House of Commons Conga

[Toodles McGinty]

Well that was a sight to behold today.

MPs in a mile long queue to vote on whether or not MPs could vote from outside the House of Commons.

It was the brainchild of Rees Moog, who spent quite a bit of last year trying to shut Parliament, and now wants the Commons open in the middle of a pandemic.

All things considered, it might be better to let MPs vote from the safety of their own homes, as they struggled at walking and saying 'Aye' or 'No'.

So why does Mogg want people in Parliament, when they had a perfectly good system for voting remotely a few weeks ago?

Even if he gets his own way, social distancing rules mean no more than 50 MPs can be in the Commons at once. Is this another attempt at strangling democracy?

[silver fox]

Well that was a sight to behold today.

MPs in a mile long queue to vote on whether or not MPs could vote from outside the House of Commons.

It was the brainchild of Rees Moog, who spent quite a bit of last year trying to shut Parliament, and now wants the Commons open in the middle of a pandemic.

All things considered, it might be better to let MPs vote from the safety of their own homes, as they struggled at walking and saying 'Aye' or 'No'.

So why does Mogg want people in Parliament, when they had a perfectly good system for voting remotely a few weeks ago?

Even if he gets his own way, social distancing rules mean no more than 50 MPs can be in the Commons at once. Is this another attempt at strangling democracy?

With Mogg's methods I would reckon his plan is to exclude all votes from MPs not actually in the chamber, restricted and quite probably selected numbers will make Parliament so much easier to CONTROL.

Democracy isn't his strong point, much rather authoritarian even dictatorship.

[local]

MP's voting in person is the bedrock of our democracy, the matter is the subject of a democratic vote.

The vote, 261 votes to 163 in favour.

It has to be remembered this vote will stand long after coronavirus has retreated (for who knows how long).

Mp's making decisions on our lives need to be there, the distance learning option some wanted is very second rate.

[Hamble]

Is this all because the bar and canteen is closed?

[Toodles McGinty]

With Mogg's methods I would reckon his plan is to exclude all votes from MPs not actually in the chamber, restricted and quite probably selected numbers will make Parliament so much easier to CONTROL.

Democracy isn't his strong point, much rather authoritarian even dictatorship.

Not when a huge amount of MPs couldn't vote, as they were shielding, or vulnerable.

So if Mogg gets his way, 50 MPs get to vote on issues that should be voted on by 650? And an issue today that only some MPs could vote on, not all?

Pretty sure there are all sorts of laws against this, not least of all discrimination. Discrimination against older MPs, vulnerable MPs and given the information over the past few weeks, discrimination against BAME MPs. I'd think in the current climate, that last one alone is a very, very bad idea.

Then there is the fact that Mogg is forcing people to be without representation in Parliament.

What an absolute farce. It certainly isn't any kind of democracy.

Don't think this will end well.

[Hamble]

Not when a huge amount of MPs couldn't vote, as they were shielding, or vulnerable.

So if Mogg gets his way, 50 MPs get to vote on issues that should be voted on by 650? And an issue today that only some MPs could vote on, not all?

Pretty sure there are all sorts of laws against this, not least of all discrimination. Discrimination against older MPs, vulnerable MPs and given the information over the past few weeks, discrimination against BAME MPs. I'd think in the current climate, that last one alone is a very, very bad idea.

Then there is the fact that Mogg is forcing people to be without representation in Parliament.

What an absolute farce. It certainly isn't any kind of democracy.

Don't think this will end well.

Mogg will cave.

[Toodles McGinty]

Mogg will cave.

I'm not so sure. Might do.

Or might take another session in front of the Supreme Court first.

Shame Brenda has retired, she was entertaining.

[sandGroundZero]

Is this another attempt at strangling democracy? post #1

Democracy isn't [Rees-Mogg's] strong point, much rather authoritarian even dictatorship. post #2

MP's voting in person is the bedrock of our democracy, the matter is the subject of a democratic vote. post #3

The leader of the House of Commons is exploiting an unprecedented situation to subvert for short-term advantage — as they do — our supposedly democratic legislative chamber.

Members of parliament pass through a succession of filters before they attain that position. To note just two such filters:

1. (with rare exceptions) member in good standing of a party;
2. stand for election.

You may argue point number 2 is the definition of our democracy, but considered another way standing for election is a strong filter favouring eccentric (to put it politely) personalities.

Though on the face of it this is a bald argument, the fact remains there are many opportunities for politicians at all levels to be nobbled, suborned or simply persuaded by special interests. Democracy has become a label useful to cover all manner of ways to rule. In the Commons, notably, rule by 'the people' is a trifling consideration.

(As I have said before) our political institutions have evolved to contain democracy, not to let it flourish!

…[the PM and Dom Cummings] have similar self-regard as brilliant mavericks who can ignore rules meant for little people.
…The chief strategist is the stiff mould into which the jelly of Johnson’s gut impulses is poured. Once set, the doctrine can then hold its shape, albeit with a wobble. That function is especially important for Eurosceptic ultras.
…That is not “honesty” in the commonly understood sense of the word that involves verifiable truth. In the Eurosceptic usage it means loyalty to an idea of Brexit, for the sake of which all dishonesties are permitted.

extracts from an article by Rafael Behr ex: the Guardian

The Leader of the House's tactical manoeuvre is par for the course, as that institution currently is.

[local]

When commenting across this issue remember that the House Of Lords already used by some as a cash machine ( keep taxi waiting, rush in sign on and go)
is crammed with, vulnerable, shielding oh and a few plain old couldn't be bothered members.

Having a system where you haven't got to show your face or physically turn up will suit quite a few who will claim their allowance from the Grouse Moors and holiday homes.

People are queueing for Ikea so democracy doesn't seem to bad a thing to wait for and it might concentrate their minds to improve the system.

[sandGroundZero]

When commenting across this issue remember that the House Of Lords already used by some as a cash machine ( keep taxi waiting, rush in sign on and go) is crammed with, vulnerable, shielding oh and a few plain old couldn't be bothered members.
Having a system where you haven't got to show your face or physically turn up will suit quite a few who will claim their allowance from the Grouse Moors and holiday homes.
People are queueing for Ikea so democracy doesn't seem to bad a thing to wait for and it might concentrate their minds to improve the system.

post #9

This thread is about House of Commons procedures.

1. MPs are paid a salary (plus generous expenses).
2. queuing around the block to vote is possibly as effective a systemic improvement as say, PR.

The cliché 'arranging the deck chairs …' is apropos of blinkers around institutional reform.

[local]

And cemented to the House of Commons is the House of Lords,

the so called revising chamber is inextricably linked as things stand.

I am queuing a lot as we all are, the onus is on the Members to improve things.

Perhaps all votes for the weeks business could be done at once where possible ?

[Alikado]

The problem could easily be solved with a bit of technology, it is aechaic the they have to go through a lobby and physically be counted, install some ATM type machines in the lobbies and give them an electronic card, swipe it and press button A or button B and Bobs your Uncle, if they can't manage that then they shouldn't be there.

[Hamble]

The problem could easily be solved with a bit of technology, it is aechaic the they have to go through a lobby and physically be counted, install some ATM type machines in the lobbies and give them an electronic card, swipe it and press button A or button B and Bobs your Uncle, if they can't manage that then they shouldn't be there.

The nhs has worked around the problem of technology for disabled and shielding politicians working from home.

Once the pressure reaches a certain point Mogg will have permission to fund it.

[sandGroundZero]

The problem could easily be solved with a bit of technology, it is aechaic the they have to go through a lobby and physically be counted, install some ATM type machines in the lobbies and give them an electronic card, swipe it and press button A or button B and Bobs your Uncle, if they can't manage that then they shouldn't be there.

post #12

…or, carry on as they have done over the past few weeks.

[Alikado]

…or, carry on as they have done over the past few weeks.

That's not an option it is perverting Democracy enabling the Government to escape scrutiny, it is high time they had a more modern voting system. Whenever another Parliament is shown on the TV the MP's are shown sitting at individual desks with microphones and buttons to press for voting and to attract the speakers attention, time to abandon the decaying Westminster an move to a purpose built facility.