Brexit again

[sandGroundZero]

…and fully indicative of the general incompetence they [i.e. the EU] have demonstrated year after year … — post #323

…demonstrating incompetence is what PM Johnson & and his Cabinet do, daily!

More importantly, it fully undermines the argument that we can only manage as part of a bigger group it's clearly untrue. —post #323

Has anyone on this forum asserted "we can only manage as part of a bigger group"? Not to my recollection. The argument has always been: We will fare better inside the EU's single market — a weighty and pertinent distinction!

The point is some businesses have been caught out by changes in process that is understandable but is not indicative of permanence.
…When you get your jab, get down on your knees and thank those of us capable of thinking beyond the EU — post #323

Regrettably, many of us will have deceased before a measure of equilibrium is restored. At that time it will be for economic historians to assess the extent of damage.

[local]

…demonstrating incompetence is what PM Johnson & and his Cabinet do, daily!

Has anyone on this forum asserted "we can only manage as part of a bigger group"? Not to my recollection. The argument has always been: We will fare better inside the EU's single market — a weighty and pertinent distinction!


Regrettably, many of us will have deceased before a measure of equilibrium is restored. At that time it will be for economic historians to assess the extent of damage.

Many many times we have had the same tired argument trotted out that we won't prosper on our own we are too small and insignificant it's another remoaner scare story.


The EU is of course not just about the single market anymore.

[The PNP]

A) Many many times we have had the same tired argument trotted out that we won't prosper on our own we are too small and insignificant it's another remoaner scare story.


B) The EU is of course not just about the single market anymore.

A) Not much sign of 'prosperity' about lately.....Companies relocating to mainland Europe, unemployment steadily rising, national debt exploding....

B) Imagine the chaos of the alternative, i.e. a non-EU Europe. With food and product standards, differing from State to State. With many different currencies and constantly varying exchange rates. Where needless paperwork, delays and import duties applied at every single border. Trading or moving goods to/from customers and suppliers around the Continent, would be a complete nightmare.

[sandGroundZero]

Many many times we have had the same tired argument trotted out that we won't prosper on our own we are too small and insignificant it's another remoaner scare story. | The EU is of course not just about the single market anymore. — post #327

"too small and insignificant" are your words, local. Only you have posted that.

The UK (supposing for the moment the UK survives intact) will continue to produce, export, import; its residents will make their lives as best they can.
Short term negative impacts will ease as adjustments are made. Governments will strive to generate prosperity. Businesses will form; others will disappear as they do. I expect we will inch our way back into the single market, though of course we will have discarded our former perquisites.
We will be poorer; but over (probably, long) time the UK will have settled into our new place in the world — however still, just offshore of Europe.

[local]

Your right a complete invention of mine all the remoaners were saying we are too big and significant on our own.

Even now with my failing eyesight and Brexit blinkers I could have sworn you wrote we will be poorer and settling into our place off Europe.

The reality must be the losing remoaners have accepted they lost the intellectual argument and are now fully behind the decision to leave

Aren't you at least privately pleased we didn't get involved with the EU vaccine project?

You can of course stay in full remoaner mode on here.

Every day there are bound to be examples such as the Euro Dunce found out about cheese exporting although that certainly can be got round I read.

[The PNP]

Every day there are bound to be examples such as the Euro Dunce found out about cheese exporting although that certainly can be got round I read.

The whole thing is a complete and costly minefield for the many small and medium size businesses who trade into Europe. Twenty jobs lost here, thirty gone there - adding up over time to significant loss for the UK economy....I trust you'll let us know about all the new jobs (excluding the many extra customs personnel) created by leaving.

[sandGroundZero]

post #330

The "remoaners" of your imagination are pretty thin on the ground. Certainly in the Q Local Southport forum you feel the need to 'stand in ' and post what you like to believe of such a view.
Of the forum posters who regret not only the fact of LEAVE but the dogmatic and otherwise cack-handed manner of its execution, I detect sadness and disappointment. You, local seem to resent their alluding to BREXIT consequences, if only to underline their previous predictions.

You harp on about "the EU vaccine project", as if that somehow vindicates your referendum vote. Sorry; that is a trifling reponse in comparison.

[The PNP]

You harp on about "the EU vaccine project", as if that somehow vindicates your referendum vote. Sorry; that is a trifling response in comparison.
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It's a complete red herring, because continued EU membership would not have compelled the UK to have partaken in the EU vaccine project.

[Toodles McGinty]

post #330

The "remoaners" of your imagination are pretty thin on the ground. Certainly in the Q Local Southport forum you feel the need to 'stand in ' and post what you like to believe of such a view.
Of the forum posters who regret not only the fact of LEAVE but the dogmatic and otherwise cack-handed manner of its execution, I detect sadness and disappointment. You, local seem to resent their alluding to BREXIT consequences, if only to underline their previous predictions.

You harp on about "the EU vaccine project", as if that somehow vindicates your referendum vote. Sorry; that is a trifling reponse in comparison.

It is regrettable that much of what was predicted by anyone with an ounce of economic nous is materialising.

I suppose those still in the thrall of the lying hack and his American twin live in an Express echo chamber, where all is good with the world, feel Brexit has gone smoothly (apart from those predicted 'teething troubles') and the Kingdom is more United than ever.

It's been a complete cock up so far. I take no pleasure in Remainers being correct, though I do admit to a little Schadenfreude when the 'Leave' voting farmers and fishermen start screeching they 'didn't vote for this'. Because nobody did. Nobody wanted this.

Well unless you're the Brexiteer equivalent of a besotted 12 year old girl practising writing 'Mrs Donald Trump' and 'Mrs Boris Johnson' on her exercise book.

Perhaps our government might realise what a complete balls up they've made, stop with all the 'English exceptionalism', and start actually working with our partners across the channel, rather than crying the EU are just being terribly beastly to us.

[silver fox]

Your right a complete invention of mine all the remoaners were saying we are too big and significant on our own.

Even now with my failing eyesight and Brexit blinkers I could have sworn you wrote we will be poorer and settling into our place off Europe.

The reality must be the losing remoaners have accepted they lost the intellectual argument and are now fully behind the decision to leave

Aren't you at least privately pleased we didn't get involved with the EU vaccine project?

You can of course stay in full remoaner mode on here.

Every day there are bound to be examples such as the Euro Dunce found out about cheese exporting although that certainly can be got round I read.

Is the procurement of vaccine the only thing you can chirp about? I don’t recall anyone saying that we couldn’t manage without the EU, rather that we were better served as part of a group with the NEIGHBOURS, sure we can trade all over the world, but is to our benefit, or just the dreamy eyed vision of Brexit idealists.

I still see no major advantages in leaving the EU, but there are clearly many disadvantages.

But you and those like minded have stitched us all up and we’ve now got to put up with it, but please show me and many others the positive reasons for creating problems were none previously existed.

[Toodles McGinty]

Is the procurement of vaccine the only thing you can chirp about? I don’t recall anyone saying that we couldn’t manage without the EU, rather that we were better served as part of a group with the NEIGHBOURS, sure we can trade all over the world, but is to our benefit, or just the dreamy eyed vision of Brexit idealists.

I still see no major advantages in leaving the EU, but there are clearly many disadvantages.

But you and those like minded have stitched us all up and we’ve now got to put up with it, but please show me and many others the positive reasons for creating problems were none previously existed.

The vaccine, or its initial rollout a few days before the EU, is about the only positive point those still classing themselves as 'Brexiteers' (not many left) have to make. Regardless of us being perfectly able to roll it out whenever we liked, in or out of the EU. It was only because the Lying Hack's optics have to be good. Then again it's looking like the EU, and pretty much every other country, will actually be vaccinated before us. What a marvellous little country we've become, when the government won't allow full vaccinations before 12 weeks, upon pain of possible dismissal.

So, maybe 4-500,000 fully vaccinated since early December?

Still, let's take the few positives while we can.

[Hamble]

The EU was no economic utopia.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...th-than-brexit

[sandGroundZero]

Pleased to read your post, Toodles McGinty. I've missed your contributions.

[silver fox]

The vaccine, or its initial rollout a few days before the EU, is about the only positive point those still classing themselves as 'Brexiteers' (not many left) have to make. Regardless of us being perfectly able to roll it out whenever we liked, in or out of the EU. It was only because the Lying Hack's optics have to be good. Then again it's looking like the EU, and pretty much every other country, will actually be vaccinated before us. What a marvellous little country we've become, when the government won't allow full vaccinations before 12 weeks, upon pain of possible dismissal.

So, maybe 4-500,000 fully vaccinated since early December?

Still, let's take the few positives while we can.

Welcpme back Toodles, of course all these Brexiteers knew of the pandemic when they voted and decided we would fare better on our own

[Toodles McGinty]

The EU was no economic utopia.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...th-than-brexit

I don't think it ever was. But we did hold a privileged position within it. No Euro (though the pound is pretty weak), no Schengen.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed it is any kind of Utopia, even the most rabid EU advocate can see that 28, now 27 countries couldn't work seamlessly all the time. Even the few NAFTA countries had problems.

But it is advantageous to business. Both SMEs and large companies. I've lost count of the amount of companies tweeting apologies for no longer dealing with us. Plus we're having to dish out millions to keep the likes of Nissan to stay here. Even that isn't enough for companies such as Coca Cola and Berkeley.

Then when the Dept of Trade advises businesses to move to Europe, and the NI Sec. tells the world that Northern Ireland is perfectly placed because it's in the single market, there must be pause for thought.

Not that it holds any relevance now, but the whole problem with the referendum was that very few people actually voted for what we have now. There were so many variations in what Brexit meant to individuals, it should never have come down to 'in or out'. As mentioned, the fishermen are up in arms, the farmers are up in arms. So many people who voted 'out' are now saying 'Yes, but not like this'.

If I could personally pass legislation, apart from abolishing the FPTP system, would be to force politicians to actually tell the truth. Make it a crime to mislead the public in Parliament, or in elections. It'll never happen, but I think democracy could do with a good dose of honesty all round.