Has Southport improved in any way, or is it getting worse

[Lamparilla]

Thanks, Lamparila . l do agree with you that it was a mistake to align Southport with Liverpool as opposed to Lancashire. The population had always looked more northwards culturally although the travel was/is in the other direction when it comes to work. Rail cuts etc have only increased the effect. My objection was to the classification of ALL Scousers in the way you did. I don't think it was necessary but accept your reasoning. I don't think you can call it social engneering either as that implies a long-standing plan and something shady, like the phrase designer babies which has overtones of something else. I also agree that changing the make up of a society against their will especially when it is en masse and at speed, never works.

Thanks.

I didn't actually mention Scousers in my original post, and it's largely irrelevant when you consider how widespread this was in the 1960s and 1970s. The planners thought that 'new towns' would solve all the problems, but they created a lot of their own. I do think it was 'shady' in some cases, with deals done between local authorities and developers, but that's another story.

[muddyboots]

Thirty years ago, Southport was a lovely town and all the inhabitants formed a community in which people were polite, caring and friendly. One person's view was shared by all, all topics were shared in quiet intimacy.

Children were well educated with parents taking a great interest and encouraging them on. At one time, it was said that more children in Southport attended university than any other area outside of London. Many children belonged to one club or more, Scouts, Guides, Sea Scouts, Venture Scouts, Music etc.,

Now that community spirit appears to be lost. Few children attend clubs outside of school and there are far fewer children going on to Universities. It would appear that there are more egotists who chase self esteem in preference to knowledge, manners are seen as a sign of oppression. More people enjoy their own braying, believing that the louder they are the more important they appear to be. Some even go so far as to set up loudspeakers and microphones, under the impression that musical knowledge is not necessary, just so long as you make a noise. Many children tend to shout and scream to one another instead of talk, antisocial behaviour is far more common now.

Has the community become less educated now? Does consideration for the children and neighbours no longer count? Or have more outside people moved in bringing their bad habits with them? Will Southport ever return to being a community, or is that now lost forever? As a community, we all worked together to make Southport the town it was - is this proof that there is no longer a community?

those times were really fantastic...my young childhood with my friends spent in our town were idylic...roaming the town with no risk...the outdoor swimming pool, the ymca, the fair, promenade, etc etc...every family knew each other good and bad and there was a check involved in the behaviour so they we were safe.....would anyone in todays southport allow their child to spend the day at the age of 10 all day roaming alone with their schoolfriends....our town now is a scary place with new arrivals from various dodgy places around the globe...i dont feel safe in the town myself let alone a child!....very sadly our town is now finished...visit it to do what you need and then get the hell out...i can pinpoint the change to the day the eu free movement started....if we could only turn the clock back

[salus.populi]

Thirty years ago, Southport was a lovely town and all the inhabitants formed a community in which people were polite, caring and friendly. One person's view was shared by all, all topics were shared in quiet intimacy.

Children were well educated with parents taking a great interest and encouraging them on. At one time, it was said that more children in Southport attended university than any other area outside of London. Many children belonged to one club or more, Scouts, Guides, Sea Scouts, Venture Scouts, Music etc.,

Now that community spirit appears to be lost. Few children attend clubs outside of school and there are far fewer children going on to Universities. It would appear that there are more egotists who chase self esteem in preference to knowledge, manners are seen as a sign of oppression. More people enjoy their own braying, believing that the louder they are the more important they appear to be. Some even go so far as to set up loudspeakers and microphones, under the impression that musical knowledge is not necessary, just so long as you make a noise. Many children tend to shout and scream to one another instead of talk, antisocial behaviour is far more common now.

Has the community become less educated now? Does consideration for the children and neighbours no longer count? Or have more outside people moved in bringing their bad habits with them? Will Southport ever return to being a community, or is that now lost forever? As a community, we all worked together to make Southport the town it was - is this proof that there is no longer a community?

Have you got any actual facts about university attendance, club membership etc in 1990 compared to 2020?
My kids in 2020 have far more opportunities to join sporting clubs and youth organisations than I did at the same age, thought that would have been late 70s to early 80s.
Some things are better, some are worse. I'd still prefer to live and raise kids here than the vast majority of the rest of the country.

[salus.populi]

those times were really fantastic...my young childhood with my friends spent in our town were idylic...roaming the town with no risk...the outdoor swimming pool

It does amuse me that people of a certain generation recall the halcyon days of their youth spending all day unsupervised half naked at the outdoor pool.

Of course if the pool still existed today those same people wouldn't allow their children or grandchildren to do the same because of the risk posed to them from some people of a certain generation.

So ask yourself which generation has ****ed it all up for today's.

[Toodles McGinty]

those times were really fantastic...my young childhood with my friends spent in our town were idylic...roaming the town with no risk...the outdoor swimming pool, the ymca, the fair, promenade, etc etc...every family knew each other good and bad and there was a check involved in the behaviour so they we were safe.....would anyone in todays southport allow their child to spend the day at the age of 10 all day roaming alone with their schoolfriends....

I'd say every place was like that years ago. Although in Southport, none of it would have been viable without people from out of town.

our town now is a scary place with new arrivals from various dodgy places around the globe...i dont feel safe in the town myself let alone a child!....very sadly our town is now finished...visit it to do what you need and then get the hell out...i can pinpoint the change to the day the eu free movement started....if we could only turn the clock back

Go to the 'News' section. Type 'murder' in the search box. See how many scary foreigners are responsible. The scum who killed his wife and chopped her body up, the ginger moron who killed a chap quite recently, the ******* that killed the poor woman at the travel agent on Chapel St, etc etc. Any of them pop over from Poland?

Of course, if you convince yourself all these foreigners are scary, then you'll find bogeymen everywhere. Your bigotry has turned in on you. Just wondering, genuine question, would you refuse to be treated by any of these foreigners at the hospital? Or would you insist on waiting around for a 'local'? If you ever need blood, will you ensure it's good British blood?

[said]

those times were really fantastic...my young childhood with my friends spent in our town were idylic...roaming the town with no risk...the outdoor swimming pool, the ymca, the fair, promenade, etc etc...every family knew each other good and bad and there was a check involved in the behaviour so they we were safe.....would anyone in todays southport allow their child to spend the day at the age of 10 all day roaming alone with their schoolfriends....our town now is a scary place with new arrivals from various dodgy places around the globe...i dont feel safe in the town myself let alone a child!....very sadly our town is now finished...visit it to do what you need and then get the hell out...i can pinpoint the change to the day the eu free movement started....if we could only turn the clock back

Well, that was an accurate description of the good old days for day time life. The activities of the dark hours were a bit rougher. The Playboy Club, The taxi wars, the ice cream wars, the doormen wars. The James Brothers, Kray twins and the Richardsons, an early morning shoot out over East Bank Bridge. The murders of the tobacconist, the Shoe Shop guy and Nick the Greek, etc., - not exactly a quiet town, only in the day time. The deterioration of the whole of the UK could be placed at the time of mass immigration, this is supported on many counts.

[sandGroundZero]

"Thirty years ago, Southport was a lovely town and all the inhabitants formed a community in which people were polite, caring and friendly. One person's view was shared by all, all topics were shared in quiet intimacy. …"Now that community spirit appears to be lost. …It would appear that there are more egotists who chase self esteem in preference to knowledge, manners are seen as a sign of oppression. …antisocial behaviour is far more common now.
"Has the community become less educated now? Does consideration for the children and neighbours no longer count? Or have more outside people moved in bringing their bad habits with them? Will Southport ever return to being a community, or is that now lost forever? As a community, we all worked together to make Southport the town it was - is this proof that there is no longer a community?"

post #1

Community appears six times — the original post offers defining characteristics of what IS and IS NOT community.

Evident in some subsequent posts is an implicit exclusivity and social distinction associated with community.

"In 1974, the reorganisation of local authorities took Southport out of Lancashire and dumped it into the newly-created Merseyside."
"…but the social engineering led to the economic decline because they shipped out people from areas of economic decline and created new ones elsewhere.
"The planners thought that 'new towns' would solve all the problems, but they created a lot of their own.""

Lamparilla's post #10, post #14 and post #16[/URL] respecitively

Are we meant to believe that community necessarily divides us from our neighbours?

[muddyboots]

[QUOTE=said;6731370]Well, that was an accurate description of the good old days for day time life. The activities of the dark hours were a bit rougher. The Playboy Club, The taxi wars, the ice cream wars, the doormen wars. The James Brothers, Kray twins and the Richardsons, an early morning shoot out over East Bank Bridge. The murders of the tobacconist, the Shoe Shop guy and Nick the Greek, etc., - not exactly a quiet town, only in the day time. The deterioration of the whole of the UK could be placed at the time of mass immigration, this is supported on many counts.[/QUOT

........there were "local" criminals...but we all knew who they were and they were kept under control...nothing got out of hand...some bad eggs were around and we all knew who they were...dont remember the kray twins in southport though??..please tell me more!...that is interesting!....as a child you knew who to stay away from etc..but as a child it was a safe place to roam and play...the point of this thread is that no child/youth is safe to roam our town on their own today....i remember the kingsway days etc but it was never got as nasty as todays lot!

[Alikado]

"Thirty years ago, Southport was a lovely town and all the inhabitants formed a community in which people were polite, caring and friendly. One person's view was shared by all, all topics were shared in quiet intimacy. …"Now that community spirit appears to be lost. …It would appear that there are more egotists who chase self esteem in preference to knowledge, manners are seen as a sign of oppression. …antisocial behaviour is far more common now.
"Has the community become less educated now? Does consideration for the children and neighbours no longer count? Or have more outside people moved in bringing their bad habits with them? Will Southport ever return to being a community, or is that now lost forever? As a community, we all worked together to make Southport the town it was - is this proof that there is no longer a community?"

post #1

Community appears six times — the original post offers defining characteristics of what IS and IS NOT community.

Evident in some subsequent posts is an implicit exclusivity and social distinction associated with community.

"In 1974, the reorganisation of local authorities took Southport out of Lancashire and dumped it into the newly-created Merseyside."
"…but the social engineering led to the economic decline because they shipped out people from areas of economic decline and created new ones elsewhere.
"The planners thought that 'new towns' would solve all the problems, but they created a lot of their own.""

Lamparilla's post #10, post #14 and post #16[/URL] respecitively

Are we meant to believe that community necessarily divides us from our neighbours?

The 'New Towns' were created before Local Government Reorganisation in 1974, the decline started long before, men came back from the war to end all wars and wanted something better, towns like Southport prospered and expanded then the men were sent away to war again often further afield this time and this generation got a taste for things other than the wine and beer of Europe.

[Chas King]

Well, that was an accurate description of the good old days for day time life. The activities of the dark hours were a bit rougher. The Playboy Club, The taxi wars, the ice cream wars, the doormen wars. The James Brothers, Kray twins and the Richardsons, an early morning shoot out over East Bank Bridge. The murders of the tobacconist, the Shoe Shop guy and Nick the Greek, etc., - not exactly a quiet town, only in the day time. The deterioration of the whole of the UK could be placed at the time of mass immigration, this is supported on many counts.

Wasn't it "Peter the Greek" not Nick the Greek ?

[seivad]

Wasn't it "Peter the Greek" not Nick the Greek ?

Yes, it was Peter the Greek.

I don't recall the Kray twins being in Southport. I think they might have tried their hand in Liverpool though. I remember (Mad) Frankie Fraser of the Richardson gang helping John James with a little problem at the Kingsway. Talking of the Kingsway, I can only remember George James (father) and John James (son). Was there another brother?

[sandGroundZero]

The 'New Towns' were created before Local Government Reorganisation in 1974, the decline started long before, men came back from the war to end all wars and wanted something better, towns like Southport prospered and expanded then the men were sent away to war again often further afield this time and this generation got a taste for things other than the wine and beer of Europe.

Alikado's post #24

Southport's heyday was late 19th and early 20th century, the start of the Great War. It was the belle époque — an era of great inequality of wealth. Manchester and Liverpool cotton traders and exporters wealthy enough to buy elegant homes far from the grime and bad air of their respective places of business came to Southport and the town became an exclusive enclave. Ups and downs of global trade would have had some impact; however, persistent decline is linked with the decline of those cities' business elite. Southport's built environment is costly to maintain to a high standard. The very rich were displaced. Nowadays, those fine houses are residential accommodation for the elderly and infirm, houses of multiple occupation or demolished and replaced by flat blocks.

Socioeconomic changes wrought by the UK's relative industrial decline through much of the 20th century are responsible for general decline, especially in the north of England and regions beyond the sphere of the City of London.

Southport's fall from elegant exclusivity was gradual, but inexorable. None of the posts in this thread take note of the longer term. There's rather a lot of nostalgia and not much else, here.

[seivad]

........there were "local" criminals...but we all knew who they were and they were kept under control...nothing got out of hand...some bad eggs were around and we all knew who they were

The Durkin and the Carran family spring to mind.

[Ceam]

I'd say things are different now, not better or worse.

Kids don't have the freedom they had 30 years ago, Or at least not without being called feral by the generation that had way more freedom than they do. My kids and plenty of other socilize in clubs etc way more than my gerneration ever did. Probably partly down to disposable income of the parents. swimming, gymnastics, boxing, scouts etc.


Not sure where you get the idea there is no community spirit? I've seen amazing community spirit over the last few months from people I've never met before.

Personally think you're stereotyping the few and thinking that every ones the same. But I'm not surprised at that at all.

Maybe it's you that doesn't have the community spirit so don't see it in others? Just a thought. Maybe belittling everyone isn't the best way to get positive feed back.

[Ceam]

It does amuse me that people of a certain generation recall the halcyon days of their youth spending all day unsupervised half naked at the outdoor pool.

Of course if the pool still existed today those same people wouldn't allow their children or grandchildren to do the same because of the risk posed to them from some people of a certain generation.

So ask yourself which generation has ****ed it all up for today's.

If I could double like this I would.