attachment to
(any) Northern town.

Labour's head office seemingly don't know there arses from their elbows.

Another 'focus group' on how women dress? **** that.

English politics is so screwed. The government is corrupt. The PM is a lying psychopath. The Opposition actually isn't. And once again, nobody cares.

Glad to see the Greens getting a good showing, though. Might be worth a vote in about 60 years.

[local]

Rayner v Gove, even the most optimistic Labour supporter knows oily Gove is in a different league.

Starmer is so short of big hitters he is recycling his rejects after pressure from the party.

[Hamble]

Labour's head office seemingly don't know there arses from their elbows.

Another 'focus group' on how women dress? **** that.

English politics is so screwed. The government is corrupt. The PM is a lying psychopath. The Opposition actually isn't. And once again, nobody cares.

Glad to see the Greens getting a good showing, though. Might be worth a vote in about 60 years.

The Government is working.
People are dying to live in this country.

Labour voters have got to stop blaming everything but their own shortcomings.

[Toodles McGinty]

The Government is working.
People are dying to live in this country.

Labour voters have got to stop blaming everything but their own shortcomings.

It isn't 'working'. Unless you are a billionaire.

The government is corrupt. The PM is a lying psychopath. That isn't 'working'. It's putting billions in the hands of cronies and Tory donors.

The government is riding high on Brexit, the effects of which haven't kicked in yet. And on a vaccine bounce, that is down to the NHS and the hundreds of thousands of volunteers that helped make it work.

People are dying to live in this country? Because it's better than whatever hell hole they come from? They are also dying to go to France, Italy, Denmark, any European country they can make a home.

But I agree that Labour need to face their shortcomings. They should present policies that mean something. Or at least consider a progressive alliance and PR. Obviously can't rely on the intelligence of the electorate. Perhaps they should promise more food banks.

Now there's voter suppression coming up.

Better waiting for that Green vote to mean something.

[Hamble]

It isn't 'working'. Unless you are a billionaire.

The government is corrupt. The PM is a lying psychopath. That isn't 'working'. It's putting billions in the hands of cronies and Tory donors.

The government is riding high on Brexit, the effects of which haven't kicked in yet. And on a vaccine bounce, that is down to the NHS and the hundreds of thousands of volunteers that helped make it work.

People are dying to live in this country? Because it's better than whatever hell hole they come from? They are also dying to go to France, Italy, Denmark, any European country they can make a home.

But I agree that Labour need to face their shortcomings. They should present policies that mean something. Or at least consider a progressive alliance and PR. Obviously can't rely on the intelligence of the electorate. Perhaps they should promise more food banks.

Now there's voter suppression coming up.

Better waiting for that Green vote to mean something.

Labour is not listening.
You are not listening.

[Desert Region]

Labour is not listening.
You are not listening.

Most political parties pay lip service to listening, despite the amounts they spend on internal polling, focus groups, etc.

But it's from Labour (and the Lib Dems) you'll most often hear it parroted that the electorate is stupid, by which they mean to refer to those in the electorate who vote for the Tories especially if those voters "should" be voting Labour.

In Labour supporters' "us and them" narrative if you voted Tory, but you "should" have voted Labour, then you're thick, and probably racist, too.

When Labour lose, the standard reaction is that it's the fault of the voters and externals such as right-wing media. Sometimes those factors are combined into a narrative of a cunning, evil media brainwashing stupid, gullible voters.

Apparently, there was a time when it was mainly the Tories who considered themselves intellectually superior. The Tories still do, but nowadays it's most often Labour supporters who are most vocal about talking about the stupidity of voters. Indeed, it seems something of a fixation for them.

The next time the people of Hartlepool are voting on their representative, perhaps Labour could formally try out the following campaign message: "People of Hartlepool, stop being gullible, monkey-hanging racists who are so thick you vote against your interests. Instead, vote for us - vote Labour."

Would that be intelligent?

[Hamble]

Most political parties pay lip service to listening, despite the amounts they spend on internal polling, focus groups, etc.

But it's from Labour (and the Lib Dems) you'll most often hear it parroted that the electorate is stupid, by which they mean to refer to those in the electorate who vote for the Tories especially if those voters "should" be voting Labour.

In Labour supporters' "us and them" narrative if you voted Tory, but you "should" have voted Labour, then you're thick, and probably racist, too.

When Labour lose, the standard reaction is that it's the fault of the voters and externals such as right-wing media. Sometimes those factors are combined into a narrative of a cunning, evil media brainwashing stupid, gullible voters.

Apparently, there was a time when it was mainly the Tories who considered themselves intellectually superior. The Tories still do, but nowadays it's most often Labour supporters who are most vocal about talking about the stupidity of voters. Indeed, it seems something of a fixation for them.

The next time the people of Hartlepool are voting on their representative, perhaps Labour could formally try out the following campaign message: "People of Hartlepool, stop being gullible, monkey-hanging racists who are so thick you vote against your interests. Instead, vote for us - vote Labour."

Would that be intelligent?

You are so right -could not have put it better.

I am afraid AR has insulted the voters of Hartlepool.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-election-tory

[Alikado]

What do you mean CGT was Income Tax?

Income Tax Rates, they were linked.

[Toodles McGinty]

Labour is not listening.
You are not listening.

Whether or not Labour isn't listening is neither here nor there. They don't listen, they don't get in power. Simple as that. If they want to appeal to old racists who have got some kind of Stockholm syndrome that they believe that 9 food banks is something of an achievement, or that Labour 'closed their police stations', or Labour put up a remain voting candidate in one of the highest 'leave' voting areas of the country, that's not my problem. That's sheer stupidity.

I'm not listening? To whom? The corrupt government? The lying psychopath in charge?

Or the sycophants who would support them even if they killed tens of thousands of people? Which they have. And you do.

All Johnson does is tell Trumpian lies, bendy bananas, Turks invading, couldn't have free ports in the E.U, couldn't have done our own vaccine roll out, couldn't have stopped the super league...and like Trump he has millions of lower educated older voters queuing up to swallow them. Yes, Johnson may get up to no good; but as long as he represents their values, they’re willing to stick by his side. Those values include championing a Britain that is anti-immigration and nationalistic, as well as protecting economic interests through the continuation of house price inflation, all while being flagrantly corrupt and maintaining an open hostility towards those who need taxpayer-funded help.

You either agree with that, or, as has been mentioned, you just don't care. I suspect it's a combination of the two.