A pair of signage bollards have been ripped from their mountings at the junction of Talbot Street and Duke Street .

It is not clear how they were damaged it could have been a vehicle or it could have been vandals.

Who else but the local motoring activist/s would have any motive to do all these acts? First to be removed from the towns new cross-town cycle route, were the NO ENTRY signs adjacent to Hesketh Park. Then several lane-separators vanished on Hoghton St, opposite the YMCA. Now this happens even further along....... What goes next, the shiny new bollard at the Belmont St end?

While not the best of photos, it looks like there's damage and black marks to the bollards, suggesting to me that they've been knocked over by a vehicle of some sort.

I'm guessing that this is most likely by accident caused by lack of driving ability, rather than some sort of sinister conspiracy by motorists!

Originally Posted by Sap33

While not the best of photos, it looks like there's damage and black marks to the bollards, suggesting to me that they've been knocked over by a vehicle of some sort.

I'm guessing that this is most likely by accident caused by lack of driving ability, rather than some sort of sinister conspiracy by motorists!

I would not be too sure about that. Those things received much rightful criticism when first installed and have proved to be challenging since. When traffic is waiting at the junction of Talbot Street to enter on to Duke Street, other traffic is queuing back from the crossing gates and there are cars parked just beyond the bollards. Cyclists (e.g. PNP) are at a great disadvantage as the road has now been made much narrower at that point. Without the bollards, queuing traffic for the crossing fills one lane, while the other lane is temporarily clear, allowing a cyclist to overtake the line of traffic, and reach the cycle clearance at the crossing. The bollards make this action far more precarious.

For traffic moving toward town, vehicles are forced toward the gutter to avoid the bollards, Cars have to wait behind cyclists until a cyclist has cleared that narrow area, before being able to move through. Not a big deal, until there is a long line of traffic from the crossing with drivers who have been frustrated at the gates, having to be slowed down yet again, almost immediately after. Yes, patience is a virtue - but it is not always present in real life situations.

Originally Posted by Sap33

A) While not the best of photos, it looks like there's damage and black marks to the bollards, suggesting to me that they've been knocked over by a vehicle of some sort.

B) I'm guessing that this is most likely by accident caused by lack of driving ability, rather than some sort of sinister conspiracy by motorists!

A) Quite likely....They wouldn't have been an easy pushover for a person on foot, but easy enough to shift by pushing over with a motor vehicle.

B) The one/s who've been turning various 20mph signs at 90degs, removing NO ENTRY signage and 'community concern speed area' boards, would have no qualms about taking out a bollard or two.

Originally Posted by The PNP

B) The one/s who've been turning various 20mph signs at 90degs, removing NO ENTRY signage and 'community concern speed area' boards, would have no qualms about taking out a bollard or two.

Probably the same morons who are defacing and removing all the Covid awareness signage around town.

Originally Posted by said

I would not be too sure about that. Those things received much rightful criticism when first installed and have proved to be challenging since. When traffic is waiting at the junction of Talbot Street to enter on to Duke Street, other traffic is queuing back from the crossing gates and there are cars parked just beyond the bollards. Cyclists (e.g. PNP) are at a great disadvantage as the road has now been made much narrower at that point. Without the bollards, queuing traffic for the crossing fills one lane, while the other lane is temporarily clear, allowing a cyclist to overtake the line of traffic, and reach the cycle clearance at the crossing. The bollards make this action far more precarious.

For traffic moving toward town, vehicles are forced toward the gutter to avoid the bollards, Cars have to wait behind cyclists until a cyclist has cleared that narrow area, before being able to move through. Not a big deal, until there is a long line of traffic from the crossing with drivers who have been frustrated at the gates, having to be slowed down yet again, almost immediately after. Yes, patience is a virtue - but it is not always present in real life situations.

I also cycle, so understand the frustrations of the PNP, but I doubt anyone would deliberately knock these bollards out of the way in a car, due to the potential to damage your car!

Originally Posted by The PNP

A) Quite likely....They wouldn't have been an easy pushover for a person on foot, but easy enough to shift by pushing over with a motor vehicle.

B) The one/s who've been turning various 20mph signs at 90degs, removing NO ENTRY signage and 'community concern speed area' boards, would have no qualms about taking out a bollard or two.

The signs are a different matter, they're easy to spin/remove, but I doubt anyone would deliberately run the risk of damaging their car by knocking over a bollard!

On a point regarding the bollards on Hoghton Street, by their design, they come away easily. They are often found on Chapel Street after the more simple minded seem to think it's a good game to knock them over and throw them round.

Originally Posted by Sap33

A) The signs are a different matter, they're easy to spin/remove, but I doubt anyone would deliberately run the risk of damaging their car by knocking over a bollard!

B) On a point regarding the bollards on Hoghton Street, by their design, they come away easily. They are often found on Chapel Street after the more simple minded seem to think it's a good game to knock them over and throw them round.

A) The large NO ENTRY roundels adjacent to Hesketh Park, would have required step-ladders and a spanner to remove - imo some person/s must have gone prepared and equipped for the task.

Person/s with such a level of determination to get rid of cycle infrastructure, could use a vehicle to uproot keep-left bollards. A rope from a towbar would do it, as would protecting a car bumper with something suitable.

B) Curious how the twist-to-undo pencil-bollards that vanished from Hoghton St, were located all in a row. It's as if someone decided to create a handy parking space on the cycle-lane.

Originally Posted by The PNP

A) The large NO ENTRY roundels adjacent to Hesketh Park, would have required step-ladders and a spanner to remove - imo some person/s must have gone prepared and equipped for the task.

Person/s with such a level of determination to get rid of cycle infrastructure, could use a vehicle to uproot keep-left bollards. A rope from a towbar would do it, as would protecting a car bumper with something suitable.

B) Curious how the twist-to-undo pencil-bollards that vanished from Hoghton St, were located all in a row. It's as if someone decided to create a handy parking space on the cycle-lane.

You really seem to be trying to get motorists backs up against cyclists with your conspiracy theories!

I cycle, a lot, so understand how difficult it can be against some motorists, who seem to think they own the road. However, it seems to me that your inability to come up with anything apart from 'it must be the cycle hating motorists' does nothing more than turn the population against those of us who do cycle!

Originally Posted by Sap33

You really seem to be trying to get motorists backs up against cyclists with your conspiracy theories!

I cycle, a lot, so understand how difficult it can be against some motorists, who seem to think they own the road. However, it seems to me that your inability to come up with anything apart from 'it must be the cycle hating motorists' does nothing more than turn the population against those of us who do cycle!

You don't know the half of it mate....Ever since the first 20mph limits were introduced several years ago, this type of stuff has been happening both in Southport and the adjacent part of W Lancs.

First, there was the widespread deliberate sideways-turning of 20mph roundels in the area. Which more recently included the complete uprooting of a 20mph pole in Burscough. A number of cycle-route direction signs on the Moss were deliberately rotated 180degs, apparently to direct riders away from Southport. Yellow 'community concern speed area' boards are being turned/removed/vandalised. One was even folded up concertina-style to read just: 'speed'. 'Police speed check area' boards have been removed. Other curious events include, roadworks give-way warning signage in a remote location being repeatedly interfered with.....

Now, an occasional incident could be put down to kids, the wind, or even bad driving. But we have here what resembles a clear pattern. Someone who drives in the area, doesn't agree with lower speed-limits and apparently also has it in for cyclists. The latest sabotage of this new cycle route, is only the tip of that iceberg.

Originally Posted by The PNP

You don't know the half of it mate....Ever since the first 20mph limits were introduced several years ago, this type of stuff has been happening both in Southport and the adjacent part of W Lancs.

First, there was the widespread deliberate sideways-turning of 20mph roundels in the area. Which more recently included the complete uprooting of a 20mph pole in Burscough. A number of cycle-route direction signs on the Moss were deliberately rotated 180degs, apparently to direct riders away from Southport. Yellow 'community concern speed area' boards are being turned/removed/vandalised. One was even folded up concertina-style to read just: 'speed'. 'Police speed check area' boards have been removed. Other curious events include, roadworks give-way warning signage in a remote location being repeatedly interfered with.....

Now, an occasional incident could be put down to kids, the wind, or even bad driving. But we have here what resembles a clear pattern. Someone who drives in the area, doesn't agree with lower speed-limits and apparently also has it in for cyclists. The latest sabotage of this new cycle route, is only the tip of that iceberg.

I do know the half of it! The half that you seem to either not know, or choose to ignore is that your attitude to motorists gets peoples backs up, which does no one any favours!
I happen to agree with a lot that you post, but your inability to see anything other than your own agenda gets peoples backs up, when if you want to get things done, you need to garner support.

Originally Posted by Sap33

A) I do know the half of it! The half that you seem to either not know, or choose to ignore is that your attitude to motorists gets peoples backs up, which does no one any favours!

B) I happen to agree with a lot that you post, but your inability to see anything other than your own agenda gets peoples backs up, when if you want to get things done, you need to garner support.

A) I have respect for all road-users - including motorists. I keep well into the side (ride just 1m from kerb), don't run red lights, or hurl abuse/make gestures. When 'buzzed', I don't bang on cars or snap wing mirrors. I give clear hand signals, use the cyclists 'unicorn' box at junctions....If anyone has an attitude, it's a particular segment of the motoring fraternity, who skim dangerously past us riders as if we don't exist!

B) The 'agenda' as I see it, is to make progress towards a comprehensive network of safe traffic-free cycle routes, that everyone who wants to can use. If you expect to receive support for that from motorists, you'll wait a very long time. Because, as can be seen from their indignant reaction to any new piece of cycle infrastructure - motorists want all the tarmac for themselves.

Originally Posted by The PNP

A) I have respect for all road-users - including motorists. I keep well into the side (ride just 1m from kerb), don't run red lights, or hurl abuse/make gestures. When 'buzzed', I don't bang on cars or snap wing mirrors. I give clear hand signals, use the cyclists 'unicorn' box at junctions....If anyone has an attitude, it's a particular segment of the motoring fraternity!

B) The 'agenda' as I see it, is to make progress towards a comprehensive network of safe traffic-free cycle routes, that everyone who wants to can use. If you expect to receive support for that from motorists, you'll wait a very long time. Because, as can be seen from their indignant reaction to any new piece of cycle infrastructure - motorists want all the tarmac for themselves.

You're completely missing my point! Yes you may respect motorists as you say in point one, but your comments come across in a way that gets peoples backs up, INCLUDING cyclists!!!

I would love to have a comprehensive cycle network, but there's only so much funding available. Getting support from motorists is hard as it is, but the way you're going, you're going to loose the support of cyclists as well.
Wind in the extremist views that cyclists can do no wrong and accept that somethings, like these bollards is highly likely not a plot against cyclists. I cycle more than I drive and support SOME of the cycle schemes (and will argue the toss with anyone in support of them and likewise will say if I don't).

Originally Posted by Sap33

A) Wind in the extremist views that cyclists can do no wrong

B) and accept that somethings, like these bollards is highly likely not a plot against cyclists.

C) I cycle more than I drive and support SOME of the cycle schemes (and will argue the toss with anyone in support of them and likewise will say if I don't).

A) I don't deny a percentage of cyclists break the rules, and never have disputed that. Some people are disposed to break rules, whatever they drive or ride, that is simply human nature. What is an indisputable fact (when you look at the official figures) is by far the greater majority of bike v car accidents are the motorists fault.

B) Had this incident happened in isolation, I wouldn't have given it a second thought. After all, no normal person would deliberately go out of their way to demolish two new bollards, it would make no sense.....Same first time I noticed a 20mph roundel twisted 90degs, I thought it had been loose and got blown round, or a truck must have accidentally caught it. But then I noticed another, then another, in particular the big 20mph ones at entrances to zones.

I came to the inescapable conclusion it was being done deliberately, by motorist/s who disagreed with 20mph zones. I believe doing so renders a zone unenforceable, since any motorist caught speeding can claim the signage is defective....The removal of NO ENTRY plates at the North entrance to this cycle route is another obvious example of motorist activist/s actions. Don't like a new cycle route? Just remove the signage and drive right through - duh!

C) Having lived/cycled full time in NL for a couple of years, I too am aware of the laughable shortcomings in some UK cycle infrastructure. There are many instances where it could have been done much better. For examples of best practice, I strongly suggest you take an in-depth look at this unique blog site: http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com...bel/the%20grid