Donald Trump & Joe Biden

[sandGroundZero]

But to change the political institutions, there needs to be an appetite for it.

…I'd have liked to see where 'The Independent Group' ended up. …

I note with interest your reference to The Independent Group of MPs. Members of Parliament are irredeemably embedded in the institutions that need to change. (Perhaps most Party members, too. Are you in a position to offer insight? I wonder.)

• Meaningful change will only occur when the electorate is mobilized — an obvious conundrum!
• The solution to this puzzle is to radically make-over local government. I suspect MPs could be persuaded to enable that.

I do not expect you to imbibe the detail of my idea (at this point), but the object is to engage residents in matters of immediate concern (typically, local) by means of a well designed interface such that they experience their democratic power, directly. That is the start.

Ultimately, there is a problem with the way we choose our representatives. I have long felt that the demands on our wannabe politicians actually exclude all but a small minority — individuals with unrepresentative personality traits (as you might say). The idea of alternative ways of selecting democratic representatives seems far-fetched at first glance. But they're not as outlandish as you might currently believe. Granted this sounds bizarre, perhaps especially so for individuals who engage in politics as it currently is practised. However, I urge you not to discount it.

I believe that as the taste for more thoroughgoing democracy develops, then the institutional inertia can be overcome. Do not doubt, institutional inertia needs overcoming. National institutions — parliament certainly — but governmental institutions of which parliament is the pinnacle.

The world is changing. Democracy is becoming its antithesis before our eyes. SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

[Alikado]

The problem with Politics in USA and in this country is the 2 Party System, which is pure political dogma and not for the good of the Country or the People, it is in fact near to a dictatorship, only a handful have power and the rest of the politicians only make up the numbers. We would have better Government if we had Consensus Politics with coalitions of several parties such as in Germany, too many of our Politicians are Career Politicians what we need are Conviction Politicians who believe in doing good and the right thing for the country and the people and not the vested interests.

[Toodles McGinty]

The problem with Politics in USA and in this country is the 2 Party System, which is pure political dogma and not for the good of the Country or the People, it is in fact near to a dictatorship, only a handful have power and the rest of the politicians only make up the numbers. We would have better Government if we had Consensus Politics with coalitions of several parties such as in Germany, too many of our Politicians are Career Politicians what we need are Conviction Politicians who believe in doing good and the right thing for the country and the people and not the vested interests.

I recall watching a TV show years ago. Can't remember what is was called. It was a drama and one thread involved a newly elected congressman's first days in Washington. Most of her time was taken up by meeting lobbyists willing to cross her palm with silver in exchange for questions and votes in favour of their clients. Serving the people had little to do with it. Both Democrats and Republicans faced the same situation.

I imagine it wasn't too wide of the mark.

Not sure if there are echoes of that here. There seem to be politicians who become engaged through ideology and a genuine desire to serve, and those expected to enter politics from an early age and fast tracked through the system. If I had to compare, I'd say the first would be a John Major or Theresa May vs. David Cameron or Boris Johnson.

It is a great pity that all of our politicians aren't motivated by serving the country. I think that's quite an old fashioned concept now, when media barons have a greater influence over the electorate than politicians. When a sexual encounter with a dead pig has less effect than the method of eating a bacon butty. We could do with a full system, try turning it off and on again, overhaul. Even then, I suspect that Murdoch and co would still be the kingmakers.

[sandGroundZero]

Irrespective of their personal qualities at the outset, politicians' work is within institutions.

• Political parties are institutions which are themselves constrained to work within wider political institutions.
• Trade unions and professional bodies are institutions at the periphery of the politics of local and national government.
• So too, the public service providers.
• The UK's famously 'unwritten' constitution; the Royal court and royal paraphernalia are institutional constraints.

The weight of a long history of traditions surrounding Parliament have evolved more-or-less slowly. The received wisdom is that those traditions have evolved to accommodate democracy. The reality is institutions have evolved to contain democracy as opposed to allowing democracy to flourish. Democracy does not stand still; either it develops, or is dwindles.

DEMOCRACY is a perennial aspiration to expand the scope of human rights and dignity.

Next: It's NOT about politicians. It is about citizens!

[Toodles McGinty]

Irrespective of their personal qualities at the outset, politicians' work is within institutions.

• Political parties are institutions which are themselves constrained to work within wider political institutions.
• Trade unions and professional bodies are institutions at the periphery of the politics of local and national government.
• So too, the public service providers.
• The UK's famously 'unwritten' constitution; the Royal court and royal paraphernalia are institutional constraints.

The weight of a long history of traditions surrounding Parliament have evolved more-or-less slowly. The received wisdom is that those traditions have evolved to accommodate democracy. The reality is institutions have evolved to contain democracy as opposed to allowing democracy to flourish. Democracy does not stand still; either it develops, or is dwindles.

DEMOCRACY is a perennial aspiration to expand the scope of human rights and dignity.

Next: It's NOT about politicians. It is about citizens!

I reckon to make any impact on those institutions would take a revolution of French proportions.

Not that I'm opposed to that. I'll fetch my knitting.

[sandGroundZero]

I reckon to make any impact on those institutions would take a revolution of French proportions.
Not that I'm opposed to that. I'll fetch my knitting.

Toodles McGinty post #20

No guillotines; no barricades; maybe a little storming of the citadels of bureaucracy.

The first stage is to agitate for a change in the structures of local government. Apply technology — a deep learning algorithm, here and there; a user-friendly interface to give residents access and insight to the functions of local administrations.

Central government has reduced Councils' cash flow while piling-on the statutory obligations. Open the windows and doors of the town halls to show how and why things get done, OR NOT!

I'm not persuaded that Southport's Councillors make the impact their newsletters would have us believe. It need not be arcane and obscure.

Of course, that's just the beginning.

[sandGroundZero]

Hey! Let's not forget


It's about ME!
Listen up, Southport. This thread is about me,
President Donald J. Trump

Oh, yeah; also Sleepy Joe Biden duh!

[grassroots]

In reply to the OP, in my opinion neither of the two are worthy of such high office . In the past one did business with the " Mob " the other I'd rather not comment on .

[sandGroundZero]

“You’ve got more questions?” Biden replied. “Well, I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”

Every time Joe Biden opens his mouth, he talks out his backside!
Do the right thing, Joe. Stand down.

[sandGroundZero]

According to Associated Press Joe Biden has achieved the requisite number of delegates to ensure his nomination as Democratic Presidential candidate. Of course, his lead was such that no one doubted he was the presumptive candidate. Nevertheless, crossing the threshold is significant.

Joe Biden & Donald Trump

[sandGroundZero]

The author of a biography of Melania Trump suggested that Mrs. T thought Mike Pence was the best choice for V.P. on account of his blandness being no threat to The Donald's limelight.

Mike Pence & Kamala Harris

With the Democrats, is it the other way around …?

[local]

If ever there was a time for Richard Pryors (Brewsters Millions) none of the above candidate this must surely be it.

Trump was a necessary emetic instead of the self entitled and ghastly Hillary Clinton.

He should have opened the country up to a radical candidate with gravitas and vision.

Instead we get the lack lustre Biden and the Black mercenary Kamala Harris to oppose him.

He might just scrape back in at this rate, why are the Democrats so unable to find someone to wipe the floor with him ?
He isn't making it hard for them is he.

[Toodles McGinty]

The author of a biography of Melania Trump suggested that Mrs. T thought Mike Pence was the best choice for V.P. on account of his blandness being no threat to The Donald's limelight.

Mike Pence & Kamala Harris

With the Democrats, is it the other way around …?

I've read quite a lot of people are saying that if Biden wins, he'll stay in office around 2 years, then hand the reins to Harris.

So yes, I believe that Biden was the candidate chosen for the return of a steady hand on the tiller, but it's Harris that will excite the Asian, black and female vote. I reckon the limelight will be shone on the VP should they win.

[seivad]

If ever there was a time for Richard Pryors (Brewsters Millions) none of the above candidate this must surely be it.

Trump was a necessary emetic instead of the self entitled and ghastly Hillary Clinton.

He should have opened the country up to a radical candidate with gravitas and vision.

Instead we get the lack lustre Biden and the Black mercenary Kamala Harris to oppose him.

He might just scrape back in at this rate, why are the Democrats so unable to find someone to wipe the floor with him ?
He isn't making it hard for them is he.

It's the first time I've heard Kamala Harris described as a 'black mercenary' Where on earth did you get that idea? Have you studied her career/record in the Senate, as San Francisco DA and AG of California?

Maybe you should apply to work on Team Trump. His hackneyed playbook needs updating.

[seivad]

If ever there was a time for Richard Pryors (Brewsters Millions) none of the above candidate this must surely be it.

Trump was a necessary emetic instead of the self entitled and ghastly Hillary Clinton.

He should have opened the country up to a radical candidate with gravitas and vision.

Instead we get the lack lustre Biden and the Black mercenary Kamala Harris to oppose him.

He might just scrape back in at this rate, why are the Democrats so unable to find someone to wipe the floor with him ?
He isn't making it hard for them is he.

I forgot to address this point. You're confusing the way the US finds a potential leader with the way the UK finds their leader. Political parties don't vote for a potential President, the American people do in the Primaries.

Joe Biden wouldn't have been my choice.There were many other candidates, who, in my opinion, would have been a far better choice. Don't confuse his election as Presidential candidate as an indication that 'the Democrats are so unable to find someone to wipe the floor with him' The people elected him, so that's who they got.