Is it time to open up ?

[greenmachine]

Is it time to open up and let this covid run its course ? The "cure" is doing more long term damage than the disease. People who are ill TODAY are being denied treatment to protect people who MIGHT become ill tomorrow. In The Champion obituaries this week the average age of the deceased was over 81. No one lives forever. The economic damage is massive. Come december when unemployment is over 4 million and people cant pay their rent or mortgage. Cant buy their kids Christmas presents the suicide rate will go through the roof. My kids and grandkids will be paying for this shambles for the rest of their lives.

[said]

Is it time to open up and let this covid run its course ? The "cure" is doing more long term damage than the disease. People who are ill TODAY are being denied treatment to protect people who MIGHT become ill tomorrow. In The Champion obituaries this week the average age of the deceased was over 81. No one lives forever. The economic damage is massive. Come december when unemployment is over 4 million and people cant pay their rent or mortgage. Cant buy their kids Christmas presents the suicide rate will go through the roof. My kids and grandkids will be paying for this shambles for the rest of their lives.

You need to read this, published in 2010
http://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/pdf...Foundation.pdf

I am given to understand that this 'pandemic' will not end until Sept 2021. Though I am not sure as to how you can forecast how and when any pandemic will last.

[MICK/GILLY]

Is it time to open up and let this covid run its course ? The "cure" is doing more long term damage than the disease. People who are ill TODAY are being denied treatment to protect people who MIGHT become ill tomorrow. In The Champion obituaries this week the average age of the deceased was over 81. No one lives forever. The economic damage is massive. Come december when unemployment is over 4 million and people cant pay their rent or mortgage. Cant buy their kids Christmas presents the suicide rate will go through the roof. My kids and grandkids will be paying for this shambles for the rest of their lives.

People who are ill today are being denied treatment to protect people who might become ill tomorrow?, I don’t think you are right there in fact I believe it’s quite the opposite, how old are you?.
Life is far more important than the economy, jobs, the suicide rate and if you found yourself on a ventilator with dedicated medical staff helping you fight for your life whatever age you were your recovery would be the best present your child could ever get for Christmas.
Personally if I found myself on a ventilator I would kill for one last breath and a chance to live to see the sun. (or howling rain ) come up tomorrow even if I had nothing and had to live in a tent eating dirty carrots I would want to live and so would you .. at any cost.
Ok no one lives forever but there are many active people over 81 that are fit enough to chase you down and beat you with a stick for suggesting old lives don’t matter.
Christ what next

[Hamble]

Not just the old.
Middle aged people are dying.

Treatment and post Covid care would overwhelm the nhs and cost more than losing or subsidising jobs.

The alternative-herd immunity was publicly scorned early on in the pandemic and as now we still do not know if one can catch the virus more than once.

We have to live with the uncertainty and inconvenience and wait for the vaccine.

[Lorquinho]

The term "herd immunity" is reappering again.

Two things to consider.
Covid-19 immunity after infection is an unknown. It could be 6 months or a lifetime.
Herd immunity in the case of other viral diseases such as measles requires an R rate of less than 1 (93-95% immunity within the population to be effective). Covid-19 is no different.

The only way to achieve this level of herd immunity is by vaccination.

[Toodles McGinty]

Is it time to open up and let this covid run its course ? The "cure" is doing more long term damage than the disease. People who are ill TODAY are being denied treatment to protect people who MIGHT become ill tomorrow. In The Champion obituaries this week the average age of the deceased was over 81. No one lives forever. The economic damage is massive. Come december when unemployment is over 4 million and people cant pay their rent or mortgage. Cant buy their kids Christmas presents the suicide rate will go through the roof. My kids and grandkids will be paying for this shambles for the rest of their lives.

According to US statistics, 48.7% of deaths were in people over 75. That leaves more than half of deaths in people younger.

What's your cut off point? Over 80? 70? 60? Do you suggest just going back to normal, no restrictions, no lockdowns? No masks or social distancing?

So just let the disease run its course. How fast will that fill up hospitals? How fast will that put a strain on the NHS? Do you just let them die? And who decides?

I do agree there needs to be a long hard look at how the pandemic is being handled. There are countries that have been able to suppress the outbreak, Taiwan, New Zealand, South Korea for example. Places where the situation has been handled well by the government, and had a responsible reaction from the population.

Sadly, we've had neither. So the elderly should be allowed to die because of an ineffectual government and an irresponsible populace?

My father is 85 this month. He's been out once since this started. He's put no strain on the NHS. He's not been partying in the street after a 10pm curfew. So if we just go back to normal and he catches it, is it OK to just let him die?

Seems strange to me. I take it you aren't nearing your 80th birthday?

[silver fox]

Is it time to open up and let this covid run its course ? The "cure" is doing more long term damage than the disease. People who are ill TODAY are being denied treatment to protect people who MIGHT become ill tomorrow. In The Champion obituaries this week the average age of the deceased was over 81. No one lives forever. The economic damage is massive. Come december when unemployment is over 4 million and people cant pay their rent or mortgage. Cant buy their kids Christmas presents the suicide rate will go through the roof. My kids and grandkids will be paying for this shambles for the rest of their lives.

Don’t forget all these “disposable” people are someone’s parents, grandparents or even greatgrandparents, so it’s fine for them to take their chance and hope for the best, let’s also not forget it’s highly unlikely that these are the ones holding “house” parties and/or spilling out of pubs and bars, congregating in large numbers with no thought for anyone else.

Don’t also forget if it becomes acceptable to write off people solely due to age, your turn will come, no-one grows younger.

Economic damage yes, but the economic damage still to come from Brexit is estimated to be much greater and last for longer.

I agree that residual damage to people with other health problems is also a growing problem, what’s your answer there? don’t admit C-19 patients and let others be treated? this virus presents multiple problems, but just letting it run riot does not look like a good answer either.

[Hamble]

The term "herd immunity" is reappering again.

Two things to consider.
Covid-19 immunity after infection is an unknown. It could be 6 months or a lifetime.
Herd immunity in the case of other viral diseases such as measles requires an R rate of less than 1 (93-95% immunity within the population to be effective). Covid-19 is no different.

The only way to achieve this level of herd immunity is by vaccination.

?
Some people cannot be given a vaccination.

Herd immunity can be achieved by a high number of people previously infected becoming immune.
Add to that those who are protected by vaccination.

Both of the above protect (from infection) the small number who cannot be vaccinated or in cases where the vaccination does not work.

[local]

We do like America have a very susceptible open population so comparisons are pointless with many other countries.

There is a rump of scientists pushing for the herd immunity route, they might be right but I don't know.

Track and trace works better with more servile populations so again not really a help to us, too many don't want to play ball .

We are really waiting for a vaccination or letting it rip which is one hell of a risk.

We already are having some rises in infection rates and the "season" hasn't started yet.

It's going to be a grumpy Christmas.

[said]

?
Some people cannot be given a vaccination.

Herd immunity can be achieved by a high number of people previously infected becoming immune.
Add to that those who are protected by vaccination.

Both of the above protect (from infection) the small number who cannot be vaccinated or in cases where the vaccination does not work.

There are at least four million who will not have the vaccination on religious grounds and another million on dietary preference grounds. Then there will be several million who will refuse it for a number of reasons.

Any vaccination for a particular strain of Coronavirus, will not be effective for subsequent strains of that family of virus.

[SteveandLois]

If anything is spreading the covid-19 it is probably all of the discarded masks that are literally lying everywhere on pavements in the streets,and roads all over the country,because of the idiotic individuals who MAY without knowing,have the virus,but cannot be bothered to dispose of their used masks properly,and then these are getting blown around in public areas,and are then getting washed into the sewers and waterways with the wind and rain..Is it any wonder they cannot control the spreading of the virus ? There should be fines for anyone seen deliberately throwing their used masks onto the ground.....

[Toodles McGinty]

If anything is spreading the covid-19 it is probably all of the discarded masks that are literally lying everywhere on pavements in the streets,and roads all over the country,because of the idiotic individuals who MAY without knowing,have the virus,but cannot be bothered to dispose of their used masks properly,and then these are getting blown around in public areas,and are then getting washed into the sewers and waterways with the wind and rain..Is it any wonder they cannot control the spreading of the virus ? There should be fines for anyone seen deliberately throwing their used masks onto the ground.....

Round of applause for this post ^.

I know some are possibly blown around by the wind, but they are everywhere. Infuriating. How hard is it to put one in a bin after using it?

I don't usually wear the single use masks, but the OH does. He brings them home to cut the loops too, in case they hurt wildlife.

[said]

If anything is spreading the covid-19 it is probably all of the discarded masks that are literally lying everywhere on pavements in the streets,and roads all over the country,because of the idiotic individuals who MAY without knowing,have the virus,but cannot be bothered to dispose of their used masks properly,and then these are getting blown around in public areas,and are then getting washed into the sewers and waterways with the wind and rain..Is it any wonder they cannot control the spreading of the virus ? There should be fines for anyone seen deliberately throwing their used masks onto the ground.....

"A virus will only be active outside the body for a maximum of fifteen minutes, far less if the weather is warm and sunny. A virus needs a cold climate and high humidity and dull days to remain active." Health Clinic,

[Toodles McGinty]

"A virus will only be active outside the body for a maximum of fifteen minutes, far less if the weather is warm and sunny. A virus needs a cold climate and high humidity and dull days to remain active." Health Clinic,

The virus did really well in April and May, when the weather, as I recall, was beautifully warm and sunny.

Trust us to get a virus with a rebellious streak.

[seivad]

"A virus will only be active outside the body for a maximum of fifteen minutes, far less if the weather is warm and sunny. A virus needs a cold climate and high humidity and dull days to remain active." Health Clinic,

'A virus outside the body'. Try being more specific. Which virus and what surface outside the body? You have deliberately omitted this information in your never ending quest to prove that Covid isn't a major concern.

All viruses are different and survive for different lengths of time on specific surfaces. The 15 minutes time in your post refers to the flu virus (surprise, surprise) survival time outside the body on soft surfaces. On a hard surface it lasts a lot longer, but rarely past 24 hours. Not that this matters, because it is not the SARS-Cov-2 virus.